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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
2750
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Noticing the thread posted earlier on magazine size made me want to bring up a point I've made before:
I don't believe the magazine size is an issue, or that the weapon needs some kind of jamming feature or overheat to balance it out.
The only issue there seems to be with that weapon is the very low rate of dispersion build. With the way the weapon functions right now, and especially with the AR skills and Sharpshooter skill, at higher levels you can shoot through your entire magazine with no major loss of accuracy. Even at lower skill levels you can still fire for quite a while before your accuracy starts to suffer.
I think the only change that they Gallente Assault Rifle needs is an increase to the rate of dispersion increase in order to incentivize firing in long bursts as opposed to just holding down the trigger.
Also, to reiterate another point I made in that thread:
Mobius Wyvern wrote: I'll tell you one thing: when Wolfman and his team finish up the new aim-assist system and we get performance updates to keep the framerate stable to help it work properly, GD is going to be DROWNING in OP AR threads.
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Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3651
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
I support this thread just to stop people from whining about the AR. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1169
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a scout, this worries me a lot! |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
877
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Or you could say something about how plasma works best when it is freshly 'spun' or when the charges aren't streaming for long. You could give the gallente AR a kind of 'heat mechanic' where it started 105%damaged when charged, and the plasma would do down to 75% of its damage if you hold it for longer periods.
So it would effectively be the opposite of the laser rifle. It would never 'overheat' but would do the most damage if you fire it a little slower.
So like the first 10 rounds hit for around 105%, next 20 rounds hit for about 100%, every 10 rounds after that lose about 10% of their damage if constantly fired. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3517
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3651
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Or you could say something about how plasma works best when it is freshly 'spun' or when the charges aren't streaming for long. You could give the gallente AR a kind of 'heat mechanic' where it started 105%damaged when charged, and the plasma would do down to 75% of its damage if you hold it for longer periods.
So it would effectively be the opposite of the laser rifle. It would never 'overheat' but would do the most damage if you fire it a little slower. 105% damage? Why not 125%? *Grins* |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3651
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
2752
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Agreed. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3517
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| Yeah, we all know the breach needs a buff. Let's just not have a repeat of beta |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
847
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3517
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players. TAC AR is still usable, and used quite often lol. It's just not a "I win button" at all ranges. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
848
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players. TAC AR is still usable, and used quite often lol. It's just not a "I win button" at all ranges.
An Assault Rifle is an "all situations" weapon... that is what it is by design.. the reason why every front line soldier, in every army in the world have one. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
877
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :|
It just baffles me that there is this much disparity. Although the breach will eventually be the combat rifle right? But of all the racial variant AR clones you'd think the Gallente AR would have the best close range ARs. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
877
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| Yeah, we all know the breach needs a buff. Let's just not have a repeat of beta
Does it get a better bonus to headshots? |
Anita Hardone
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
202
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here how it would most likely play out if that were to happen:
AR is OP legit. *dispersion is increased* *people move to the SR because it hasnt changed*
*SR is now deemed OP for some reason* OMG screw Scramble Rfles, too accurate. *increased recoil and dispersion* (lol for a gun that shoots lasers why does it even have recoil anyways)
*People then pick up ARs again* AR's OP, too good against shields. *nerf to shield damage*
*Shotgun is FOTM* Shotgun Thread *nerfd back into oblivion*
*people go back to roadkilling everything* Constant QQ about LAV's *CCP removes LAV's altogether for "re-balancing"*
*Sub Machine Gun is FOTM* Sub Machine Gun is too powerful. *base damage nerf*
*Lazer rifles make a come back* Laser rifle is the best infantry ranged weapon. *CCP now make it useless again by decreasing its range*
*Now we cant carry enough ammo to kill one person* CCP acknowledges this with a vague post that doesnt really reveal or confirm much of anything. *Shield and Armor capacity is ninja nerfd 24 hours after the dev post*
*Sniper Rifles can OHK everything now* People complain about MCC/Redline snipers. *...nothing happens...*
*maps now seem even more desolate because of the new effective ranges of all weapons* All firefights except those with forges and snipers must be withing 20 meters to do damage/hit an enemy. *CCP realizes this an therefore decreases all skirmish maps by 1/2*
.... and thats as far as my minds eye will let me see.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3524
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Posted - 2013.07.31 13:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players. TAC AR is still usable, and used quite often lol. It's just not a "I win button" at all ranges. An Assault Rifle is an "all situations" weapon... that is what it is by design.. the reason why every front line soldier, in every army in the world have one. If you want to resort to real life examples, compare the TAC AR to a SOCAR .308 |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
877
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Anita Hardone wrote:Here how it would most likely play out if that were to happen:
AR is OP legit. *dispersion is increased* *people move to the SR because it hasnt changed*
*SR is now deemed OP for some reason* OMG screw Scramble Rfles, too accurate. *increased recoil and dispersion* (lol for a gun that shoots lasers why does it even have recoil anyways)
*People then pick up ARs again* AR's OP, too good against shields. *nerf to shield damage*
*Shotgun is FOTM* Shotgun Thread *nerfd back into oblivion*
*people go back to roadkilling everything* Constant QQ about LAV's *CCP removes LAV's altogether for "re-balancing"*
*Sub Machine Gun is FOTM* Sub Machine Gun is too powerful. *base damage nerf*
*Lazer rifles make a come back* Laser rifle is the best infantry ranged weapon. *CCP now make it useless again by decreasing its range*
*Now we cant carry enough ammo to kill one person* CCP acknowledges this with a vague post that doesnt really reveal or confirm much of anything. *Shield and Armor capacity is ninja nerfd 24 hours after the dev post*
*Sniper Rifles can OHK everything now* People complain about MCC/Redline snipers. *...nothing happens...*
*maps now seem even more desolate because of the new effective ranges of all weapons* All firefights except those with forges and snipers must be withing 20 meters to do damage/hit an enemy. *CCP realizes this an therefore decreases all skirmish maps by 1/2*
.... and thats as far as my minds eye will let me see.
I really want CCP to stand their ground on the unique weapon profiles. What we need is either more post-game analysis tools (CREST) or real-time awareness in the HUD. We need to know that its glaringly stupid to engage at ranges your weapons aren't made to engage at. Players NEED TO START MAKING MORE RATIONAL DECISIONS IN BATTLE. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
2757
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| It just baffles me that there is this much disparity. Although the breach will eventually be the combat rifle right? But of all the racial variant AR clones you'd think the Gallente AR would have the best close range ARs. No, the Breach is the equivalent of the Rail Rifle. The Burst AR is the equivalent of the Combat Rifle. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
877
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| It just baffles me that there is this much disparity. Although the breach will eventually be the combat rifle right? But of all the racial variant AR clones you'd think the Gallente AR would have the best close range ARs. No, the Breach is the equivalent of the Rail Rifle. The Burst AR is the equivalent of the Combat Rifle.
Okay, that really makes no sense then that the Gallente's shortest range AR would be a clone of what supposedly will be the longest range rifle variants... |
Mamertine Son
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players.
Friend, we want variety. The AR should be easy to use in combat but right now its power and accuracy are making it really hard to want to wield anything else. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
2761
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Just to clarify, this should only be on the full auto AR as a way to encourage people to use the TAC, breach, and burst AR. Nobody will use the Breach. 100 less DPS than the normal AR. :| It just baffles me that there is this much disparity. Although the breach will eventually be the combat rifle right? But of all the racial variant AR clones you'd think the Gallente AR would have the best close range ARs. No, the Breach is the equivalent of the Rail Rifle. The Burst AR is the equivalent of the Combat Rifle. Okay, that really makes no sense then that the Gallente's shortest range AR would be a clone of what supposedly will be the longest range rifle variants... I think the idea is to offer a similar rate of fire and dispersion, but with a more Gallente focus of doing heavy damage up close.
The only problem is that it has been nerfed into being useless ever since the E3 build ended. Uprising improved it, but not enough. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
75
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
I totally agree CCP somewhat messed up with all the placeholder weapons |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
436
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
I agree, AR does not need overheat/jamming, it needs to have dispersion for continued fire. |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
518
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Posted - 2013.07.31 14:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Beren Hurin wrote: It just baffles me that there is this much disparity. Although the breach will eventually be the combat rifle right? But of all the racial variant AR clones you'd think the Gallente AR would have the best close range ARs.
No, the Breach is the equivalent of the Rail Rifle. The Burst AR is the equivalent of the Combat Rifle. Okay, that really makes no sense then that the Gallente's shortest range AR would be a clone of what supposedly will be the longest range rifle variants... I think the idea is to offer a similar rate of fire and dispersion, but with a more Gallente focus of doing heavy damage up close. The only problem is that it has been nerfed into being useless ever since the E3 build ended. Uprising improved it, but not enough. The way I see it the Breach AR is the Gallente Blaster that tries to mimic the... Gallente Blaster?
That's kinda the problem, it's the only Gallente AR that makes a token effort at operating akin to what the weapon is supposed to be.
It being superseded by the standard model for CQC DPS is a separate issue. |
Jimthefighter
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.07.31 15:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:When this is going to end ? The AR gets nerf, after nerf, after nerf...is like the never ending story. You may also start nerfing players too .. because you like it or not, the AR is a favorite weapon for FPS players. TAC AR is still usable, and used quite often lol. It's just not a "I win button" at all ranges. An Assault Rifle is an "all situations" weapon... that is what it is by design.. the reason why every front line soldier, in every army in the world have one.
However, an "all situations" weapon doesn't mean it excels in all situations. The Assault Rifle should be a Jack of All Trades (master of some). It should do well at short range (it's the Gallente weapon, would be REALLY nice to have the other Rifles to balance against) but weapons built for short range (Shotgun, Scrambler Pistol, SMG) should really compete against it. They should be relatively even fighting/losses with a slight advantage built towards those short range only weapons.
However, those same short-range weapons shouldn't be able to compete against the Blaster Rifle (going to just call it that from now on) in mid-range combat, but neither should it excel in mid-range combat (gallente AR == short range primary as stated before in dev blogs), it should be other weapons, like the Scrambler Rifle, the yet to be introduced Combat Rifle, ect. What that means is that normally, the Blaster Rifle should, most times excluding skill and using the same meta, lose to those weapons at mid-range. Right now, it'd probably be the opposite.
And at long range (relative to normal combat ranges, sniper and forge gun ranges NOT included), the Blaster Rifle should almost always lose to the Precision Rifle and Rail Rifle and whatever other normal direct combat weapon there might be.
I'm mostly excluding weapons like the MD, PC, SR, FG, and others, mostly because they should have specialty roles such as crowd suppression/elimination, don't quite know/CQC death?, extreme range damage, long range AV, ect.
The biggest problem right now for trying to balance the Blaster Rifle is that since all of the various classes of Assault Rifles are not there, it's been given essentially free reign over ranges where it should be quite as effective as it is. The Scrambler Rifle is here now, so the Blaster Rifle shouldn't be able to out damage it at mid-range. It's not built for it, so it shouldn't be able to do it. It'd be nice if the ranges of combat were defined, as in meters given, for each of the standard ranges (short, mid, long, in meters please). Maybe then we'd be able to have a real numbers discussion. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
771
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Posted - 2013.07.31 15:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
... I'm not even going to bother.
Cry for moar nerfs on AR, turn it to ****.. i'm done with it. ASCR is my new toy, you want to see fast accurate gun with little dispersion.. you got it |
Revelations 514
Red Star. EoN.
94
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Posted - 2013.07.31 16:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
I agree wholeheartedly OP +1
Its bad when my 0SP invested militia AR tears people down faster than my SG which is maxx'ed out in every category except ammo capacity. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3573
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Posted - 2013.07.31 16:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:I totally agree CCP somewhat messed up with all the placeholder weapons Remnant admitted to this in a TAC AR topic. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1361
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Posted - 2013.07.31 16:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Noticing the thread posted earlier on magazine size made me want to bring up a point I've made before: I don't believe the magazine size is an issue, or that the weapon needs some kind of jamming feature or overheat to balance it out. The only issue there seems to be with that weapon is the very low rate of dispersion build. With the way the weapon functions right now, and especially with the AR skills and Sharpshooter skill, at higher levels you can shoot through your entire magazine with no major loss of accuracy. Even at lower skill levels you can still fire for quite a while before your accuracy starts to suffer. I think the only change that they Gallente Assault Rifle needs is an increase to the rate of dispersion increase in order to incentivize firing in long bursts as opposed to just holding down the trigger. Also, to reiterate another point I made in that thread: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I'll tell you one thing: when Wolfman and his team finish up the new aim-assist system and we get performance updates to keep the framerate stable to help it work properly, GD is going to be DROWNING in OP AR threads.
Good points, but the standard AR line also carries way too many rounds. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
771
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Posted - 2013.07.31 16:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Wait until we all running around with ASCR
only need lvl 1 skill to unlock the aur lvl 4 ASCR , the SCR skill itself is basically no factor in it's use whatever.. and is already stronger and more accurate than any AR we got.
Only a few more matches and I will have mine trained to lvl 4 and no more using the aur version. It will be all I run now since my AR seems to be overpopulating and you want to die by something else |
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