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ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial.
Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction!
MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out explosives. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP
no, they can't figure out explosives.
I'm a shield tanker and MDs destroy me. Why? because of lulz flux grenades which are halfway to unavoidable in any sort of CQC near an objective.
You can't even run because an allotek with strip 100% of shields off of anything within 7.2m. Its a cheap iwin tactic akin to flaylock spam, taking advantage of explosives in CQC situations where projectile weaponry suffers from poor hit detection. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:I know this is a strange concept, but you could always try retreating and attacking from a different direction. That's what the MD is designed for- area denial. Yeah, MDs can only shoot in one area and can't turn and fire in a new direction! MDs are a problem (not too noticeable yet but lets give it a few more weeks of SP accrual). Why? because they are an explosive... and CCP can't figure out armor. FYP no, they can't figure out explosives. I'm a shield tanker and MDs destroy me. Why? because of lulz flux grenades which are halfway to unavoidable in any sort of CQC near an objective. You can't even run because an allotek with strip 100% of shields off of anything within 7.2m. Its a cheap iwin tactic akin to flaylock spam, taking advantage of explosives in CQC situations where non-explosive weaponry suffers from poor hit detection. So a weapon that requires a certain grenade is OP now? That's called synergy, just like people that use ScRs and SMGs.
Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period.
This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs.
Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 22:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:
Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period.
This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs.
Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced.
Then how would you go about fixing explosives?
Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary.
At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full.
Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so.
If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:
Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period.
This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs.
Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced.
Then how would you go about fixing explosives? Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary. At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full. Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so. If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task. I can agree with all of this, and it'd be cool if it was implemented. Unfortunately it seems like this is more in depth/time consuming of a fix than CCP is willing to do, as they make quick passes on things racing to fix the multitude of problems in the game.
This isn't something that would be a nifty feature to have. Its a core mechanics problem almost as important as aiming. This should be another priority fix and shouldn't take them that long. They already have a system in place to calculate damage fall off, you can see it in PC when you're trying to dodge all of the grenade spam, there is some damage fall off on explosives but its not nearly enough.
And after reworking the splash damage, I would be all for increased MD ammo capacity and possibly lowering their reload time a little to compensate. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:
Sure I'm for complimentary weaponry and synergy but weapons that can kill anything within 7.2m with almost no effort is bad mechanics. Explosives are done poorly in this game and are not balanced, period.
This applies to MDs, Flaylocks, Missile Turrets, grenades, and REs.
Some are nerfed into uselessness and others are OP, but in the end explosives are not balanced.
Then how would you go about fixing explosives? Logarithmic damage fall off throughout the blast radius, removing this so called 'direct damage' and adjusting profiles and splash radius as necessary. At the edge of the 7.2m blast radius grenades should be doing minimal damage, not almost full. Also, flux grenades should have their values lowered around 60% or so. If an anti shield AV grenade is truly needed, then one should be put into the game and more suited to the task. Even though it'd be a PITA to code, I would agree with the splash scaling. But splash radius would need a buff for the sake of things like missiles, rails, and of course the MD. Damage or splash, but something to compensate. If you nerf fluxes, shields aren't going to have a real hard counter outside of the ScR and SP, you have to be careful with that. Shields are already OP already. You don't want to widen the shield > armor gap more than it already is.
It shouldn't be that hard to code, they have damage profiles for hitscan weaponry, its the same principle.
Also... Im talking about lowering fluxes from 1800 damage to 800 damage... there is no 'overnerf' here. They would still counter shields just fine, but you wouldn't see and immediate striping of all shields from unavoidable precooked flux nades.
Same goes for the 7.2m radius of 1 shot death that the core locus does, how people aren't complaining about that yet is still surprising. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jastad wrote:ZDub 303 wrote: It shouldn't be that hard to code, they have damage profiles for hitscan weaponry, its the same principle.
Also... Im talking about lowering fluxes from 1800 damage to 800 damage... there is no 'overnerf' here. They would still counter shields just fine, but you wouldn't see and immediate striping of all shields from unavoidable precooked flux nades.
Same goes for the 7.2m radius of 1 shot death that the core locus does, how people aren't complaining about that yet is still surprising. Oh armor tankers complain a lot from core locus :) Zdub the problem in what you say is the " Shield tanking bug" otherwise your idea could be correct.
I don't know what the 'shield tanking bug' is.
But anyways, you guys can call me re tarded and saying I have no clue and all I want is for non-ARs to be nerfed into the ground blah blah, but these things are real issues to gameplay. These are things that a lot of high level PC players know are OP and abuse like crazy in order to 'get the win'.
We all noticed the flaylock as an immediate problem in PC and sure enough it eventually trickled into pubs as time went on.
I'm not a complete idiot, I can just see these imbalanced weapons before most others do due to the nature of the game mode I play. I was told I was an idiot when I first called out the Flaylock with Xero and not two weeks later the forums were flooded with tears about how flaylocks made it into pubs and they were clearly imbalanced. I can see the beginnings of this exact same cycle with the MD, and here we have people calling me an idiot who has no clue what he's talking about. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jastad wrote:The shield tanking bug is as simple as deadly. If you try Hitting a shield tanker the "count" to make the shield come up start and dont reset from every shot taken.
So if you don't take dmg for a fraction shield start goin up again. The only way is to empty the shield bar and sometimes even that is not enough,because regen start faster.
in an old thread CCP say that every bullet that hit need to reset the counter. Right now this isn't working as intended
Yeah okay i see what you're saying. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.07 23:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Cosgar wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Sigh a other thread. Well I guess it will get nerfed pathetic lol. Well at least I still have my assault rifle. That won't ever get nerfed. Or if I use my nova knife hmm. That could get nerfed. Shall I raise the level of my laser rifle? Hmmm nah would get nerfed too. You aren't good with AR tho... I like how being good with a hitscan weapon in a video game is something people like to hold over other people's heads. If your aim is so good, try using the Allotek burst AR. It's the only other AR variant that doesn't suck, but you need "good aim" for it. I am good with MD too. You make it out like this crappy I win button gun takes skill The proof is there scrub. So a weapon that isn't an AR gets a bunch of kills and it's suddenly an "I win button?" Double standard?
No he's saying its a crappy iwin button through his personal experience. You asked people to try it before rendering judgement, he tried it, he pwned with it, and now he's telling you its still a crappy iwin button. |
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