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SIRAJKNIGHT
Dakusuri Assassins
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
The other day at the beginning of an ambush match, an enemy spawned in the middle of our area. So basically he was surround by like 12 blueberrys, poor guy |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3716
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 12:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Cat your engaging in a shouting match and weaking your argument as result. Whats your solution to the problem. Because everyone bitched like hell over the random spawns
Or were not around for that?? Give us the power to select where we want to spawn. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2080
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 20:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Cat your engaging in a shouting match and weaking your argument as result. Whats your solution to the problem. Because everyone bitched like hell over the random spawns
Or were not around for that?? Give us the power to select where we want to spawn.
Yeah that's already how it works, they're called uplinks and mCRUs. |
8213
Grade No.2
57
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 20:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Cat your engaging in a shouting match and weaking your argument as result. Whats your solution to the problem. Because everyone bitched like hell over the random spawns
Or were not around for that?? Give us the power to select where we want to spawn. Yeah that's already how it works, they're called uplinks and mCRUs.
There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site.
This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you.
There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me.
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2080
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:05:00 -
[65] - Quote
8213 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Cat your engaging in a shouting match and weaking your argument as result. Whats your solution to the problem. Because everyone bitched like hell over the random spawns
Or were not around for that?? Give us the power to select where we want to spawn. Yeah that's already how it works, they're called uplinks and mCRUs. There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site. This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you. There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me.
They already tried this, and the playerbase through a huge fit about always spawning far away from the action. |
8213
Grade No.2
58
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Cat Merc wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Cat your engaging in a shouting match and weaking your argument as result. Whats your solution to the problem. Because everyone bitched like hell over the random spawns
Or were not around for that?? Give us the power to select where we want to spawn. Yeah that's already how it works, they're called uplinks and mCRUs. There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site. This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you. There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me. They already tried this, and the playerbase through a huge fit about always spawning far away from the action.
That shows the Logic Core of that particular Function is flawed. The game will spawn people 500m away from the nearest enemy, why can't it spawn it 250m, 100m, or even 50m? And where enemies are not facing. That would still give you the 3-5 seconds of life that should be expected.
Call of Duty can pull it off with maps 1/20th the size of DUST maps, and with an instant respawn logic while the player only has 100HP. Why can't DUST?
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Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2080
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:23:00 -
[67] - Quote
8213 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote: There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site.
This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you.
There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me.
They already tried this, and the playerbase through a huge fit about always spawning far away from the action. That shows the Logic Core of that particular Function is flawed. The game will spawn people 500m away from the nearest enemy, why can't it spawn it 250m, 100m, or even 50m? And where enemies are not facing. That would still give you the 3-5 seconds of life that should be expected. Call of Duty can pull it off with maps 1/20th the size of DUST maps, and with an instant respawn logic while the player only has 100HP. Why can't DUST?
So your argument is that CCP should entirely remove the need for uplinks and mCRUs in ambush?
If the spawn system just spawns you in that perfect window where no one is looking at you, but you're just 3-5 seconds away from ambushing the other team every single spawn, where exactly is the fun?
The enemy doesn't need to manage their spawn points at all, they just automatically get spawned in the best possible location?
How would this sort of spawning even be countered? Wouldn't it result in being constantly shot from behind by perfectly spawning enemies? Wouldn't it basically make the game just like playing Deathmatch in CoD, just high speed rounds where the enemy is constantly spawning in your blind spots and killing you?
No thanks.
I personally think the fix is to simply have the same red line spawning mechanics as skirmish. Forget the random spawn entirely. You spawn in the redline or in your MCC, and your team places and defends uplinks where they want their spawn locations to be. How is this not the most tactical and obvious fix to the problem? This way teams have 100% control over where they spawn. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3728
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote: There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site.
This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you.
There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me.
They already tried this, and the playerbase through a huge fit about always spawning far away from the action. That shows the Logic Core of that particular Function is flawed. The game will spawn people 500m away from the nearest enemy, why can't it spawn it 250m, 100m, or even 50m? And where enemies are not facing. That would still give you the 3-5 seconds of life that should be expected. Call of Duty can pull it off with maps 1/20th the size of DUST maps, and with an instant respawn logic while the player only has 100HP. Why can't DUST? So your argument is that CCP should entirely remove the need for uplinks and mCRUs in ambush? If the spawn system just spawns you in that perfect window where no one is looking at you, but you're just 3-5 seconds away from ambushing the other team every single spawn, where exactly is the fun? The enemy doesn't need to manage their spawn points at all, they just automatically get spawned in the best possible location? How would this sort of spawning even be countered? Wouldn't it result in being constantly shot from behind by perfectly spawning enemies? Wouldn't it basically make the game just like playing Deathmatch in CoD, just high speed rounds where the enemy is constantly spawning in your blind spots and killing you? No thanks. I personally think the fix is to simply have the same red line spawning mechanics as skirmish. Forget the random spawn entirely. You spawn in the redline or in your MCC, and your team places and defends uplinks where they want their spawn locations to be. How is this not the most tactical and obvious fix to the problem? This way teams have 100% control over where they spawn. I'm pretty sure they already had such a game mode, and players didn't like it. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2080
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:8213 wrote: There still isn't any fix for when the match starts and you spawn into the enemy. And sometimes, your team gets over run and you can't use uplinks, so instead of giving your team a fighting chance the game fucks you over even more. This is why most Ambush games are won by landslides. I can't tell you how many flawless matches I've had because the game kept spawning the enemy right in front of my site.
This screws over 200K ISK suits and mostly AURUM users. The game wants you to buy and use AURUM, but the game itself will cost you that gear. So why would I buy AURUM? The spawns need to be fixed, they can be like any other game's spawns, spawn you in the least likely spot to be harmed (the general rule in FPS spawn is, spawn in a spot where the player has 3-5 seconds of life). In a game with maps as massive as these and a spawn delay counter, the logic system can determine the best spawn for you.
There is always a way to play around the bugs and glitches, but I want to play the game anyway I want to play it, I don't want the game to be making decisions for me.
They already tried this, and the playerbase through a huge fit about always spawning far away from the action. That shows the Logic Core of that particular Function is flawed. The game will spawn people 500m away from the nearest enemy, why can't it spawn it 250m, 100m, or even 50m? And where enemies are not facing. That would still give you the 3-5 seconds of life that should be expected. Call of Duty can pull it off with maps 1/20th the size of DUST maps, and with an instant respawn logic while the player only has 100HP. Why can't DUST? So your argument is that CCP should entirely remove the need for uplinks and mCRUs in ambush? If the spawn system just spawns you in that perfect window where no one is looking at you, but you're just 3-5 seconds away from ambushing the other team every single spawn, where exactly is the fun? The enemy doesn't need to manage their spawn points at all, they just automatically get spawned in the best possible location? How would this sort of spawning even be countered? Wouldn't it result in being constantly shot from behind by perfectly spawning enemies? Wouldn't it basically make the game just like playing Deathmatch in CoD, just high speed rounds where the enemy is constantly spawning in your blind spots and killing you? No thanks. I personally think the fix is to simply have the same red line spawning mechanics as skirmish. Forget the random spawn entirely. You spawn in the redline or in your MCC, and your team places and defends uplinks where they want their spawn locations to be. How is this not the most tactical and obvious fix to the problem? This way teams have 100% control over where they spawn. I'm pretty sure they already had such a game mode, and players didn't like it.
Yeah, that's the problem. People want ambush to play like CoD. I suppose it's a losing argument to suggest the mode require actual tactics and team play. I'll just concede at this point and say; if you want ambush to be mindless lone wolfing, so be it. I just figure, if you want to play CoD, why not play CoD? |
8213
Grade No.2
60
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
The argument is lost. The spawns are GARBAGE.
1. Why do they have you spawn invisible? This was just a band-aid on a broken logic.
2. There is a middle ground as to where the spawns should be, like any other TDM.
3. Talking in circles has gotten you no where. The spawns are junk, and CCP will try to keep fixing them like they have been since they started building DUST 514 |
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2597
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
In domination, a CRU put me in front of where a red was already firing. |
Dimmu Borgir II
Consolidated Dust
22
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 22:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
They need to keep the on-the-fly calculations to a minimum as there's only so much the game can do before starting to lag and slow frame rate down so no, they can't all of a sudden start calculating where's the safest place to put you by checking everyone's ******* viewing angles and lines of sight dynamically!! What's wrong with spawning in with an uplink and placing it down somewhere safe and playing as a team??? Jesus, that's what I always do and yeah, you'll die sometimes but my advice is don't blind-spawn a 200k suit!! The real problem I have with ambush is when it ends the match when there are still more than 10 of you on the battlefield and you're holding off a the enemy, slowly hacking away at their clone count from 50 to 20 and thinking you may actually win after all when all of a sudden, bang, end of match!!
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Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3731
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 23:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
Dimmu Borgir II wrote:They need to keep the on-the-fly calculations to a minimum as there's only so much the game can do before starting to lag and slow frame rate down so no, they can't all of a sudden start calculating where's the safest place to put you by checking everyone's ******* viewing angles and lines of sight dynamically!! What's wrong with spawning in with an uplink and placing it down somewhere safe and playing as a team??? Jesus, that's what I always do and yeah, you'll die sometimes but my advice is don't blind-spawn a 200k suit!! The real problem I have with ambush is when it ends the match when there are still more than 10 of you on the battlefield and you're holding off a the enemy, slowly hacking away at their clone count from 50 to 20 and thinking you may actually win after all when all of a sudden, bang, end of match!!
Yes, because battle server calculations are totally done by the PS3, right? |
Dimmu Borgir II
Consolidated Dust
23
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 23:37:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Dimmu Borgir II wrote:They need to keep the on-the-fly calculations to a minimum as there's only so much the game can do before starting to lag and slow frame rate down so no, they can't all of a sudden start calculating where's the safest place to put you by checking everyone's ******* viewing angles and lines of sight dynamically!! What's wrong with spawning in with an uplink and placing it down somewhere safe and playing as a team??? Jesus, that's what I always do and yeah, you'll die sometimes but my advice is don't blind-spawn a 200k suit!! The real problem I have with ambush is when it ends the match when there are still more than 10 of you on the battlefield and you're holding off a the enemy, slowly hacking away at their clone count from 50 to 20 and thinking you may actually win after all when all of a sudden, bang, end of match!!
Yes, because battle server calculations are totally done by the PS3, right?
Memory leaks... Who said anything about the PS3 making server-side calculations??? I'm a software developer and more specifically a web-app developer specifically focused on server-side applications so don't attempt to put words into my mouth as the frame-rate issue was just one of knock-on effects that I mentioned, I also mentioned lag and if you know anything about software development and the horrific process that is games development you'll realize that the PS3 still has to do something with the information it receives and sends and asking it for one extra process or to record and relay one extra individual variable (it would be more like hundreds for what they're asking for in this thread) that they potentially don't currently keep in memory is still something that they don't want to do if they don't have to as we're already experiencing a terrible memory-leak problem with this game as it is which they're unable to fix so why make it worse? |
Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.02 15:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Funny, because I play plenty of deathmatch in tons of games, and rarely do I encounter a spawn system as bad as dust where you can die 2 seconds after you spawn. There are exceptions, always, but Dust's system fucks up constantly. I would say 80% of spawns are terrible. Was gonna write just this. I've never had any problems with the spawn system in any other FPS. Sure, it happened occasionally, but sometimes you're just unlucky. But it wasn't consistently, systematically. The problem with random spawn is that it gives you the impression of being completely random, but in fact there are fixed invisible spawnpoints which the game selects "randomly" from.
It is not clear what kind of FPS CCP wants this to be. In most tactical FPS games the games is worked out so that you understand that you more or less have to play tactically and communicatively to succeed and enjoy the game without having that info smacked in your face. The game mechanics just implies that. In other words, you learn intuitively what type of FPS it is. In Dust, there is both ways, and both ways are half ways... From the visions, ideas, demos and basically everything they have showed off up until the very release have had the clear message that Dust is supposed to be a tactical shooter with focus on teamwork and roles, which you partly make up yourself. But seeing how the game actually works today, one cannot make anything out through the darkness and fog... (Resident evil quote). It seems they're not entirely sure themselves right now. I assume they are working their asses off to sort that out and make this game stable (not just from a tech view), whatever that may be in the end. |
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