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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1171
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Posted - 2013.08.12 09:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean if I get revived by a Logi, Im searching for you guys out there and have in the last few rounds seen some very good logi's, why do I still get a death against my record even if they res me?
That doesn't make sense to me. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
325
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Posted - 2013.08.12 09:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Right! I mean I was never dead you know. My body lost a lot of blood, but the nanites revived me. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
1157
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Posted - 2013.08.12 09:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah. It makes me reluctant to revive people 'cause I feel even more guilty knowing I just gave them two deaths instead of one by reviving them, if they go and die as soon as I pick them up. Death should be counted when the clone is lost, ie. when the mercenary is unable to be revived.
Sometimes people tell me not to revive them because they don't want to risk dying again. This wouldn't happen as often if the mechanic was changed to perhaps what I suggest above.
Also, all the kitten-talking about KDR doesn't help, either. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1173
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Posted - 2013.08.12 09:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Yeah. It makes me reluctant to revive people 'cause I feel even more guilty knowing I just gave them two deaths instead of one by reviving them, if they go and die as soon as I pick them up. Death should be counted when the clone is lost, ie. when the mercenary is unable to be revived.
Sometimes people tell me not to revive them because they don't want to risk dying again. This wouldn't happen as often if the mechanic was changed to perhaps what I suggest above.
Also, all the kitten-talking about KDR doesn't help, either. I don't really care about my over all KD but I do like to think I achieve something in game when I get a good KD.... I'd much rather with, but as soon as I get more that say 7 or so deaths without personally or the team having achieved anything I'm hugely reluctant to put the effort in for the team |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
27
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Posted - 2013.08.12 11:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
the logic is, your health has reached Zero. Once zero has been reached you are dead, the nanites are there to repair the dead cells/tissue/armor it doesnt prevent your death, nor does it erase the past |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1175
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:the logic is, your health has reached Zero. Once zero has been reached you are dead, the nanites are there to repair the dead cells/tissue/armor it doesnt prevent your death, nor does it erase the past
That really doesn't seem logical to me.... but since this is a game lets ignore that.
But seriously why don't they just use and established system like the BF3 model.... I mean all they have are defribs.... |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
96
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:the logic is, your health has reached Zero. Once zero has been reached you are dead, the nanites are there to repair the dead cells/tissue/armor it doesnt prevent your death, nor does it erase the past The health bars represent shields and armor, so no, you're not dead. You're mortally wounded, but not dead. |
Syeven Reed
The Vanguardians
0
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:the logic is, your health has reached Zero. Once zero has been reached you are dead, the nanites are there to repair the dead cells/tissue/armor it doesnt prevent your death, nor does it erase the past At the moment of death our minds are transported to a new clone. As this doesn't happen when were revived, we are are not yet dead and should not be penalised for it. |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
34
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:the logic is, your health has reached Zero. Once zero has been reached you are dead, the nanites are there to repair the dead cells/tissue/armor it doesnt prevent your death, nor does it erase the past
i have a very much simplified answer.
because it count's as a kill. the enemy gets the kill on you, you have been killed, when you are killed you are dead.
though i agree with all of what your saying, but honestly there are many things CCP has to work on before they can consider this going into a possible update. |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
28
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
i love it, all sorts of randoms quoting me
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RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
438
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Agreed on this point. Too many times I have had two or three deaths that could have been prevented if the logi waited for the area to clear a little and revive me in a safer zone.
99% of the time I double tap anyway, got to make sure that nobody revives those bastards. |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion
247
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
KD/R is a statistic
if a merc is defeated, they are defeated. It doesnt matter that you got back up again, the ref counted to to five and you got back up, but the judges are still keeping count. |
King Trigger
DUST University Ivy League
12
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
I never even thought about that, but OP, you have a good point. I typically don't care much about my KDR, but I do look at my deaths during a match sometimes as an indicator of how many suits I've used, and that kind of thing...but I guess deaths doesn't really have a direct correlation to deaths anyway, if you get revived a lot. Right?
Although, it could definitely be argued that WP's awarded should change too, if K/D changes. If downs awarded less WP or no WP, there would be a lot less opportunities to get revived, I'd imagine. Maybe they should just leave it alone and players being aware of it is enough. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
406
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would like that the death does not count if you are revived, but the killer should get -50wp or not get wp till the death is complete. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1037
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Posted - 2013.08.12 13:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Yeah. It makes me reluctant to revive people 'cause I feel even more guilty knowing I just gave them two deaths instead of one by reviving them, if they go and die as soon as I pick them up. Death should be counted when the clone is lost, ie. when the mercenary is unable to be revived.
Sometimes people tell me not to revive them because they don't want to risk dying again. This wouldn't happen as often if the mechanic was changed to perhaps what I suggest above.
Also, all the kitten-talking about KDR doesn't help, either.
When somebody dies stand in front, or in the direction of fire, of their body as soon as you stick the needle, the person who shot them will be reluctant to shoot you and instead seek the easy kill behind you. Most of the people I revive don't die twice. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1037
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 13:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:KD/R is a statistic
if a merc is defeated, they are defeated. It doesnt matter that you got back up again, the ref counted to to five and you got back up, but the judges are still keeping count.
If that's the case why don't we lose clones. A lot of MMOs and FPS were there is a downed state system have a times died, and a times downed counter. We should get these. |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
567
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Posted - 2013.08.12 13:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah, we have this post show up every time we get a new batch of Berries in. You know, New Berries.
Kills count and Deaths count.
Clones count as well but differently. If your clone gets revived the team doesn't burn down a clone for the game Win/Loss calculation.
That is why they are different. The death is your performance (or not) on the battlefield. The clone count is the result of not only your team but the effectiveness of your support staff (aka Logi Bros).
Win/Loss is based MCC health and clone counts. They are not based on Kills or Deaths.
Welcome. It is different down here in the DUST. Adjust.
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3063
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I mean if I get revived by a Logi, Im searching for you guys out there and have in the last few rounds seen some very good logi's, why do I still get a death against my record even if they res me?
That doesn't make sense to me. Because if they don't, the "skilled" players won't have good K/Ds and will ***** down the forums. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
161
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
I agree it shouldnt count as a death that way I wont be pissed off when random people revive me and I have low health
stupid militia nanite injectors -_- |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
99
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:That is why they are different. The death is your performance (or not) on the battlefield. Your performance would be conveyed just as well if there was a separate counter to keep track of how many times you were downed. It simply doesn't make sense that being downed counts as a death. Also, the way the death statistic currently works makes it difficult to calculate ISK efficiency. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1445
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Current "KDR" is so vague it's effectively a meaningless, or at least useless, stat.
Making "KDR" into Kills, downed ratio, keeping all earnings on the part of the opposing side exactly as they are currently and adding a new counter which records actual deaths aka the loss of a clone (because we're immortal after all there are no actual deaths here) would be a vast improvement. Further such stat tracking should account for revives to provide a listing of the net clone loss or gain you caused your team.
People get so angry in pubs because they're picked up several times and die shortly after but they've still only lost the team 1 clone, and if they do survive or accomplish anything before going back down the team is better off than if they'd just bleed out right away. Still the broken current form of KDR misleads them into thinking that those "deaths" matter and becoming angry when their, tactically less effective, choice to insta bleed isn't able to be acted upon.
Current KDR is a bad stat and it should feel bad.
0.02 ISK Cross |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
254
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Posted - 2013.08.12 15:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Soo... have a death and a wounded counter? Being wounded would still grand full WP? I see nothing wrong with this.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
565
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Posted - 2013.08.12 15:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Death should count when you respawn.
It's a game, guys.
Downs, and deaths are different things |
Kain Spero
Spero Escrow Services
1924
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Posted - 2013.08.12 15:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Soo... have a death and a wounded counter? Being wounded would still grand full WP? I see nothing wrong with this.
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .
Maybe some extra WP for terminating a clone. Personally I don't see an issue with a death not counting until a clone is terminated, but I do see some of the potential statistical issues. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
60
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Posted - 2013.08.12 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Your "Death" is merely a statistic which represents your fighting ability (KDR). You losing a fight against one, or numerous opponents is reflected in this. You being revived does not change the fact that you lost in a conflict. The Revive does however save clones, which is far more important than KDR.
The death is just a statistic which due to revives only being available by teammates means that your death is on your hands and personnel file. And don't say that it is a team game and the revive should take away a death due to team mechanics. Your KDR is not a team mechanic, only a standard which YOU are beholden to as a measure of excellence.
The only thing a TEAM is measured up to is a Win: Loss Ratio, which the revives do count towards too in terms of mitigating a loss. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1190
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
King Trigger wrote:I never even thought about that, but OP, you have a good point. I typically don't care much about my KDR, but I do look at my deaths during a match sometimes as an indicator of how many suits I've used, and that kind of thing...but I guess deaths doesn't really have a direct correlation to deaths anyway, if you get revived a lot. Right?
Although, it could definitely be argued that WP's awarded should change too, if K/D changes. If downs awarded less WP or no WP, there would be a lot less opportunities to get revived, I'd imagine. Maybe they should just leave it alone and players being aware of it is enough. My idea for Dust would honestly be this.
Suits cost the original 325K ISK they were supposed to, where revives count as non deaths, this way everyone would love logi's who come to save them.
They are not only saving their teams stats, but ISK, and suits. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
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Posted - 2013.08.12 23:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I mean if I get revived by a Logi, Im searching for you guys out there and have in the last few rounds seen some very good logi's, why do I still get a death against my record even if they res me?
That doesn't make sense to me.
Because the guy that killed you has a Kill? maybe..?
You should be grateful you dont loose you Dropsuit...and dont need to spawn again...and travel to the battle area again...
I dont know i think this is the purpose....
I mean if i kill you, and you get revived, i would have 1 kill and you NO deaths? Not only it would mess up the ''cloning out'' part of the game, but THAT really desnt make sense to me bruh... |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1190
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:True Adamance wrote:I mean if I get revived by a Logi, Im searching for you guys out there and have in the last few rounds seen some very good logi's, why do I still get a death against my record even if they res me?
That doesn't make sense to me. Because the guy that killed you has a Kill? maybe..? You should be grateful you dont loose you Dropsuit...and dont need to spawn again...and travel to the battle area again... I dont know i think this is the purpose.... I mean if i kill you, and you get revived, i would have 1 kill and you NO deaths? Not only it would mess up the ''cloning out'' part of the game, but THAT really desnt make sense to me bruh... He can get his kill but that doesn't mean you have to take the death since you aren't dead. |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
101
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:I mean if i kill you, and you get revived, i would have 1 kill and you NO deaths? Adding a counter to keep track of how many players you downed would fix that. You'd still get 50 points, but the kill would only be awarded upon clone death. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
506
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
So let me get this straight.
I kill someone. I get 50sp and a kill. Then the enemy gets revived and he has NO deaths and the Clone count remains the same.
IF IT STILL counts as a kill for me im ok with it , i guess. |
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