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Kamarri Amarr
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 18:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The current SP system is frustrating.
I understand that it is almost impossible to catch the vets, but I should at least be given the chance. By resetting the SP cap every week, there will forever be a gap between myself & the guys who have been here since the beginning.
To paint a picture: If the vets cap out every week, & I cap out every week, I will never catch them & they will always have the advantage SP-wise (skill-wise is a completely different monster).
So I propose that in the stead of the current system, there should be a rollover system. To clarify, when a new player enters the EVE universe, weekly SP caps from week one (whenever the game was released) until now should be summed and take the place of the SP cap. Once this "total" cap has been reached, then & only then would you have the 190k weekly SP cap. To further clarify, if a player misses a week or two for whatever reason, the SP should rollover to the following week so that the player has the chance to gain all the SP that they missed out on.
I read on one of the DEV blogs (or maybe it was a DEV post) that the weekly SP cap was to keep the gap between the hardcore players & the normal players minimal. With that being said, the current system feeds the very problem that you're attempting to avoid. The hardcore players are hardcore & will therefore cap every week. If you don't give the rest of the community a chance to catch these players, then there will always be a gap!
Keep in mind that with this new system, new players don't get any kind of advantage over old players so everyone should remain happy. Furthermore, because of the current system, I've noticed that the there is a negative trend concerning player numbers on a weekly basis (ie. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust). I believe that the rollover system will fix this, as players who have not reached the "total" cap will continue to grind until they do. This is because there are many more players who joined months into the games release rather than players who began when it was first released.
I would just like to say that I love this game & hope that it sees a bright future, BUT FIX THE SP SYSTEM!
TL;DR = IMPLEMENT A ROLLOVER SP SYSTEM |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
179
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
People who play longer have more SP. Big ******* deal. At some point you start speccing into a second suit for example anyways. Something that doesn't give you an advantage anymore. It's just the same like in Eve Online. You don't use all your skills all the time. So at some point you've catched up. |
Kamarri Amarr
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 19:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
I appreciate you taking the time to read my post... But your comment isn't constructive in the least bit. You haven't pointed out one thing that might possibly be wrong (or right) with my suggestion. Don't post for no reason bro. You're just making the topic unnecessarily long.
For everyone else, please be constructive: If you hate it, give valid reasons as to why it isn't feasible. If you like it, hit the like button. If you like it, but for another reason, add to the post.
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RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
78
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Posted - 2013.08.06 19:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dude is just mad because he doesn't want anyone to have protosuits, modules, core upgrades, weapons and proficiencies. He wants a fresh batch of noobs to protostomp every week until his 15million SP gap turns into a 30million SP gap before the game is no longer supported. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
180
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
No, I just think there's no reason to turn everything around that works pretty good in Eve Online. Actually even I would profit from a system like this. But there's no need at all. 3 months and you can use protogear.
Also protostomping is barely there. It's corp squads you lose against. Gear has barely anything to do with it. |
Stands Alone
Ultramarine Corp
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
i do think there should be a rollover system. but if you dont use it, you lose.. some of it lol
maybe rollover SP at the end of each week should be cut by 40-50% or something... that way you dont have some dude not play for like 2 and a half weeks log on play everyday for a week, hit the cap and get the same SP as people who play on a daily basis, then log off for 2 and a half more weeks...
idk.. just some thoughts... i dont think that some dude that plays one week out of the month should be able to catch up to the everyday players. so there should be a penalty for not playing weekly |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kamarri Amarr wrote:I appreciate you taking the time to read my post... But your comment isn't constructive in the least bit. You haven't pointed out one thing that might possibly be wrong (or right) with my suggestion. Don't post for no reason bro. You're just making the topic unnecessarily long.
For everyone else, please be constructive: If you hate it, give valid reasons as to why it isn't feasible. If you like it, hit the like button. If you like it, but for another reason, add to the post.
Because I don't think there's anything right with it. I gave reasons why it's unnnecessary to do this. You just don't like them. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
543
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kamarri Amarr wrote: To paint a picture: If the vets cap out every week, & I cap out every week, I will never catch them & they will always have the advantage SP-wise (skill-wise is a completely different monster).
The SP system is based on diminishing returns. You either spec larger and larger amounts of SP into the same stuff for smaller and smaller benefits, or you start skilling up something else entirely. Sooner or later the vet will start skilling something else entirely, the alternative is they're paying a monstrous opportunity cost for absolutely negligible benefit.
Not that I think a rollover system is a bad idea though... |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
79
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 20:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:No, I just think there's no reason to turn everything around that works pretty good in Eve Online. Actually even I would profit from a system like this. But there's no need at all. 3 months and you can use protogear.
Also protostomping is barely there. It's corp squads you lose against. Gear has barely anything to do with it.
I don't know what game you play, a third of the games I play have stacked squads of proto-users. A third of those, use officer weapons. Yes. They have the comfort of having such an unbalanced match they have no problem going 30+ to 0. You may think otherwise because you are most likely one of those proto mercs. Against closing the SP gap, against retaining new players, selfish proto-user.
Don't get me wrong, I will protostomp as soon as I get my proto gear. Why? Because of mercs like you, and the SP system. Yeah, I have been playing almost 3 months, and it will be another month before I get a proto suit. I think 4 months of getting protosmashed, it will be my turn |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
69
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 20:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
There's a big difference between a player with 500k SP and 5 mil SP. There's something of a difference between a player with 5 mil SP and 10 mil SP. There's less of a difference between a player with 10 mil SP and 15 mil SP. See where I'm going with this?
There's no need to retroactively grant potential SP for players who weren't around for the beta. At a certain point, the difference between SP between the new player and the vet player will cease to be significant. The vet player may be more versatile and have more options than a player with less SP, but that doesn't mean a more specialized newer player with less SP doesn't have a fighting chance.
As I've stated in other threads, I doubt CCP will implement a rollover system simply because it would require an overhaul of the booster system. Most people buy Aurum for boosters, and they will buy less Aurum/fewer boosters if they can recoup 2-3 weeks worth of cap in a single grind session using a 3-day or 7-day booster. |
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Beeeees
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
89
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Posted - 2013.08.06 20:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
You do realize that at some point the SP gained will bring no further benifit to the player aside from flexibility?
Having specced into 2 different proto guns does not allow one to wield both at the same time, with the exception of commando suit. Having specced into 2 different proto suits does not allow one to wear both one over each other.
30 mil SP does not make someone more OP, it just gives you more flexibility in battle.
I ate **** for a couple of months, and I still sometimes do, but now Ive got my proto gear set up and the big boys aint so big now. And I didnt even max the cap ever since Uprising hit.
Doesnt matter how much SP they have, Im on even ground with slayer people now, and Im running full time adv logi save for proto weapon. At some point you will catch up, its just a matter of time. |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
26
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 21:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
It honestly seems like half the people who commented are completely oblivious to what's going on in the game or are just distrustful. "proto-stomping" absolutely happens in this game, doesn't even have to be prototype suits being used really in essence it's just matches that are unevenly stacked, where 1 team is full of random seemingly new players and the other is full of experienced organized players, that's going to be a one sided battle. Ultimately proto stomping is just another version of "ups and downs", doesn't matter who you are you won't win every match and some matches will hand your ass to you; the difference is that with proto stomping, the other team has a built in advantage which is chalked up to poor matchmaking.
And I got the idea that some people think that real objective behind this idea is to exploit it? How the hell does that make sense? Look at how a rollover system would affect the players; the group of players that play nonstop since day 1 and are probably nearing 20mil SP or more at this point wont be affected at all, they put in the same amount of time and get the same amount of SP. Players that are very casual and may only play a short time every week won't be affected either, they don't hit the SP cap anyway. And finally the players who would take advantage of this system, the ones that would play past the standard SP cap in order to "catch up" to the people who are on 24/7, these people are the only ones that would be affected. It doesn't matter how new you are to the game if you're willing to put in the time then why not be able to make up for time you missed? I was taking classes when the open beta was going on so I could only collect passive SP, as a result of that i'm now about 5 mil (with boosters) behind where I would be, why not have the option to at least get some of that back?
I only see a couple of problems with the idea right now, one is that it could possibly widen the gap between casual and hardcore players, if more people grind out to get the rollover SP then the people who don't spend alot of time on the game will be protostomped far more often and probably discouraged from playing; the fix of course is a better matchmaking system and probably PVE which CCP is taking its sweet time to work on. The other problem, at least for why CCP might not implement it (possible player traffic issue) is that some players may use the rollover until they get enough SP to get the one setup they want to use, then just stop playing for a while, weird thought but I imagine for some people they may get the idea of suits or SP being like a ranking, status, or "collectable" in some other game where you just kinda get it just to say you got it and then forget about it.
I do like the idea, possible tinkering may be in order like the idea with the partial rollover where you can't get everything back, or maybe have active boosters not have an effect on rollover SP to give some people an incentive to still log on every week, passive SP probably still shouldn't apply to it, etc. And with that I ask anyone to give me a good reason to dispute anything I just said and not implement the system at all, emphasis on a GOOD reason.
Also kamarri, good couple of matches the other day :D |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
79
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 21:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
this universal cap idea is typically used for most MMOs, obviously once you get all of your dropsuit upgrades, protosuit, proto weapons/proficiency, you only can progress laterally. But that makes all of the difference. To start with a proto scout to infiltrate right away, to switch to a proto battle suit, is much different from only having one glass protosuit with no dropsuit upgrades/modules. if you are so against a universal cap, then make the first cap 15 million, where new mercs can get their proto modules, upgrade, suit, weapon that way they have a fighting chance. "it only takes 3 million SP to get proto suits and weapons." True but that means nothing without the passive upgrades (CPU/PG), proto modules and equipment. New mercs would be wasting ISK with protogear on par with vet mercs ADV suits.... I feel like I am just reiterating myself over and over.
Your argument: "I already satisfied with my gear because I have been playing for six months." Mine: Dust will not retain new players if it takes 6 months to catch up to have one fitting to be competitive. By then, vet mercs will have unstoppable vehicles, multiple dropsuit fittings for different situations, while relatively new players will only have Duvolles and ADV gear. |
8213
Grade No.2
96
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 21:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Its called AURUM, you're supposed to buy it, duh. |
Kamarri Amarr
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 22:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is great guys. I see some good points to improve on the idea.
I definitely like the partial rollover idea:
Stands Alone wrote:maybe rollover SP at the end of each week should be cut by 40-50% or something... that way you dont have some dude not play for like 2 and a half weeks log on play everyday for a week, hit the cap and get the same SP as people who play on a daily basis, then log off for 2 and a half more weeks... This partial rollover will give players incentive to be on every week which will help DUST with server numbers.
But remember, the DEVs said that they want to keep the gap between hardcore players and the rest of the players minimal. So the rollover idea is possibly the only way to do it.
Sana Rayya wrote:At a certain point, the difference between SP between the new player and the vet player will cease to be significant. I definitely see what you're saying, but remember my point about the negative trend from the start of the week towards the end of the week? This will keep players playing. If the casual players don't want to play that's fine. But its the customer that keeps coming back that keeps the business open. We cant have players that want to continue playing log off because the SP gains from WP are so minimal (like me; mind you ill still be on tonight). Some players need a little more incentive, so CCP should give it to them. To add to your "diminished significance" statement, versatility is definitely an advantage, and as a bonus, keeps players interested.
Ps.
Komodo Jones wrote:Also kamarri, good couple of matches the other day :D Thanks for the shout out bro! It was great playing with you.
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Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 22:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:this universal cap idea is typically used for most MMOs, obviously once you get all of your dropsuit upgrades, protosuit, proto weapons/proficiency, you only can progress laterally. But that makes all of the difference. To start with a proto scout to infiltrate right away, to switch to a proto battle suit, is much different from only having one glass protosuit with no dropsuit upgrades/modules. if you are so against a universal cap, then make the first cap 15 million, where new mercs can get their proto modules, upgrade, suit, weapon that way they have a fighting chance. "it only takes 3 million SP to get proto suits and weapons." True but that means nothing without the passive upgrades (CPU/PG), proto modules and equipment. New mercs would be wasting ISK with protogear on par with vet mercs ADV suits.... I feel like I am just reiterating myself over and over.
Your argument: "I already satisfied with my gear because I have been playing for six months." Mine: Dust will not retain new players if it takes 6 months to catch up to have one fitting to be competitive. By then, vet mercs will have unstoppable vehicles, multiple dropsuit fittings for different situations, while relatively new players will only have Duvolles and ADV gear.
love this, who cares if at 15 mil you can make one really good suit? Why not have more than one? Hell to max out dropsuit upgrades you need like 20+ mil and theyre probably going to add more mods. Not to mention all the weapons and suits for different play styles. And some people in the beta were reluctant to spend all their time grinding, why would a new player now want to do that save for just the obsessively dedicated. A question though, By universal cap do you mean that once you hit 15 mil you can't get any more experience? If so that's an interesting idea...I don't know how well it would go for people who want their characters to have alot of flexibility on the battlefield but it would on the other hand make having multiple characters viable. |
Psychotic Shooter
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
123
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 22:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kamarri Amarr wrote:The current SP system is frustrating. I understand that it is almost impossible to catch the vets, but I should at least be given the chance. By resetting the SP cap every week, there will forever be a gap between myself & the guys who have been here since the beginning. To paint a picture: If the vets cap out every week, & I cap out every week, I will never catch them & they will always have the advantage SP-wise (skill-wise is a completely different monster). So I propose that in the stead of the current system, there should be a rollover system. To clarify, when a new player enters the EVE universe, weekly SP caps from week one (whenever the game was released) until now should be summed and take the place of the SP cap. Once this "total" cap has been reached, then & only then would you have the 190k weekly SP cap. To further clarify, if a player misses a week or two for whatever reason, the SP should rollover to the following week so that the player has the chance to gain all the SP that they missed out on. I read on one of the DEV blogs (or maybe it was a DEV post) that the weekly SP cap was to keep the gap between the hardcore players & the normal players minimal. With that being said, the current system feeds the very problem that you're attempting to avoid. The hardcore players are hardcore & will therefore cap every week. If you don't give the rest of the community a chance to catch these players, then there will always be a gap! Keep in mind that with this new system, new players don't get any kind of advantage over old players so everyone should remain happy. Furthermore, because of the current system, I've noticed that the there is a negative trend concerning player numbers on a weekly basis (ie. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust). I believe that the rollover system will fix this, as players who have not reached the "total" cap will continue to grind until they do. This is because there are many more players who joined months into the games release rather than players who began when it was first released. I would just like to say that I love this game & hope that it sees a bright future, BUT FIX THE SP SYSTEM! TL;DR = IMPLEMENT A ROLLOVER SP SYSTEM
-1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
139
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 22:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
I don't like the idea of a rollover cap that is from the beginning of Dust, but from when you create your character. Everyone, from time to time will not be able to cap out a week but could possible play enough to catch up one week.
Maybe that's just me though |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
184
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 22:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:No, I just think there's no reason to turn everything around that works pretty good in Eve Online. Actually even I would profit from a system like this. But there's no need at all. 3 months and you can use protogear.
Also protostomping is barely there. It's corp squads you lose against. Gear has barely anything to do with it. I don't know what game you play, a third of the games I play have stacked squad s of proto-users. A third of those, use officer weapons. Yes. They have the comfort of having such an unbalanced match they have no problem going 30+ to 0. You may think otherwise because you are most likely one of those proto mercs. Against closing the SP gap, against retaining new players, selfish proto-user. Don't get me wrong, I will protostomp as soon as I get my proto gear. Why? Because of mercs like you, and the SP system. Yeah, I have been playing almost 3 months, and it will be another month before I get a proto suit. I think 4 months of getting protosmashed, it will be my turn
Even though I could use Protogear, I barely use it. It's too expensive. You know why? Because people with militia gear can and will still kill you. Contrary to popular believe it does not make you invincible. Also you just mentioned it yourself:
Quote:have stacked squads
You will never beat a squad. People who play together will always have the upper hand. The gear doesn't matter that much.
You still don't get my argument. When you skill in Dust you will most likely start with a dropsuit (I'm ignoring vehicle users now). You need about 2.5 Million SP to get that to Protolevel. Then you want a weapon, then some shields, then you need PG and CPU. After you have maybe 8 million - 10 million SP your advantage will stop. Because you will probably start speccing into other suits or other weapons. These will be SP you can't use at the same time. Because obviously you can't run 2 suits at the same time. You have to chose before you spawn.
Just throwing SP at newbies won't solve anything. Because they catch up very fast anyways. Even if you don't play at all they catch up regarding SP after a year with passive SP only. Because by then they should have about 8.5 million.
So if you want to change something don't start with SP. Change the gear. A system where you can buy gear which is just plain out better than other gear is no fun at all. Let me chose between different shields instead of just having 3 different shield extender where Proto > Advanced > Standard. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
956
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 23:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
The SP accrual rate should be doubled. With that atleast a new player can catch up in 3 months. |
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
187
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 23:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The SP accrual rate should be doubled. With that atleast a new player can catch up in 3 months.
They already can. Guess what: I was a new player 3 months ago. I caught up. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 00:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:this universal cap idea is typically used for most MMOs, obviously once you get all of your dropsuit upgrades, protosuit, proto weapons/proficiency, you only can progress laterally. But that makes all of the difference. To start with a proto scout to infiltrate right away, to switch to a proto battle suit, is much different from only having one glass protosuit with no dropsuit upgrades/modules. if you are so against a universal cap, then make the first cap 15 million, where new mercs can get their proto modules, upgrade, suit, weapon that way they have a fighting chance. "it only takes 3 million SP to get proto suits and weapons." True but that means nothing without the passive upgrades (CPU/PG), proto modules and equipment. New mercs would be wasting ISK with protogear on par with vet mercs ADV suits.... I feel like I am just reiterating myself over and over.
Your argument: "I already satisfied with my gear because I have been playing for six months." Mine: Dust will not retain new players if it takes 6 months to catch up to have one fitting to be competitive. By then, vet mercs will have unstoppable vehicles, multiple dropsuit fittings for different situations, while relatively new players will only have Duvolles and ADV gear. love this, who cares if at 15 mil you can make one really good suit? Why not have more than one? Hell to max out dropsuit upgrades you need like 20+ mil and theyre probably going to add more mods. Not to mention all the weapons and suits for different play styles. And some people in the beta were reluctant to spend all their time grinding, why would a new player now want to do that save for just the obsessively dedicated. A question though, By universal cap do you mean that once you hit 15 mil you can't get any more experience? If so that's an interesting idea...I don't know how well it would go for people who want their characters to have alot of flexibility on the battlefield but it would on the other hand make having multiple characters viable.
No, I mean no weekly cap until you get at least 15 mil. We keep arguing about different things. New player goes into a scout suit to infiltrate and get uplinks down and hack. Well, now that the initial part of a typically battle is over, it is not a good idea to run a scout in the middle of a battle, but they are stuck. A veteran has proto murder taxi, proto AV, proto AR, proto proto proto. That is not fair. I know you can work together as a squad to do much better than any lone proto-user, but still, new players are out of their league. In one month I will have nearly one fitting full of proto gear (suit, weapon, adv plates, complex dmg mod, STD nades) but still will be out of my league because I do not have any SP into things outside of my set situational fitting. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
82
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 00:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
I am tired of vets pushing the argument, "What? I have 18million SP, why don't you?" |
Killar-12
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
428
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 00:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about we remove the cap until a player reaches 5-10 million SP? |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
555
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 15:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:There's a big difference between a player with 500k SP and 5 mil SP. There's something of a difference between a player with 5 mil SP and 10 mil SP. There's less of a difference between a player with 10 mil SP and 15 mil SP. See where I'm going with this?
Despite my post about diminishing returns, I would say there is still a hefty gap between 10 and 15 million.
Also, since SP boosters are designed to not count against your cap at all, I think they'll still be an attractive option even with a rollover.
Lastly, I think a non-retroactive, partial rollover system (even if its just like 30% of your unused cap) is a FANTASTIC idea. |
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