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pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 616	Posted - 2013.08.04 13:48:00 - [1] - Quote Firstly id like to state that this is not a cry baby thread nor is it a nerf tanks thread but ccp has made a terrible error by nit fixing the armour rep bug . I will go through each reason and present it with a counter as well as making my point. I shall also use examples from my own experience fielding both shield and armour tanks. The reasons for why this is a mistake are listed bellow. 1) not fixing this bug makes armour tanks amost invincible . I will give both examples of faceing off with armour tanks and fielding them below. Face off . 2 days ago I was lucky enough to be pitted against 3 maddys in one game (they were called in half way through) I was running my falchion fit with an ehp of aprox 9k shield and a heavy booster as well as proto accelerated turrets. Onec I had noticed that the maddys were on the ground I started to retreat and move into a defensive possition as my squad started swaping out to av (mostly adv) it was obvious that the tank were after me ad they made a bee libe for me. Now remember this is 3 maddys and when I aimed in they were all between 5k to 6k armour not sure about their ehp as we dont get that reading. Now as they charged me both myself and my squad haild tgem with missiles and swarms alike all 3 maddys were striped down to near enough 0 armour when all were able to then just rep right through even when we consentrated fire on one maddy . Needless to say even with myself in retreat and with near enoug pin point hits every volly from both my squad and my self all 3 survived and honestly you should have swen how epic the fight was but their win didnt come from skill it came from zerg tactics and a broken rep system if the reps acctually did what the description said then none of them would have survived. Now ill give you an experience that involved my maddy and what appears to be a verry weak fit on paper but is nigh near invinsible. I joind a skirm half way throug and my team only had 2 of the 5 points. When I spawn in I watched the kill feed and 3 gunlogis poped up 2 with 80gj scatterd and one with a 80gj particle cannon . So I called I my mady with the compressed particle cannon an acctive heat sync and scanner in the highs on the lows I have 3 efficient armour reps (light) 180 steel plate and an ntype armour hardner . I only have a base resistance of 10 in this fit but it really work. Now when I called in the maddy I immediately went south of of the complex towards the raill tank he seen me first and got my shields so whiped on the reps and hardner I spotted him after his second shot and just steam rolld towards him acctivated my coolant pupm and done him in 4 shotts all this time he was still hitting me. He got maby 5 or 6 direct consecutive hits on me and I jjust shrugged it of. After I was done with him I turned my attention to the other 2 and acctivated o e repper to get me back to full armour . I circled the compound once to let my shields come up a bit then went in for the kill ad I rushed in I acctuvated my reps and hardners and just steamed towards them first I popped the one behind tge one at the front gate then acctivated my coolant pump and melted the other one . All this whilst unfer constant fire from both gunlogis and 2 malitia swarmers . Yet again I was able to just shrug it all off and retreat to the rear line round echo. After I repped up I just used myself as a mobile shield for my team to breech tge compuound . We managed to turn the game round so onece inside the compound someone on team announced 2 more rail gunlogis an I thought oh yea . So I just sat myself like a big fat prize at the front gait and waited I spotted one moving south and one moving north so I backed up back in to the comoound and waited as soon as I saw one of them enter I whioed on my invincibility mods and just pounded bothof tgem despite their well coordinated team effort to bring me down . They tryed one more time to pound me but with 3 gunlogi rails and pretty much surrounded me but I was able to pop every obe of them and stull survive be it just above the bleed point I should not have survived any of those encounters . If the reps acctually did what they say then I wouldent have. 2) its a bug plain and simple . Bugs should ve fixed . Now iv heard many folks say if you fix it they will quit because it will make their tank as inviable as shields . I say ha they are just really bad tankers in disguise because they have an exploitable bug that they dont want fixed becaus it will put them on par witg shield tankers and take away the win button.if they had to run shield most of them woukd probably rage quit and unfortunatly ccp listens to these folks. Now befor you take my side or not jyst count for one day the ratio between shield and armour tanks fielded I have found it to be 5 armour to every one shield tank I see . This shoukd be enough for ccp to see that simthing isnt right. Now what I propose is either ccp acctually fix the armour rep bug or break the shield one to the same extent of tge armour rep bug .
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 800	Posted - 2013.08.04 13:56:00 - [2] - Quote If the rep gets fixed armor tanks will be obsolete since everything can damage armor Even an AR will cause enough damage to it Shield rep back damage, armor doesnt AV nade will hurt even more, swarms will just drop it The rep alone is what keeps most armor tanks alive right now and if you play PC armor tanks are mainly used because of the damage they can take Buff shield instead
The Attorney General ZionTCD 659	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:03:00 - [3] - Quote The story of you versus three Shield tanks shows that if they had had an armor tank of their own, it would have gone very differently. Further, if three shield tanks firing at you didn't make you go pop, it wasn't your reps that saved you, but their horrid aim or fitting of standard cannons and bad aim. I have both shield and armor tanks and enforcers, and they all have specific roles in my eyes, with the Maddys being better overall right now because of the reps. Calling them invincible is not accurate, as there are several methods for popping armor tanks, quite easily I might add. The issue currently for shield tankers is that shield tanks are not the counter for armor tanks, AV is, which makes shield tankers quite uncomfortable. If a full squad and a missile Falchion are shooting at a single Maddy, it goes pop, everytime. So either your story is wrong, or you are spinning it to try and make a point, which is not respectable.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 616	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:06:00 - [4] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: The story of you versus three Shield tanks shows that if they had had an armor tank of their own, it would have gone very differently. Further, if three shield tanks firing at you didn't make you go pop, it wasn't your reps that saved you, but their horrid aim or fitting of standard cannons and bad aim. I have both shield and armor tanks and enforcers, and they all have specific roles in my eyes, with the Maddys being better overall right now because of the reps. Calling them invincible is not accurate, as there are several methods for popping armor tanks, quite easily I might add. The issue currently for shield tankers is that shield tanks are not the counter for armor tanks, AV is, which makes shield tankers quite uncomfortable. If a full squad and a missile Falchion are shooting at a single Maddy, it goes pop, everytime. So either your story is wrong, or you are spinning it to try and make a point, which is not respectable. Go home your drunk Im just telling as. So take it or leave it. Im not spinning anything as I dont need to.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 660	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:23:00 - [5] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Go home your drunk Im just telling as. So take it or leave it. Im not spinning anything as I dont need to. Was everyone in your squad running MLT swarms? Were you running a basic turret on a level one Falchion? You would need to be running frag missiles on a standard turret with 5 guys running MLT AV for any Maddy to survive.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1057	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:44:00 - [6] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Go home your drunk Im just telling as. So take it or leave it. Im not spinning anything as I dont need to. Was everyone in your squad running MLT swarms? Were you running a basic turret on a level one Falchion? You would need to be running frag missiles on a standard turret with 5 guys running MLT AV for any Maddy to survive. i have used my Falchion on an enemy maddy. i sneaked up behind it and waited for my team to throw SLs at it before firing, its was at half HP then i fired with no missiles missing he repaired though proto missiles on lvl 5 Falchion to full hp then turned and killed me while i was still firing at him. that is how OP the reps are.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 445	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:48:00 - [7] - Quote ladwar wrote: The Attorney General wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Go home your drunk Im just telling as. So take it or leave it. Im not spinning anything as I dont need to. Was everyone in your squad running MLT swarms? Were you running a basic turret on a level one Falchion? You would need to be running frag missiles on a standard turret with 5 guys running MLT AV for any Maddy to survive. i have used my Falchion on an enemy maddy. i sneaked up behind it and waited for my team to throw SLs at it before firing, its was at half HP then i fired with no missiles missing he repaired though proto missiles on lvl 5 Falchion to full hp then turned and killed me while i was still firing at him. that is how OP the reps are. Reps are not OP. Buff shields instead, that will help everyone
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1057	Posted - 2013.08.04 14:49:00 - [8] - Quote Harpyja wrote: ladwar wrote: The Attorney General wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Go home your drunk Im just telling as. So take it or leave it. Im not spinning anything as I dont need to. Was everyone in your squad running MLT swarms? Were you running a basic turret on a level one Falchion? You would need to be running frag missiles on a standard turret with 5 guys running MLT AV for any Maddy to survive. i have used my Falchion on an enemy maddy. i sneaked up behind it and waited for my team to throw SLs at it before firing, its was at half HP then i fired with no missiles missing he repaired though proto missiles on lvl 5 Falchion to full hp then turned and killed me while i was still firing at him. that is how OP the reps are. Reps are not OP. Buff shields instead, that will help everyone been saying that for a while, looks like that is a no-go.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition 43	Posted - 2013.08.04 17:32:00 - [9] - Quote All you armor HAV users will lose skill points if the armor repair bug gets fixed, since you think that they'll be inefficient compared to the shield HAVs and therefore you'll never use them. You should have thought about going into FoTD HAVs that clearly had bugged reppers and instead went shield, this is New Eden so just accept a couple of million skillpoint lost due to a nerf.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 446	Posted - 2013.08.04 18:08:00 - [10] - Quote Nitrobeacon wrote: All you armor HAV users will lose skill points if the armor repair bug gets fixed, since you think that they'll be inefficient compared to the shield HAVs and therefore you'll never use them. You should have thought about going into FoTD HAVs that clearly had bugged reppers and instead went shield, this is New Eden so just accept a couple of million skillpoint lost due to a nerf. FoTD? It's been like this ever since missiles got nerfed to the ground. Plus it's not a bug, but rather working as intended. If they "fix" this bug, then they will need to do the same thing to every active module. Rather, they should just change "pulse interval" to "pulse length". If they make armor reps do three times less rep, then shield transporters would need to become utterly useless as well. They have 15s cooldown and a 15s pulse "interval" and pulse once for 390 shield/s. if they "fix" this, then it will be one 390 shield boost every 30s. You see what I'm getting at? It's working as intended, but the wording is wrong. The only changes that need to happen are shield buffs, not armor nerfs.

daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.08.04 18:30:00 - [11] - Quote lol, three gunnlogi shooting at you and you don't die - sounds like a dream armor is fine, we take massive damage but can rep up, actually, overrep it's fine in reality you drop from 100 to 0 in 2 shots from each of them
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 617	Posted - 2013.08.04 20:11:00 - [12] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: lol, three gunnlogi shooting at you and you don't die - sounds like a dream armor is fine, we take massive damage but can rep up, actually, overrep it's fine in reality you drop from 100 to 0 in 2 shots from each of them No lols for the 3 pilots I smashed . Yes their turrets might not have been all proto but it shouldebt take proto turrets to tackle a maddy .
Kein-Engel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 61	Posted - 2013.08.04 20:19:00 - [13] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: lol, three gunnlogi shooting at you and you don't die - sounds like a dream armor is fine, we take massive damage but can rep up, actually, overrep it's fine in reality you drop from 100 to 0 in 2 shots from each of them No lols for the 3 pilots I smashed . Yes their turrets might not have been all proto but it shouldebt take proto turrets to tackle a maddy . Should mention that railguns get a bonus to shields and a negative bonus to armor.
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 896	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:17:00 - [14] - Quote instead of trying to get armor tanks down to your level my making their repers non existent, why not try to make shield boosters on the same level as armor reps, that way shield tanks are finally viewed as a viable tank choice as well... Im skilled into both armor and shield tanks, id prefer it if shield reppers were on the same level as armor is, then I would possibly be bringing out both
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 617	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote Void Echo wrote: instead of trying to get armor tanks down to your level my making their repers non existent, why not try to make shield boosters on the same level as armor reps, that way shield tanks are finally viewed as a viable tank choice as well... Im skilled into both armor and shield tanks, id prefer it if shield reppers were on the same level as armor is, then I would possibly be bringing out both Sigh iv been campaining for a shield buff but the non contact from ccp has driven me to standerds of the ar514 crown and am just coing to call for a nerf as it seems to be the only way to get ccps attention. (I dont want armour nerfed but shields fixed. )
Void Echo Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 896	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:26:00 - [16] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Void Echo wrote: instead of trying to get armor tanks down to your level my making their repers non existent, why not try to make shield boosters on the same level as armor reps, that way shield tanks are finally viewed as a viable tank choice as well... Im skilled into both armor and shield tanks, id prefer it if shield reppers were on the same level as armor is, then I would possibly be bringing out both Sigh iv been campaining for a shield buff but the non contact from ccp has driven me to standerds of the ar514 crown and am just coing to call for a nerf as it seems to be the only way to get ccps attention. (I dont want armour nerfed but shields fixed. ) not what your saying in this thread, il also point out that the reps have been doing this since the beginning of closed beta yet nobody has ever complained abut it till now
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:30:00 - [17] - Quote Kein-Engel wrote: pegasis prime wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: lol, three gunnlogi shooting at you and you don't die - sounds like a dream armor is fine, we take massive damage but can rep up, actually, overrep it's fine in reality you drop from 100 to 0 in 2 shots from each of them No lols for the 3 pilots I smashed . Yes their turrets might not have been all proto but it shouldebt take proto turrets to tackle a maddy . Should mention that railguns get a bonus to shields and a negative bonus to armor. Should mention that gunnlogi usually fit damage mods and three of them shooting at something kills it. He said he was surrounded and they were shooting at him, no way he would survive this.
RAGING GIGGLES Hostile Acquisition Inc The Superpowers 26	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:38:00 - [18] - Quote Yes, buff the shield booster reps on shield boosters, or increase shield recharge numbers exponentially, this would balance the tank vs. tank choice disparity. Give the armor tanks 5-10 % more innate damage resistance to compensate for the fact that practically everything but scrambler rifles get a damage bonus against them. Do that, and you have Balanced HAV's, there you go CCP, you now owe me 200,000,000 isk for my usual common sense consulting fee, Ty.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 617	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:39:00 - [19] - Quote Void Echo wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Void Echo wrote: instead of trying to get armor tanks down to your level my making their repers non existent, why not try to make shield boosters on the same level as armor reps, that way shield tanks are finally viewed as a viable tank choice as well... Im skilled into both armor and shield tanks, id prefer it if shield reppers were on the same level as armor is, then I would possibly be bringing out both Sigh iv been campaining for a shield buff but the non contact from ccp has driven me to standerds of the ar514 crown and am just coing to call for a nerf as it seems to be the only way to get ccps attention. (I dont want armour nerfed but shields fixed. ) not what your saying in this thread, il also point out that the reps have been doing this since the beginning of closed beta yet nobody has ever complained abut it till now Look at the 2 options I proposed 1 was to"fix "armour inline with dhields or break shields to the point where they are in line with armour. Hell thus thread is just me venting my frustration at all the fotm maddy pilots who hav an invinsibility button . It shoukdent take a maddy to counter a maddy.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 617	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:42:00 - [20] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Kein-Engel wrote: pegasis prime wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: lol, three gunnlogi shooting at you and you don't die - sounds like a dream armor is fine, we take massive damage but can rep up, actually, overrep it's fine in reality you drop from 100 to 0 in 2 shots from each of them No lols for the 3 pilots I smashed . Yes their turrets might not have been all proto but it shouldebt take proto turrets to tackle a maddy . Should mention that railguns get a bonus to shields and a negative bonus to armor. Should mention that gunnlogi usually fit damage mods and three of them shooting at something kills it. He said he was surrounded and they were shooting at him, no way he would survive this. After the pg nerf only glass cannons fit dammage modds and most shield tankers wont fit them because it will mess with our tanking capabilities.

pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 617	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:44:00 - [21] - Quote RAGING GIGGLES wrote: Yes, buff the shield booster reps on shield boosters, or increase shield recharge numbers exponentially, this would balance the tank vs. tank choice disparity. Give the armor tanks 5-10 % more innate damage resistance to compensate for the fact that practically everything but scrambler rifles get a damage bonus against them. Do that, and you have Balanced HAV's, there you go CCP, you now owe me 200,000,000 isk for my usual common sense consulting fee, Ty. Hell when im back at the ps ill send you some isk and you deserve it simply because of how uncommen commen sense is.
Kharga Lum PornHub.com 96	Posted - 2013.08.04 21:50:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If the rep gets fixed armor tanks will be obsolete since everything can damage armor Even an AR will cause enough damage to it Shield rep back damage, armor doesnt AV nade will hurt even more, swarms will just drop it The rep alone is what keeps most armor tanks alive right now and if you play PC armor tanks are mainly used because of the damage they can take Buff shield instead At level 5 the bonus passive shield regen is only +24hp/sec. So the entire "shields passive regen" argument is meaningless.
Tebu Gan CrimeWave Syndicate 4	Posted - 2013.08.04 23:12:00 - [23] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: The story of you versus three Shield tanks shows that if they had had an armor tank of their own, it would have gone very differently. Further, if three shield tanks firing at you didn't make you go pop, it wasn't your reps that saved you, but their horrid aim or fitting of standard cannons and bad aim. I have both shield and armor tanks and enforcers, and they all have specific roles in my eyes, with the Maddys being better overall right now because of the reps. Calling them invincible is not accurate, as there are several methods for popping armor tanks, quite easily I might add. The issue currently for shield tankers is that shield tanks are not the counter for armor tanks, AV is, which makes shield tankers quite uncomfortable. If a full squad and a missile Falchion are shooting at a single Maddy, it goes pop, everytime. So either your story is wrong, or you are spinning it to try and make a point, which is not respectable. I would agree with you that Shield tanks are not a counter in a straight up fight with a maddy. Though from my experience with shield tanks, 5 mil sp in them thus far which is plenty to nearly max a STANDARD tank out, the difference in balance is huge. Maddies hold every single advantage in every category. I get that people feel they should have specific roles in combat, but those differences have not truly been established. Shields I feel should be the one's that don't stick around in the hot zone for long but the burst healing gives them the advantage when they are faced with burst AV dps. Problem is the burst healz just don't give enough to pull yourself out when things get rough, so I use a speed boost on my high slot to do this with a bit of success. Armor on the other hand, with the slow reps, is meant for sustained combat, and they do somewhat well in that aspect. I feel they should be a bit slower but more then able to take the beating. The lines have yet to be established one what role they should be taking, BUT since these are standard tanks, I don't really think they should have clear cut lines between them. Another thing, missiles are crap, yet that is the caldaris main weapon of choice, but clearly Blasters and Rail rule. And neither tank is invincible, my shields take AV better then a maddy could but when the proto stuff comes out, game over man. If you got to face a maddy, you pull out your rails, though I was considering trying a speed fit missile for a counter to a blaster fit maddy. I think that maybe I could stay just out of range of the blasters, which would buy me the time to fire off the salvos needed. Way I see it, if I manage to PUSH A TANK BACK, i've done my job. Winning the battle does not mean destroying your enemy, that is called winning the war.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 804	Posted - 2013.08.05 11:46:00 - [24] - Quote Kharga Lum wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If the rep gets fixed armor tanks will be obsolete since everything can damage armor Even an AR will cause enough damage to it Shield rep back damage, armor doesnt AV nade will hurt even more, swarms will just drop it The rep alone is what keeps most armor tanks alive right now and if you play PC armor tanks are mainly used because of the damage they can take Buff shield instead At level 5 the bonus passive shield regen is only +24hp/sec. So the entire "shields passive regen" argument is meaningless. Its still 24hp more than what armor can do Passive should be increased tho, when i add a shield extender to my ship in EVE passive is increased, when i do it to my HAV nothing changes
Tebu Gan CrimeWave Syndicate 5	Posted - 2013.08.05 13:32:00 - [25] - Quote Kharga Lum wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: If the rep gets fixed armor tanks will be obsolete since everything can damage armor Even an AR will cause enough damage to it Shield rep back damage, armor doesnt AV nade will hurt even more, swarms will just drop it The rep alone is what keeps most armor tanks alive right now and if you play PC armor tanks are mainly used because of the damage they can take Buff shield instead At level 5 the bonus passive shield regen is only +24hp/sec. So the entire "shields passive regen" argument is meaningless. Yeah the passive regen is nice, but in a combat situation it is meaningless.
Stalken Pathfinder Shadow Company HQ 39	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:16:00 - [26] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Firstly id like to state that this is not a cry baby thread nor is it a nerf tanks thread.... ...yada yada yada...(insert lots of stuff that sounds an awful like crying about nerfing tanks)...yada yada yada... Ok can we please stop the tank on tank violence/hate until the Vehicle/Anti-Vehicle balance is fixed? I have not been doing this as long as yall have so I can only imagine how much greater your frustration is than mine. That being said, do you really want to go in this direction? Right now we are deprived of good tank vs tank battles because when we get there things aren't even. If tanks continue to get nerfed we will be deprived of tank vs tank battles because none of us will live long enough to make it to the fight; we will get ganked by AV along the way. I hardly ever get to have a good tank v tank battle without some AV chiming in as well. Or more often than not I get chewed up by AV on route to a tank v tank battle so when I get there it turns out to be not much of a fight. Yes I am primarily an armor tanker but I am also skilled into the shield side of things and run both from time to time. While shield tanks are at a disadvantage versus armor tanks, they are truly amazing against AV. It's no wonder that AV players don't think there is a big issue with OP AV because whenever they go up against shield tanks they must say to themselves something along the lines of "holy bananas batman, my proto AV gear barely tickled him" whereas against an armor tank they are doing dances over burning scrap metal. All it takes right now is for one proto AV'er to wait for you to roll up on them and you are dead if not close to it. 3 Lai Dai Packeds equals over 5100 damage in about 4 seconds (closer to 6000 vs armor...only around 4000 vs shields...if i were one to ***** about imbalance I'd start here but this is an argument for another place/time). At this point you pop your modules and start running away. But the even bigger problem is the proto AV'er still has three volleys of proto swarms left to finish you off. They can be administered in about 15 seconds from just about any range and will chase you down even around buildings and other obstacles so running away isn't even really much of an option. So how does nerfing heavy repper effectiveness or longevity help this situation? I do not disagree that, among several other factors, the reppers give armor tanks an advantage over shield tanks in tank vs tank battles. But you are talking about these things like they exist in a vacuum. You talk like making changes to one thing for one reason won't have a totally separate affect on how these things function under different circumstances and in different situations. You started out saying this is not a "cry baby" or "nerf tanks" thread but it absolutely is! Not to mention an ill-conceived one at that. Nerfing heavy reppers will do NOTHING to fix the overarching imbalances throughout the vehicle system. That is, unless what you really want is to be the only guy running around the map in a tank unchallenged in your battlefield superiority. Perhaps a change to the title of this thread is required? Because the only truth this would seem to reveal is that you are more concerned about your own ability to win an easier battle than you are with playing a balanced game that presents reasonable challenges for you to overcome.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 618	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:01:00 - [27] - Quote Dude if you have ever seen any of my otger tgreads then you woukd know to take my statement about fixing nit nerfing armour tanks witg a bit of toung in cheek. I dont want tanks nerfed far from it. Also if you read anyvof my reolies you would know this thread was me venting my frustration for tge lack of love shield tanks have recieved. We have been nerfed far worde than the armour tanks as it was the dammage output of shield tanks that keot us on par but after the pg nerf we really suffered I dont really like runing my maddy but will if I come across a good well fitted maddy as it is tge best tank for tank v tank but this was not always the case.
Stalken Pathfinder Shadow Company HQ 39	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:04:00 - [28] - Quote Fair enough. I just think we all need to take a deep breath and think before we ask for the nerf bat to strike (seriously or otherwise). Because the damage they do can never be undone, at least not in the short run. After all that's how we got into this mess in the first place, isn't it? That is all :)
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 45	Posted - 2013.08.05 19:45:00 - [29] - Quote Armor rep is fine, honestly. The issue is that shields can't match armor in any field. MY suggestions to balance tanks is 1. The way the tanks handle should be flipped, with shields handling as armor does now and armor handling as shields do. Armor is HEAVY, and the fact that an armor tank can outrun a shield one, and turn faster, makes no logical sense. Don't nerf armor tanks to be lower than shields are now, because then they will be quite useless, even with the armor rep bug. Just flip their performance. 2. Keep the armor rep "bug." Everything in game pretty much wrecks armor, they need the help. Plus it fits in with how armor should perform. Lots of hp with a slow, steady repair rate. 3. Either return the pg increase to vehicle engineering skill, or give vehicle shield extension a pg reduction instead of cpu reduction. I have tried to max out my cpu as much as possible, with only 2 ranks in the skill, and the only way possible for me to go over my cpu limit takes me over my pg limit first. 4. Keep the ten second active time and 30 second recharge on shield modules, but make them have much greater effect. Shield should go from empty to full in that ten seconds, with the long recharge to offset this huge amount of rep. Perhaps repping 650hp a pulse, for ten pulses over ten seconds. Active shield should do 50% damage resistance for ten seconds with a 30 second cooldown. Shields should be about getting in fast, doing lots of damage with heat sinks and damage mods in the lows, and getting out of dodge. Armor is supposed to be in the thick of things, taking the hits and keeping on trucking. Currently armor does both, and shield can do neither. But I do agree that the solution is not to bring armor tanking down, but pull shield tanking up. CCP, DON'T NERF ARMOR INTO OBLIVION. I'm fully invested in shield tanking, so I'm not trying to be self-serving. Vehicle balance needs attention, severe attention, but armor is fine where it is, save for the speed thing mentioned in no. 1. Instead, bring shields up to armor's level. Positive reinforcement is better than negative. :)
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 584	Posted - 2013.08.05 21:29:00 - [30] - Quote Armor tanks live on those reps, if they worked as stated, all you'd ever see is rail tanks. The need is actually shield tanks with a buff. If your story is correct, I have had similar situations, the opposition had poor co-ordination and poor tanking skills, 3 rail Gunloggi's should be able to set-up and out damage your reps. One by one, they'll have a problem unless they have good drivers/crews.



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