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MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
258
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Posted - 2013.08.01 15:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
So been hammering this for months but it tends to fall out of sight because of all the balance issues. We've waited months for the Rollover system that was the intended iteration of the SP system. The current system is the temporary system in place until that rollover system could be implmented.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633 What sad is this was posted in february and rollover was targeted for release on Uprising which wold have been the next major release. Now i get that there is a lot of other issues that are taking away from iterating a rollover system, or perhaps its been abandoned altogether.
But lets face it the dev resources needed for rollover could be completely eliminated by removing the SP Cap outright. The intention of trying to limit the gap between casual and hardcore players is instead creating a larger vacuum between new and veteran players. The delay in time to get into fighting shape often leads to discouragement and most wont even take the time. Moreover given the low pool of players to begin with it creates stagnation at the top as the veterans have to wait for new competition to arise.
IT has created almost a system of educational classes where each new crop of players is like a freshman class that is forever behind the seniors and when the seniors graduate(leave the game) the freshman move up but in the end all you have is a non-cycling conveyor of players with no retention at both the bottom and the top. So instead of growth in the playerbase all you are getting is a steady state and over time will result in decline.
Getting rid of the SP CAP has far more benefits at the bottom then it has deleterious effects at the top. It really is time to just get rid of it already. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1391
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:So been hammering this for months but it tends to fall out of sight because of all the balance issues. We've waited months for the Rollover system that was the intended iteration of the SP system. The current system is the temporary system in place until that rollover system could be implmented. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633 What sad is this was posted in february and rollover was targeted for release on Uprising which wold have been the next major release. Now i get that there is a lot of other issues that are taking away from iterating a rollover system, or perhaps its been abandoned altogether. But lets face it the dev resources needed for rollover could be completely eliminated by removing the SP Cap outright. The intention of trying to limit the gap between casual and hardcore players is instead creating a larger vacuum between new and veteran players. The delay in time to get into fighting shape often leads to discouragement and most wont even take the time. Moreover given the low pool of players to begin with it creates stagnation at the top as the veterans have to wait for new competition to arise. IT has created almost a system of educational classes where each new crop of players is like a freshman class that is forever behind the seniors and when the seniors graduate(leave the game) the freshman move up but in the end all you have is a non-cycling conveyor of players with no retention at both the bottom and the top. So instead of growth in the playerbase all you are getting is a steady state and over time will result in decline. Getting rid of the SP CAP has far more benefits at the bottom then it has deleterious effects at the top. It really is time to just get rid of it already.
It was a dumb idea the last 20 times someone suggested this. It still is.
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Zekain Kade
TeamPlayers EoN.
1358
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Posted - 2013.08.01 15:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
OMF FIX VEHICLES.
Pls. |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
356
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:So been hammering this for months but it tends to fall out of sight because of all the balance issues. We've waited months for the Rollover system that was the intended iteration of the SP system. The current system is the temporary system in place until that rollover system could be implmented. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633 What sad is this was posted in february and rollover was targeted for release on Uprising which wold have been the next major release. Now i get that there is a lot of other issues that are taking away from iterating a rollover system, or perhaps its been abandoned altogether. But lets face it the dev resources needed for rollover could be completely eliminated by removing the SP Cap outright. The intention of trying to limit the gap between casual and hardcore players is instead creating a larger vacuum between new and veteran players. The delay in time to get into fighting shape often leads to discouragement and most wont even take the time. Moreover given the low pool of players to begin with it creates stagnation at the top as the veterans have to wait for new competition to arise. IT has created almost a system of educational classes where each new crop of players is like a freshman class that is forever behind the seniors and when the seniors graduate(leave the game) the freshman move up but in the end all you have is a non-cycling conveyor of players with no retention at both the bottom and the top. So instead of growth in the playerbase all you are getting is a steady state and over time will result in decline. Getting rid of the SP CAP has far more benefits at the bottom then it has deleterious effects at the top. It really is time to just get rid of it already.
Well said.
I've always thought EVEs progression system is a major design flaw for competitive fps but I never thought about it much. |
BF3 Noob
BATTLEFIELD FRIENDS
6
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm guessing that getting rid of the SP cap is not likely since that would cut months of potential booster purchases from new players. CCP would be throwing away money. |
Protocake JR
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
356
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
BF3 Noob wrote:I'm guessing that getting rid of the SP cap is not likely since that would cut months of potential booster purchases from new players. CCP would be throwing away money.
I would still buy boosters if they made them x3 instead of lol.5 |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3708
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd say fix the skill tree so it's not a linear SP sink and either make SP 100% passive (with new players gaining SP faster) or finally implement the SP rollover we were promised. |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
408
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Here's a better solution. Move Dust to PC ^_^ (then bring it to ps4 since you are going to remove the turn cap on KB/m I believe) |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1416
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
BF3 Noob wrote:I'm guessing that getting rid of the SP cap is not likely since that would cut months of potential booster purchases from new players. CCP would be throwing away money.
It would probably increase booster sales as active boosters would be worth a damn for once.
We would need to adjust SP acquisition to accommodate this but moving from 5 SP/s + 1 SP/WP with cap to 1-2SP/S + 2-3 SP/WP no cap would really really help this game.
You also wouldn't have this 'grind to cap' mentality. It would really help afk farming if you reduced the passive SP gain. And you would also see people playing more consistently. Atm... soon as I hit cap I log off till the next weds... no reason to bother playing. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
608
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
BF3 Noob wrote:I'm guessing that getting rid of the SP cap is not likely since that would cut months of potential booster purchases from new players. CCP would be throwing away money.
I'd still get boosters.
i've been an avid voice against removing the sp cap, mostly because if it wasn't around i'd have so much sp it would be silly, but regardless I don't really see the negatives as much anymore.
here is the BIGGEST and only reason I would want the cap removed, players stop playing when thy hit their caps, honestly we don't want that to happen you want players on using their chars as much as possible.
if new players think they have any chance of catching vets with the sp cap gone they are sorely mistaken, and removing the cap will only likely make the difference larger, but they could reach the ceilings faster, and become competitive faster as well.
over all, the sp cap isn't hurting new players but I do think it might be hurting the overall game. |
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MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
262
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote:So been hammering this for months but it tends to fall out of sight because of all the balance issues. We've waited months for the Rollover system that was the intended iteration of the SP system. The current system is the temporary system in place until that rollover system could be implmented. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=483247#post483247https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=52633 What sad is this was posted in february and rollover was targeted for release on Uprising which wold have been the next major release. Now i get that there is a lot of other issues that are taking away from iterating a rollover system, or perhaps its been abandoned altogether. But lets face it the dev resources needed for rollover could be completely eliminated by removing the SP Cap outright. The intention of trying to limit the gap between casual and hardcore players is instead creating a larger vacuum between new and veteran players. The delay in time to get into fighting shape often leads to discouragement and most wont even take the time. Moreover given the low pool of players to begin with it creates stagnation at the top as the veterans have to wait for new competition to arise. IT has created almost a system of educational classes where each new crop of players is like a freshman class that is forever behind the seniors and when the seniors graduate(leave the game) the freshman move up but in the end all you have is a non-cycling conveyor of players with no retention at both the bottom and the top. So instead of growth in the playerbase all you are getting is a steady state and over time will result in decline. Getting rid of the SP CAP has far more benefits at the bottom then it has deleterious effects at the top. It really is time to just get rid of it already. It was a dumb idea the last 20 times someone suggested this. It still is.
Hardly dumb, what is dumb is your sad rants about the AR killing weapon diversity when you are clueless on how the game functions and why the AR is used. The SP CAP outfights holds players back needlessly most of all new players. It has been shown over and over and over in PC battles that those who have a requisitie amount of SP are at no longer at a disadvantage to others who have more. That number is between 10-15M SP. Once you have a proto suit, weapon, mods and core skill in one area and have a team that is balanced around all the roles needed to play a skirmish effectively, the disadvantage is nearly zero compared to a team that has enough to say do this with 2 different fittings each. There is a diminishing return on the battlefield effectiveness on a veteran player after a threshold amount of SP so even a hardcore grinder cant run away from the pack and have any sort of real advantage. |
MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
262
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'd say fix the skill tree so it's not a linear SP sink and either make SP 100% passive (with new players gaining SP faster) or finally implement the SP rollover we were promised.
Thats the point Cosgar, i wouldnt care if they could implement the rollover. but the reason it wasnt implemented in february was they were having technical hurdles implementing it. Now im all for implementing it but it seems CCP still hasn't figured out how to do it or dont have the dev resources to do it considering all the other issues in the game, and honestly id rather dev resources be used in those areas when removing the SP Cap would be a simple server side hotfix that wont require a client update of any kind.
Lets face it how many veterans you know that are interested in grinding out SP if they have anywhere between 15-20M SP? Most dont even play so are we really going to see a rampant runaway of hardcore players and even if they did lets say someone grinds and grinds and grinds and is suddenly at 50M SP in the next month or two? What effect will this player have on the game? Will they be anymore difficult to kill, will they be able to singlehandedly carry their team to victory? Will they be the most difficult player to stop in this game ever and a GAWD?
Along with removing the SP cap, CCP also wanted to reduce the SP gains to offset it, so boosters could still have value if they are increasing your SP gains. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1393
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 15:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap.
Oh, and my quest to raise awareness about diversity and true balance is something CCP should be focusing on, not just me. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
608
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap.
this I never want to see, if people don't play after capping out now, why would they play at all if it's passive, they'd show up play 1 or 2 games then leave. |
MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
262
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap.
Oh, and my quest to raise awareness about diversity and true balance is something CCP should be focusing on, not just me.
No it really isnt |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1393
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap. this I never want to see, if people don't play after capping out now, why would they play at all if it's passive, they'd show up play 1 or 2 games then leave. The game needs to be fun to play. Masking that with an SP grind is part of the problem. Removing the SP cap will just add to the grind feel of Dust, and make it feel like a job.
Passive SP only would get rid of afkers and solve other problems as well, including the grind. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1416
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:calisk galern wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap. this I never want to see, if people don't play after capping out now, why would they play at all if it's passive, they'd show up play 1 or 2 games then leave. The game needs to be fun to play. Masking that with an SP grind is part of the problem. Removing the SP cap will just add to the grind feel of Dust, and make it feel like a job. Passive SP only would get rid of afkers and solve other problems as well, including the grind.
The grind feeling comes from grinding to cap. Getting rid of the cap just makes it so you can play whenever you want, for however long you want, and you get a small SP reward for doing so. Having the cap makes you feel like you are losing and wasting SP when you don't reach it for that week. There would need to be an adjustment to how SP is acquired actively, sure, but its definitely doable.
Getting rid of active SP altogether removes part of their revenue stream (active boosters) and also makes it where playing = isk... and players with lots of isk will just stop playing... there will be no reason to.
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First Prophet
Valor Company Incorporated
746
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap.
This. I'd very much to see this. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
240
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Azura Sakura wrote:Here's a better solution. Move Dust to PC ^_^ (then bring it to ps4 since you are going to remove the turn cap on KB/m I believe)
terrible idea. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
844
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yeah, if they get rid of the cap, they should just get rid of Active SP.
If they simply get rid of the cap, then the no-lifers will no-life it up.
No-lifers are bad m'kay? |
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Dr Stabwounds
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
71
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Honestly, they might as well do it now. There are already people who have a particular role fully maxed out. It's not going to make them any better, only allow them more diverse roles. Removing it would allow people who don't have one maxed out to catch up. Having 2,3,4 roles maxed doesn't matter: once you get one you're on a level playing field. Problem is a lot of people don't have 1 and the cap prevents them from getting there sooner. It would also help the player count I presume. #'s on Tuesday are generally much lower than other days. |
Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
24
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 16:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree to eliminating the active SP caps. It will help the new players more than than the maxed out vets. Help heavies when they get their additional racial suits and tankers when they get their vehicle suits. Help players switch out of nerfed suits, weapons and gear. Increase the player count. Increase booster sales. It's a win win situation. |
MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
262
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:calisk galern wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Truthfully, getting rid of active SP in favor of full passive SP is a much better option for Dust than removing the cap. this I never want to see, if people don't play after capping out now, why would they play at all if it's passive, they'd show up play 1 or 2 games then leave. The game needs to be fun to play. Masking that with an SP grind is part of the problem. Removing the SP cap will just add to the grind feel of Dust, and make it feel like a job. Passive SP only would get rid of afkers and solve other problems as well, including the grind.
LOL no the grind feeling comes from having to play for months and months to be battle effective. |
MlDDLE MANGEMENT
lMPurity
263
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Yeah, if they get rid of the cap, they should just get rid of Active SP.
If they simply get rid of the cap, then the no-lifers will no-life it up.
No-lifers are bad m'kay?
Okay provide proof that a no lifer will damage this game if they have an excessive amount of SP. Explain to this community and to CCP how no lifing has any detrmental effect on this game. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
DUST University Ivy League
97
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
I've about 8M in tanks; currently branching out to GalLogi. 4M in so far... No light at three end of the tunnel. I'd be grinding for at least the end of the year to finish it off; with the necessity that I cap out each week, it's starting to feel like a job. And I already have to deal with that at work
Removing the cap would mean I'd be able to do it in my own time. It might take me just as long to get there, but it wouldn't feel like such a chore. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
410
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
If there wasn't a cap I'd start buying boosters again but atm its a ******* waste lmao hit the cap in a few hours well theres a week of booster gone |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1418
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:If there wasn't a cap I'd start buying boosters again but atm its a ******* waste lmao hit the cap in a few hours well theres a week of booster gone
yup, 3 days active boosters or 7 day with a saturday - saturday stagger is the best way to use active boosters... kind of sad really. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
410
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
The no lifers will always be ahead of us atleast with no cap we can skill into the **** we need to compete how long does it take for a proto suit? |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1418
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Exactly...
probably 10 million SP to be competitive against proto bears in this game.
15-20 mil to have maxed out and 'complete' build.
No SP cap would help new players more than old players. |
captain erection
RhymeSayers
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 17:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
every time i open my eye lids i see light... usually.. unless i've ben abducted and i am in the trunk of a car. |
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