Guess I'll be that guy, then.

I don't think either dropships or tanks should be lower in price. If anything, make them more expensive, but more resilient. I wish heavies were treated in the same manner as well.

I'm a fan of big toys being able to do big things, at a big cost. And when you kill them, you feel good because you know somebody is crying their heart out.

2 things will happen

Either they reduce the prices so we can field more for less or they increase the prices but make the vehicle be able to take more damage

I prefer paying more for a better vehicle tbh

So u want cheap tanks eyh? Spam the battlefield with tanks and dropships. That will be fun.

Just the cost of prototype and maybe advanced infantry gear should go up. Leave everything else as it is. That's all that needs to be balanced ISK-wise.

I'd actually prefer prototype gear to become salvage from PvE missions when we get them, but that might be too extreme for some.

Then balance things through gameplay mechanics and content.

Add 'dispersion' to forge gun shots, for instance.
Make AV grenades take time to acquire a target to home in on. (ie. they fall near a vehicle and only 'magnetise' to it after a few seconds)
Have more swarm rockets, make them deal less damage each, increase knockback power slightly so that it jolts as much as flaylocks do now.
Reduce flaylock 'push' on dropships

etc.

Basically all we need to do is find the right price for prototype (and even advanced) gear that only in 1 out of 10 matches will you find someone using it. Right now, it's probably 9/10 public matches where prototype gear is found.

If it's expensive enough, no one will use it. You may argue those with fat wallets will. Well, fine. Let them burn some ISK on the glory of battle. Right now, they suffer minimal losses if they want to protostomp all day. There is no consequence. Everyone knows that. Previously I suggested raising prices of prototype gear to the equivalent of a HAV. People told me: "but that won't matter when EVE floods DUST with ISK". Well, no ****! So if that's the case, how bad will the problem be now, if we don't jack up those prices?

That might be preferable but in the current state of things, this feels ridiculous.

I would have to clone an entire team by repeatedly killing the same FG user to cost him a fraction of what he'll just glance up and brush aside in a moment.


In general I think infantry gear is too cheap. Basically running ground makes it impossible to lose isk unless you're going like full proto for no reason.
infantry = constantly isk positive.
vehicles = constantly isk negative.

if militia gear is going to be dirt cheap, it should be dirt terrible too. militia forge gun poops over proto gear and one shots them. sup isk

I did say I wanted heavies to be more expensive as well.

It's my personal belief that militia forge guns shouldn't even exist.

If we had a market and economy dictated by the players, you would see this eventually balance itself out.

I think you are missing a few things:

- While AV causes a lot of damage if it downs a tank, it doesn't do much anything else. It doesn't nearly have the battlefield presence that a tank has, nor does it provide nearly the amount of rewards.

- A tank will leave a path of destruction that can easily rival whatever the AV takes out over the duration of a game. You don't have to cause all that loss to the AV guy to "get even".

- Everyone is infantry. Vehicles are not an alternative to infantry, they are an add on. You pay for the additional power, and it ensures that vehicles are not fielded thoughtlessly in every battle.

I'm not saying that vehicles are fine, they are clearly not, I just don't agree with your reasonings for balancing around ISK. I believe that vehicles should always be a luxury, to keep their usage on public servers in check (and at least when it comes to tanks, nobody can say that we don't see enough of them being used already...).

Guess I'll be that guy, then.

I don't think either dropships or tanks should be lower in price. If anything, make them more expensive, but more resilient. I wish heavies were treated in the same manner as well.

I'm a fan of big toys being able to do big things, at a big cost. And when you kill them, you feel good because you know somebody is crying their heart out.

Sorry but you are wrong vehicle's are not an upgrade or side gradw but we are a specilisation just as much as a logi is a specilisation where did you get the idea tgat we are a luxury we are a specilisation of our own . If you are neither av specilised adv and above or a vehicle specilist then you have no oppinion.

Because you are still in a suit. You lose your vehicle, you don't lose your clone. You can't use a vehicle without a suit. Pilot suits will be a specialisation, but vehicles are an add on, that's just how it is. We can call in vehicles at any time to give us an edge on the battlefield, it takes nothing away from us aside from ISK. What you specialise your SP on is your choice.

On my previous main char I'm a dropship pilot, so I know all about not making a profit on the battlefield... A adapted. Dropships need fixing, but they don't need to become consistently profitable to have a place in the game.

I did say I wanted heavies to be more expensive as well.

It's my personal belief that militia forge guns shouldn't even exist.

You sir have compleatly missed the point about vehicleur warfair we are not a luxuray or a bloody side grade will you still class us as a luxury when we have oir pilot suits ? Oh you probably just want to play cod 514 with no vehicles . Ds are anotger matter but we are not a sidegrsde our chosen SPECIALLITY is much more sp intensive than any dropsuit and costs a hell of allot more than any dropsuit . WE ARE NOT A LUXURY OR SIDEGRADE BUT A SPECILISATION OF OUR OWN AND DO DESERVE TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM OUR EFFORTS . if you cant fathom that then you have no place in this game or being a part time ds pilot lo fing l .

EDIT:

Another thing, which I brought up in another thread, if you can kill a vehicle in any given fight, you can kill a vehicle in EVERY fight. So, we either need to balance vehicles so they are nigh immortal, we need to reduce the cost so they can be earned in a single match, we need to increase the rewards gained by vehicle operators substantially, or we need to understand that vehicle operators will never be able to wholely dedicate themselves to the vehicle role, because they'll always have to run around in militia gear on the field with a cup, begging for donations.

Make Heavies more expensive? How about no.

You sir have compleatly missed the point about vehicleur warfair we are not a luxuray or a bloody side grade will you still class us as a luxury when we have oir pilot suits ? Oh you probably just want to play cod 514 with no vehicles . Ds are anotger matter but we are not a sidegrsde our chosen SPECIALLITY is much more sp intensive than any dropsuit and costs a hell of allot more than any dropsuit . WE ARE NOT A LUXURY OR SIDEGRADE BUT A SPECILISATION OF OUR OWN AND DO DESERVE TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM OUR EFFORTS . if you cant fathom that then you have no place in this game or being a part time ds pilot lo fing l .

Wow, I'm kind of concerned about that foam around your mouth. But I'll make one last try to clarify:

- Of course vehicles are a specialisation, but they are not an alternative to dropsuits. You are still in a suit. You don't spawn in as a vehicle, and your clone is not tied to the vehicle. You can call in and recall a vehicle at any time. Vehicles are an add on by design, if you don't understand this then I don't know what else to say.

- I'm not the one crying to CCP that the game doesn't match what I thought it would be. Contrary to popular opinion, games are not designed by throwing dice and putting random numbers together, so the current pricing structure of vehicles was a very conscious decision.

- My intention is not to tell anybody that they can't drive vehicles 24/7. If you can make it work, then more power to you. Just don't go around complaining that you can't easily make a living on public servers. Maybe ask your squad mates to contribute, if your efforts help them out so much. Be creative. You don't need CCP to hand you everything on a silver platter.

I'd like to compare the size of an M-1 Abrams, a Rifter, and a 747. Take a look: http://i.imm.io/1emX1.jpeg

Now, the M1 Abrams costs $6M, and obviously that's fully fitted with all sorts of gear. The 747 costs anywhere from $24M (first gen) to $350M.

Next, let's look on the EVE side of things. That Rifter goes for about 420K ISK on the market right now. Throw some T1 modules on it and you might push 1M if you try hard. The tank hull is like 200K ISK, and that's ignoring all fittings. Does anybody else find it weird that a fully fitted tank costs more than a fully fitted space ship the size of a 747?

I'll be honest, we are comparing the weakest of ships in EVE to the strongest tanks in DUST, but the point still stands. How hard is it to build a tank compared to a ship that can whip up to 279 million miles per second and has a targeting system that can automatically dispatch enemies at 20KM away?

Now, I'm a dropship pilot, so I raise this point in order to show how high vehicle prices as a whole are, because I'd like to see this contribute to a drop in price on Pythons and their modules.


EDIT:

Another thing, which I brought up in another thread, if you can kill a vehicle in any given fight, you can kill a vehicle in EVERY fight. So, we either need to balance vehicles so they are nigh immortal, we need to reduce the cost so they can be earned in a single match, we need to increase the rewards gained by vehicle operators substantially, or we need to understand that vehicle operators will never be able to wholely dedicate themselves to the vehicle role, because they'll always have to run around in militia gear on the field with a cup, begging for donations.

I think you are missing a few things:

- While AV causes a lot of damage if it downs a tank, it doesn't do much anything else. It doesn't nearly have the battlefield presence that a tank has, nor does it provide nearly the amount of rewards.

- A tank will leave a path of destruction that can easily rival whatever the AV takes out over the duration of a game. You don't have to cause all that loss to the AV guy to "get even".

- Everyone is infantry. Vehicles are not an alternative to infantry, they are an add on. You pay for the additional power, and it ensures that vehicles are not fielded thoughtlessly in every battle.

I'm not saying that vehicles are fine, they are clearly not, I just don't agree with your reasonings for balancing around ISK. I believe that vehicles should always be a luxury, to keep their usage on public servers in check (and at least when it comes to tanks, nobody can say that we don't see enough of them being used already...).

No... I don't think they should ever balance the core stats of a suit or vehicle around its isk price.

They should create and balance without even considering isk price and then come back and determine an isk price that is appropriate for each item's power.

As a fyi this is getting addressed in verc blance pass of 1.4

but I think ISK should be balanced against ISK


a 50,000 forge gun should not 3 shot a 1,500,000 ISK dropship.

Yes, and 1,000 isk (insert any weapon here) should not be able to destroy a 100,000 Isk drop suit... Oh wait it can
Or a 2,000 isk nade... oh wait it can

And a $0.02 nail made from iron shoudn't be able to destroy a $90 tire, oh wait it can..
and a $15,000 fishing boat with a fertilizer bomb should not be able to sink a $300 million warship.. oh wait it can.. and has.
A $200 cold war era RPG-7 should not be able to destroy a $20 million helicopter.. oh wait it can.. and has.

but I think ISK should be balanced against ISK


a 50,000 forge gun should not 3 shot a 1,500,000 ISK dropship.

If it can, then either the price of AV needs to go up, or the price of derpships needs to go down.

This is just silly.

And don't even get me started about turret installations (free) or RDV's (ccp) killing us. losing ISK at a frightening pace