DUST Search - Ninja updates: Why in the world???

Duran Lex wrote:

I'm not sure what this anger is all about really.

Learning how skirmish works takes two things : Reading the loading screen that tells you what the skirmish gamemode is, and playing 1 single game of skirmish.

Skirmish is an entirely squad dependent game mode that takes team coordination and the use of tactics. None of which is learned perfectly over the short span of the BA. That takes running with squad members you know, or members who are at least familiar enough with basic tactics to easily coordinate with. None of which are available in BA, because everyone is learning.

Lets not kid ourselves, skirmish isn't a complicated game mode...and the argument of "teaching them how to hack" is moot point, considering you only have to press a button to hack something. my 9 year old nephew who has no idea what he is doing while playing dust, runs around and hacks things, so i cant see that as a problem with newberries.

The main problem with newberries coming out of the BA, is they have no idea how to effectively combat the enemy force. They didn't learn to strafe, didn't learn to use cover, didn't find their balance of when to ADS and when to hipfire, didn't discover optimal ranges. In many cases they havn't even discovered their personal weapon of choice to use by the time they are thrown out of the academy, and are struck trying to learn new weapons against protobears.

The new BA teaches them the one thing that is absolutely vital for anyone playing any game mode : How dust FPS mechanics work against other players. Running or driving to unguarded objectives and hacking for 100 WP's without ever coming across an enemy teaches a new player nothing, and then boots them out of the academy faster with that ignorance.

Yes, skirmish is the most fun of all the game modes, and yes it requires strategy instead of just running and gunning. But those things are learned by vets teaching you the strategies, or on your own by trial and error...neither of which are learned through the short span of the BA. This change is not a big deal.

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THEAMAZING POTHEAD Pure Innocence. EoN. 147	Posted - 2013.07.31 00:19:00 - [31] - Quote guys dont mind IWS, the real dusties haven't taken him seriously for ages, yes i know he just called all your opinions invalid, but we just have to deal with it, hes just another one of CCPs bad decisions.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Auxiliaries 623	Posted - 2013.07.31 01:09:00 - [32] - Quote Pandora Mars wrote: Title pretty much says it all. I guess CCP doesn't want our opinion... Battle Academy got a huge change, my younger brother is trying the game right now and I'm guiding him. How can someone possibly enjoy that? And since there's not any tutorial, new players might think the whole game consists in 8v8 Ambushes... and insta-quit. The first time I played I thought the Academy was the "real" DUST. Why even making patch notes? At this point call them "surprise packs" and let people realize their Flaylock is no more a win button while in game (sarcasm here, but that would be actually fun)! .............I'm stunned. In order for the game to get better. Not every change makes sense to have a three week public forum approval period - followed by same time under Sony review. Especially as the forums very very rarely agree. While all that being said, I do personally hate the true ninja nerfs where changes aren't told even after the said patch.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 322	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:31:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: and Ultimately, all of your opinions are nearly invalid for one reason, you're all veterans of Dust 514, it is consistently amazing how skewed one's vision of how a new player experience can be once they are veterans, I have done this in real world dozens of times in the military and every time we grab an entirely clueless guy to run something he constantly runs into something that the guys who been running that shop for the last year the rookie missed because it wasn't mentioned and that knowledge was not passed down. What does this mean for me though? As a CPM I am probably going to question why? and then suggest a few additional changes while they're at it, after all nothing is set in stone. Lol "all your opininons are nearly invalid for one reason, you're veterans of Dust" Dafuq ? How does that make any sense and sorry but you can't compare military appeal and progression towards a video game.. You being a Dust veteran yourself, should realize and respect how our outlook and/or opinions are extremely valid.... You saying any different is a disrespectful insult to the community and your fellow CPM members.... Being Dust 514's limited advertisement and motivation to bring in new players, us "clueless veterans" word of mouth and friends of friends are the only hope for Dust's survival.. There are already countless negatives we have to warn our "new players" about so they can keep their head above water long enough to get a foot in the door of competitive play... What you're doing as a worthless CPM representative is encouraging new players to have a skewed vision of what Dust is and continue to disconnect yourself because of your lack of humility and understanding for the new and the old player base...
iii 3 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:55:00 - [34] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: and Ultimately, all of your opinions are nearly invalid for one reason, you're all veterans of Dust 514, it is consistently amazing how skewed one's vision of how a new player experience can be once they are veterans, I have done this in real world dozens of times in the military and every time we grab an entirely clueless guy to run something he constantly runs into something that the guys who been running that shop for the last year the rookie missed because it wasn't mentioned and that knowledge was not passed down. What does this mean for me though? As a CPM I am probably going to question why? and then suggest a few additional changes while they're at it, after all nothing is set in stone. Lol "all your opininons are nearly invalid for one reason, you're veterans of Dust" Dafuq ? How does that make any sense and sorry but you can't compare military appeal and progression towards a video game.. You being a Dust veteran yourself, should realize and respect how our outlook and/or opinions are extremely valid.... You saying any different is a disrespectful insult to the community and your fellow CPM members.... Being Dust 514's limited advertisement and motivation to bring in new players, us "clueless veterans" word of mouth and friends of friends are the only hope for Dust's survival.. There are already countless negatives we have to warn our "new players" about so they can keep their head above water long enough to get a foot in the door of competitive play... What you're doing as a worthless CPM representative is encouraging new players to have a skewed vision of what Dust is and continue to disconnect yourself because of your lack of humility and understanding for the new and the old player base... Having been a DUST member for only 2 months, I'm an clueless as to who the "big dogs" are, but I can recognize a truly epic response when I see one.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3227	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:56:00 - [35] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ...this could be a step in the direction of better training and understanding of the game. lol... I'm done... seriously. btw, 'likes' suggests people agree with a point / idea / opinion. So long as it wasn't a clear troll, one might take it into consideration cuz that's how people get to know the general feeling of the community towards something. But again, what do I know Also, saying people's opinion's are "invalid" cuz they're veterans?... Clear indication that some CPM members don't care 2 ***** about what the community says cuz it's not the idea of the almighty CPM. I sensed some arrogance in the AMA, and this cements it for me. Why listen to the community when CPM knows best hey?!
Evil-Stuffed-Animal Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 56	Posted - 2013.07.31 06:09:00 - [36] - Quote I think that CCP should just stick to making "space" games and leave the fps' elements to the big boys. This game was mildly enjoyable before they deployed that god-awful "Uprising" build. Furthermore, is it me or does this game get worse with each update? . . . nevermind . . . you don't have to answer that. lol I'm sorry to sound so harsh CCP, but you guys keep trying and that's what makes the game worse. Here's what you should do: scrap the game, hire veteran devs to develop a better game and start over because you could stick a fork in this one (for me at least). Oh and . . . what does "514" mean anyway?
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 259	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:03:00 - [37] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Why listen to the community when CPM knows best hey?! Not taking sides in this argument, but just want to point out, the 'community' doesn't know best either. If you can point to 1 thread, just 1 thread, with a decent number of replies where everyone is agreed on a certain point, I'll take my words back. Half the time you have people complaining about one thing and a bunch of other people trolling them.. You turn around and there's another thread up on the same matter with the trolls complaining this time, and the whiners trolling them...
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 259	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:06:00 - [38] - Quote Evil-Stuffed-Animal wrote: I think that CCP should just stick to making "space" games and leave the fps' elements to the big boys. This game was mildly enjoyable before they deployed that god-awful "Uprising" build. Furthermore, is it me or does this game get worse with each update? . . . nevermind . . . you don't have to answer that. lol I'm sorry to sound so harsh CCP, but you guys keep trying and that's what makes the game worse. Here's what you should do: scrap the game, hire veteran devs to develop a better game and start over because you could stick a fork in this one (for me at least). Oh and . . . what does "514" mean anyway? So if you're that fed up, why wouldn't you leave and go pay for a game one of the 'big boys' are making or have made? You claim Dust is dying/dead. How does hiring other people, and also spending more money and starting from scratch mean that CCP can 'save' their game? It doesn't make any sense from a business and commercial perspective.
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.31 12:43:00 - [39] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: and Ultimately, all of your opinions are nearly invalid for one reason, you're all veterans of Dust 514, it is consistently amazing how skewed one's vision of how a new player experience can be once they are veterans, I have done this in real world dozens of times in the military and every time we grab an entirely clueless guy to run something he constantly runs into something that the guys who been running that shop for the last year the rookie missed because it wasn't mentioned and that knowledge was not passed down. What does this mean for me though? As a CPM I am probably going to question why? and then suggest a few additional changes while they're at it, after all nothing is set in stone. Lol "all your opininons are nearly invalid for one reason, you're veterans of Dust" Dafuq ? How does that make any sense and sorry but you can't compare military appeal and progression towards a video game.. You being a Dust veteran yourself, should realize and respect how our outlook and/or opinions are extremely valid.... You saying any different is a disrespectful insult to the community and your fellow CPM members.... Being Dust 514's limited advertisement and motivation to bring in new players, us "clueless veterans" word of mouth and friends of friends are the only hope for Dust's survival.. There are already countless negatives we have to warn our "new players" about so they can keep their head above water long enough to get a foot in the door of competitive play... What you're doing as a worthless CPM representative is encouraging new players to have a skewed vision of what Dust is and continue to disconnect yourself because of your lack of humility and understanding for the new and the old player base... Wow some heart put into a response as well, I can tell ya two things. As a newer player to Dust I can not stand Anbush if I didn't realize skirmish was a game type from the beginning I wouldn't be here the little time that I can... Second unfortunately from reading this guys CPM posts he has none of what you mention... Sort of an egotistical matter of fact opinion, the type that always has to feel like hes correct but hey im a new guy what do I know. My 2 cents anyhow!
Bad Heal ROGUE SPADES EoN. 34	Posted - 2013.07.31 12:52:00 - [40] - Quote So to the topic of Ninja updates... they happen all the time. Only played about 5 matches since update and found one already. Equipment cannot be deployed as fast. It must reload every time it is selected. try it.

ADP Silenced Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2013.07.31 12:54:00 - [41] - Quote The old model of the Academy was about randomness...To give noobies a taste before they could get to choose which style(Skirmish/Ambush)... This new academy model is like saying "Here you go, we will give you this small sandbox section of dust to play with, while the grown-ups go to the beach" I'm sorry but this change is big for its First Impression aspect of the game https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98671&find=unread
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 1728	Posted - 2013.07.31 13:04:00 - [42] - Quote If I wood have been stuck with 8v8 the first time I logged into Dust. I would have deleted the game, then and there.
Duran Lex Silver Talon Corporation 126	Posted - 2013.07.31 13:21:00 - [43] - Quote I'm not sure what this anger is all about really. Learning how to skirmish takes two things : Reading the loading screen that tells you what the skirmish gamemode is, and playing 1 single game of skirmish. Skirmish is an entirely squad dependent game mode that takes team coordination and the use of tactics. None of which is learned perfectly over the short span of the BA. That takes running with squad members you know, or members who are at least familiar enough with basic tactics to easily coordinate with. None of which are available in BA, because everyone is learning. Lets not kid ourselves, skirmish isn't a complicated game mode...and the argument of "teaching them how to hack" is moot point, considering you only have to press a button to hack something. my 9 year old nephew who has no idea what he is doing while playing dust, runs around and hacks things, so i cant see that as a problem with newberries. The main problem with newberries coming out of the BA, is they have no idea how to effectively combat the enemy force. They didn't learn to strafe, didn't learn to use cover, didn't find their balance of when to ADS and when to hipfire, didn't discover optimal ranges. In many cases they havn't even discovered their personal weapon of choice to use by the time they are thrown out of the academy, and are struck trying to learn new weapons against protobears. The new BA teaches them the one thing that is absolutely vital for anyone playing any game mode : How dust FPS mechanics work against other players. Running or driving to unguarded objectives and hacking for 100 WP's without ever coming across an enemy teaches a new player nothing, and then boots them out of the academy faster with that ignorance. Yes, skirmish is the most fun of all the game modes, and yes it requires strategy instead of just running and gunning. But those things are learned by vets teaching you the strategies, or on your own by trial and error...neither of which are learned through the short span of the BA. This change is not a big deal.
ADP Silenced Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:19:00 - [44] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: I'm not sure what this anger is all about really. Learning how skirmish works takes two things : Reading the loading screen that tells you what the skirmish gamemode is, and playing 1 single game of skirmish. Skirmish is an entirely squad dependent game mode that takes team coordination and the use of tactics. None of which is learned perfectly over the short span of the BA. That takes running with squad members you know, or members who are at least familiar enough with basic tactics to easily coordinate with. None of which are available in BA, because everyone is learning. Lets not kid ourselves, skirmish isn't a complicated game mode...and the argument of "teaching them how to hack" is moot point, considering you only have to press a button to hack something. my 9 year old nephew who has no idea what he is doing while playing dust, runs around and hacks things, so i cant see that as a problem with newberries. The main problem with newberries coming out of the BA, is they have no idea how to effectively combat the enemy force. They didn't learn to strafe, didn't learn to use cover, didn't find their balance of when to ADS and when to hipfire, didn't discover optimal ranges. In many cases they havn't even discovered their personal weapon of choice to use by the time they are thrown out of the academy, and are struck trying to learn new weapons against protobears. The new BA teaches them the one thing that is absolutely vital for anyone playing any game mode : How dust FPS mechanics work against other players. Running or driving to unguarded objectives and hacking for 100 WP's without ever coming across an enemy teaches a new player nothing, and then boots them out of the academy faster with that ignorance. Yes, skirmish is the most fun of all the game modes, and yes it requires strategy instead of just running and gunning. But those things are learned by vets teaching you the strategies, or on your own by trial and error...neither of which are learned through the short span of the BA. This change is not a big deal. Ok so this makes ^^^right up there^^^ no sense at all...There are still peeps outside the Academy with PROTO-everything that still don't understand about all these things(If you want proof, I direct you to the SKILL RESPEC threads)...The point isnt about the learning...It is about the game being playable...fun..and replay value. Try playing the same map over and see how long that lasts for you no matter how good you are
Sir Dukey The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 121	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:33:00 - [45] - Quote CoD isAIDS wrote: NIGGSWORM wrote: Pandora Mars wrote: Title pretty much says it all. I guess CCP doesn't want our opinion... Battle Academy got a huge change, my younger brother is trying the game right now and I'm guiding him. How can someone possibly enjoy that? And since there's not any tutorial, new players might think the whole game consists in 8v8 Ambushes... and insta-quit. The first time I played I thought the Academy was the "real" DUST. Why even making patch notes? At this point call them "surprise packs" and let people realize their Flaylock is no more a win button while in game (sarcasm here, but that would be actually fun)! .............I'm stunned. Young boy.... in my days we ain't had none these fancy academy's ya'll young ones play in, we fought the real war, with real weapons like dem outdated guns you see in museums. (black old man voice) Sounds like the earlier Call of Duty games. I'm sorry you mean chromosome
Duran Lex Silver Talon Corporation 126	Posted - 2013.07.31 14:34:00 - [46] - Quote ADP Silenced wrote: Ok so this makes ^^^right up there^^^ no sense at all...There are still peeps outside the Academy with PROTO-everything that still don't understand about all these things(If you want proof, I direct you to the SKILL RESPEC threads)...The point isnt about the learning...It is about the game being playable...fun..and replay value. Try playing the same map over and see how long that lasts for you no matter how good you are The entire point of the BA is learning in a environment of peers. It wasn't invented to showcase all the game modes, because you were already able to pick any game mode you wanted prior to the BA. The BA doesn't teach you about skill allocation, so I'm not sure why you felt that was relevant. After 6 months of playing this game, I can tell you now, you'll be playing the same maps over and over again. BA doesn't last 1 week, let alone 6 months.
ADP Silenced Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2013.07.31 15:02:00 - [47] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: After 6 months of playing this game, I can tell you now, you'll be playing the same maps over and over again. BA doesn't last 1 week, let alone 6 months. I can tell u hav not tried BA yet, have you? Again you are missing the big picture, put yourself back to when you were new to Dust, the first time you downloaded this game...are you there? now play this new 8v8 system and tell me how fast it takes before u delete this game and go back to MW...the point isnt about repetitve maps 1 week or even 6 months from now...trying out a game for the very first time and being forced to play the same map for the first 3 hours before u even know what the game is about and having to get through this 8v8 ONE MAP grind fest before the game is unlocked is a big deal....for newbies
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 95	Posted - 2013.07.31 19:08:00 - [48] - Quote I still rather play Chromosome. Too ******* bad I only got to enjoy it for 2 months.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 768	Posted - 2013.07.31 19:12:00 - [49] - Quote Cosgar wrote: They should have just increased the WP requirements to graduate from 10k to 100k with the option to participate in real battles. We've been suggesting this for months across several topics. And it's so painfully obvious. It's hard to believe more than one person could be involved in keeping the academy the way that it is.
J Lav Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 157	Posted - 2013.07.31 19:18:00 - [50] - Quote What I can't for the life of me understand is why Battle Academy is mandatory, and not optional to low WP players. If they want to jump into the other modes, they should be allowed to do so, but access to Battle Academy would only be available to new players. As it is, it is a very poor impression.

dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 270	Posted - 2013.08.01 06:04:00 - [51] - Quote ADP Silenced wrote: Ok so this makes ^^^right up there^^^ no sense at all...There are still peeps outside the Academy with PROTO-everything that still don't understand about all these things(If you want proof, I direct you to the SKILL RESPEC threads)...The point isnt about the learning...It is about the game being playable...fun..and replay value. Try playing the same map over and see how long that lasts for you no matter how good you are Peeps outside the BA with 'proto everything' that don't understand about how to hack, how to work in a squad etc.? CCP should totally cater to brain-dead people like that. In fact, CCP should totally go to their houses, knock on their doors, and teach them how to plug in the ps3 and turn in on. CCP should also hold their dicks for them while they pee since they seem fairly incompetent.
Marston VC SVER True Blood 678	Posted - 2013.08.01 06:25:00 - [52] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Pandora Mars wrote: Title pretty much says it all. I guess CCP doesn't want our opinion... Battle Academy got a huge change, my younger brother is trying the game right now and I'm guiding him. How can someone possibly enjoy that? And since there's not any tutorial, new players might think the whole game consists in 8v8 Ambushes... and insta-quit. The first time I played I thought the Academy was the "real" DUST. Why even making patch notes? At this point call them "surprise packs" and let people realize their Flaylock is no more a win button while in game (sarcasm here, but that would be actually fun)! .............I'm stunned. Lesser the noise the better the focus and btw WAS IN THE NOTES. This also increases time spent in the academy with shorter games. I suspects it also hides lower player pools? Just my guess though...... I am up wayyyyyy later then I should be!
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 353	Posted - 2013.08.01 06:28:00 - [53] - Quote Wow. I thought that the games my younger bro were trying to get into were just really low on people trying to play. Well, **. That really sucks. He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results. CrotchGrab 360 wrote:** You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.
Evil-Stuffed-Animal Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 58	Posted - 2013.08.02 00:09:00 - [54] - Quote dustwaffle wrote: Evil-Stuffed-Animal wrote: I think that CCP should just stick to making "space" games and leave the fps' elements to the big boys. This game was mildly enjoyable before they deployed that god-awful "Uprising" build. Furthermore, is it me or does this game get worse with each update? . . . nevermind . . . you don't have to answer that. lol I'm sorry to sound so harsh CCP, but you guys keep trying and that's what makes the game worse. Here's what you should do: scrap the game, hire veteran devs to develop a better game and start over because you could stick a fork in this one (for me at least). Oh and . . . what does "514" mean anyway? So if you're that fed up, why wouldn't you leave and go pay for a game one of the 'big boys' are making or have made? You claim Dust is dying/dead. How does hiring other people, and also spending more money and starting from scratch mean that CCP can 'save' their game? It doesn't make any sense from a business and commercial perspective. fail you fanboys are too easy lol never said that i was "fed up". I didnt pay for this trash so there's nothing to be fed up about. Id just delete it off my hdd. The only reason I even get on is to chat with clanmates who actually like this game.
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 285	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:13:00 - [55] - Quote Evil-Stuffed-Animal wrote: dustwaffle wrote: Evil-Stuffed-Animal wrote: I think that CCP should just stick to making "space" games and leave the fps' elements to the big boys. This game was mildly enjoyable before they deployed that god-awful "Uprising" build. Furthermore, is it me or does this game get worse with each update? . . . nevermind . . . you don't have to answer that. lol I'm sorry to sound so harsh CCP, but you guys keep trying and that's what makes the game worse. Here's what you should do: scrap the game, hire veteran devs to develop a better game and start over because you could stick a fork in this one (for me at least). Oh and . . . what does "514" mean anyway? So if you're that fed up, why wouldn't you leave and go pay for a game one of the 'big boys' are making or have made? You claim Dust is dying/dead. How does hiring other people, and also spending more money and starting from scratch mean that CCP can 'save' their game? It doesn't make any sense from a business and commercial perspective. fail you fanboys are too easy lol never said that i was "fed up". I didnt pay for this trash so there's nothing to be fed up about. Id just delete it off my hdd. The only reason I even get on is to chat with clanmates who actually like this game. Cool story bro. lol @ thinking 'fanboy' is an insult to be used in place of an actual point or counter-argument.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 241	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:47:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: all of your opinions are nearly invalid for one reason, you're all veterans of Dust 514, it is consistently amazing how skewed one's vision of how a new player experience can be once they are veterans. I was neutral about you until you said this. Now? Now the election can't come fast enough to vote you off the CPM. This right here is exactly why you should not be a CPM member, and this bullshit of you defending the academy changes reeks of CCP apologist over their lack of communication. Veterans are the ones who play this game a ton and have established views that can be useful feedback wise, no matter how they word it. Telling Veterans they don't matter is ignorant at best, and enough to get any rational person to ignore you.
Another Heavy SOB Pure Innocence. EoN. 522	Posted - 2013.08.05 10:54:00 - [57] - Quote Interesting read this thread. Sure hope the rest of the CPM has remained a bit more grounded. Oh, and yeah CCP very bad idea. If I started playing this game and my only battle options were 8v8 Ambush I would quickly walk away. It's simply a bad first impression, especially since normal battle sizes are not specifically mentioned in a tutorial or prior to BA.


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