DUST Search - The mass driver is out of control.

Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

ZDub 303 wrote:

Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period.

This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs.

Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced.

Then how would you go about fixing explosives?

Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary.

At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full.

Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so.

If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task.

I can agree with all of this, and it'd be cool if it was implemented. Unfortunately it seems like this is more in depth/time consuming of a fix than CCP is willing to do, as they make quick passes on things racing to fix the multitude of problems in the game.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
RevoL Frog The Generals EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.08.07 21:56:00 - [1] - Quote CCP address this problem; The sooner the better.
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1316	Posted - 2013.08.07 21:57:00 - [2] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: CCP address this problem; The sooner the better. It's fine.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 146	Posted - 2013.08.07 21:58:00 - [3] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: CCP address this problem; The sooner the better. y
xSaloLx GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 102	Posted - 2013.08.07 21:58:00 - [4] - Quote And their response.
Carter Raynor The Generals EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:00:00 - [5] - Quote Reduce the blast radius.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:00:00 - [6] - Quote Sigh a other thread. Well I guess it will get nerfed pathetic lol. Well at least I still have my assault rifle. That won't ever get nerfed. Or if I use my nova knife hmm. That could get nerfed. Shall I raise the level of my laser rifle? Hmmm nah would get nerfed too.
Bleeding Knight Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:20:00 - [7] - Quote Shields r scary to massholes. Hint hint.hint.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 135	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:21:00 - [8] - Quote Bleeding Knight wrote: Shields r scary to massholes. Hint hint.hint. Tactics are scary to people. Hint hint
Cosgar ParagonX 3962	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:22:00 - [9] - Quote I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial.
Viktor Zokas 187. 143	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:23:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Or spamming noob tubes, which ever you fancy.

Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 114	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:23:00 - [11] - Quote Is it really? I understand its popularity has increased which suggests it's usable again. Not seen this "out of control" of which you speak, but maybe I've been lucky and mostly encountered ****** MD-users.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1531	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:25:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out explosives.
Cosgar ParagonX 3962	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:26:00 - [13] - Quote Viktor Zokas wrote: Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Or spamming noob tubes, which ever you fancy. Only noob tubes I've seen are contact grenades. We don't have a M203 attachment for the AR. At least not since early alpha...
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 7	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:29:00 - [14] - Quote lol Salo. But seriously these weapons require SKILL to use. They can be OP at times, but maybe you should try using them and find out why other people do.
Cosgar ParagonX 3970	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:29:00 - [15] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1532	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:33:00 - [16] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP no, they can't figure out explosives. I'm a shield tanker and MDs destroy me. Why? because of lulz flux grenades which are halfway to unavoidable in any sort of CQC near an objective. You can't even run because an allotek with strip 100% of shields off of anything within 7.2m. Its a cheap iwin tactic akin to flaylock spam, taking advantage of explosives in CQC situations where projectile weaponry suffers from poor hit detection.
J Lav Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 162	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:35:00 - [17] - Quote Dear OP, Before making conclusive comments, passing judgement on aspects of the game, please follow the following procedure: 1. Try the weapon/equipment yourself for 1 full 24 hours of gaming. 2. Provide validated arguments with support for your position 3. Make a concise report for the staff at CCP to read, summarizing your points. Thank you, Now someone please lock this thread as it is going nowhere.
xLTShinySidesx Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 559	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:35:00 - [18] - Quote I've been killed by one like twice since it's buff, it doesn't seem op to me but I haven't used one yet so idk... I will say though, the weapon has multiple reasons why it makes it seem like a op weapon. 1. The sound of that thing is mean as **** 2. The way it gives damage in a 360 degree radius is confusing and leaves the recipient not knowing where it's coming from most of the time. 3. It has a lot of rounds which makes the multiple shots in a small time frame seem overwhelming. Combine all of these and it will leave a person searching for cover, but the fact that half the time you can't tell where they're shooting from makes cover hard to get. For my military guys, this is a great OODA loop weapon causing a mass (pun intended) amount of confusion using sight sound and movement. Perhaps the weapon isn't op but a great weapon of confusion and area lockdown. I'll give it a try tonight and see what the fuss is about ;)
Cosgar ParagonX 3970	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:35:00 - [19] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP no, they can't figure out explosives. I'm a shield tanker and MDs destroy me. Why? because of lulz flux grenades which are halfway to unavoidable in any sort of CQC near an objective. You can't even run because an allotek with strip 100% of shields off of anything within 7.2m. Its a cheap iwin tactic akin to flaylock spam, taking advantage of explosives in CQC situations where non-explosive weaponry suffers from poor hit detection. So a weapon that requires a certain grenade is OP now? That's called synergy, just like people that use ScRs and SMGs.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 216	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:36:00 - [20] - Quote Bleeding Knight wrote: Shields r scary to massholes. Hint hint.hint. The hell you scared for?you using flux grenades

howard sanchez spliff's channel 642	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:36:00 - [21] - Quote ZDub, you've been around long enough to have grown out of so much stupid. Try harder to grow out of your stupid!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 370	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:37:00 - [22] - Quote HEY GUESS WHAT How about we wait till 1.4 when aiming and lasers are fixed till we keep bitching about mass drivers.... I have used mass drivers since.... ** its been to long I can't remember.. but when you console kiddies actually had aim assist and lasers were effective MDs were far and few between... Oh yeah and MASSDRIVERS WERE ACTUALLY OP BACK THEN....**
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1532	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:40:00 - [23] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP no, they can't figure out explosives. I'm a shield tanker and MDs destroy me. Why? because of lulz flux grenades which are halfway to unavoidable in any sort of CQC near an objective. You can't even run because an allotek with strip 100% of shields off of anything within 7.2m. Its a cheap iwin tactic akin to flaylock spam, taking advantage of explosives in CQC situations where non-explosive weaponry suffers from poor hit detection. So a weapon that requires a certain grenade is OP now? That's called synergy, just like people that use ScRs and SMGs. Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period. This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs. Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced.
Criteria Shipment Baynaer Space Command The Ditanian Alliance 43	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:44:00 - [24] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: CCP address this problem; The sooner the better. I dont see a problem. I dodge and weave so the mass driver wont hit me. Im tellin' ya, the people that use mass drivers suck hard at aiming
Cosgar ParagonX 3974	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:46:00 - [25] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period. This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs. Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced. Then how would you go about fixing explosives?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1474	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:55:00 - [26] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: CCP address this problem; The sooner the better. Hail AR 514
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1532	Posted - 2013.08.07 22:55:00 - [27] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period. This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs. Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced. Then how would you go about fixing explosives? Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary. At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full. Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so. If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task.
Aquinarius Zoltanus 0uter.Heaven EoN. 259	Posted - 2013.08.07 23:09:00 - [28] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period. This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs. Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced. Then how would you go about fixing explosives? Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary. At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full. Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so. If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task. I can agree with all of this, and it'd be cool if it was implemented. Unfortunately it seems like this is more in depth/time consuming of a fix than CCP is willing to do, as they make quick passes on things racing to fix the multitude of problems in the game.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 460	Posted - 2013.08.07 23:14:00 - [29] - Quote xSaloLx wrote: And their response. I was about to bost -surprisingly- in before any evetard's "HTFU". Then i clicked there
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1532	Posted - 2013.08.07 23:15:00 - [30] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period. This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs. Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced. Then how would you go about fixing explosives? Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary. At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full. Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so. If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task. I can agree with all of this, and it'd be cool if it was implemented. Unfortunately it seems like this is more in depth/time consuming of a fix than CCP is willing to do, as they make quick passes on things racing to fix the multitude of problems in the game. This isn't something that would be a nifty feature to have. Its a core mechanics problem almost as important as aiming. This should be another priority fix and shouldn't take them that long. They already have a system in place to calculate damage fall off, you can see it in PC when you're trying to dodge all of the grenade spam, there is some damage fall off on explosives but its not nearly enough. And after reworking the splash damage, I would be all for increased MD ammo capacity and possibly lowering their reload time a little to compensate.



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