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Thanks to CCP for fixing PC! (from the ANZACs)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
The Loathing The Southern Legion 178	Posted - 2013.07.26 10:47:00 - [1] - Quote Australia and New Zealand just want to thank you for making PC a viable option for us once again! Our PC matches since the latest update have been great fun to play, and you have truly proven yourselves to be listening to us. My many whiny threads against PC lag can be put to bed for the moment. I raise my glass, fellas.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26082	Posted - 2013.07.26 11:59:00 - [2] - Quote Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size?

Bendtner92 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 800	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:00:00 - [3] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I know you didn't ask me, but I think they should be raised to 120-130 clones

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26083	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:09:00 - [4] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I know you didn't ask me, but I think they should be raised to 120-130 clones It was an open question to anyone, preferably those that have been playing PC with the new clone pack size though.

Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven EoN. 16	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:12:00 - [5] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I know you didn't ask me, but I think they should be raised to 120-130 clones It was an open question to anyone, preferably those that have been playing PC with the new clone pack size though. idk just glad the lag is mostly gone in PC :D
Mikey The Chub D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 15	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:25:00 - [6] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I know you didn't ask me, but I think they should be raised to 120-130 clones It was an open question to anyone, preferably those that have been playing PC with the new clone pack size though. My corporation has been trying to break into the PC scene lately now that the lag has been fixed and it has been made a little cheaper. The starter packs are just a little too small. We were able to win 1 match out of probably 5 attempts on the same district that consistently had right around 300-350 clones. The large difference in clone count forces the attacker to play extremely conservative while the defender can literally suicide themselves to get kills and not have to worry about being cloned out. The majority of these matches were extremely close MCC wise, which leads me to believe if we had maybe 25 more clones we would have had a chance to win. Not saying we would have, but the match would have been more about the objective rather than a glorified ambush match. Just my 2 cents. Over and out.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 527	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:27:00 - [7] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Price is too low for any corp that has a decently-sized wallet. During the LoI vs EoN war, some CRONOS corps were hitting EoN corps with cheap starter packs just to tie them up for that time slot. They had little chance of winning (with only 100 clones) but because the packs were so cheap it didn't matter to them. Do not raise the clone amount.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 527	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:30:00 - [8] - Quote Mikey The Chub wrote: My corporation has been trying to break into the PC scene lately now that the lag has been fixed and it has been made a little cheaper. The starter packs are just a little too small. We were able to win 1 match out of probably 5 attempts on the same district that consistently had right around 300-350 clones. The large difference in clone count forces the attacker to play extremely conservative while the defender can literally suicide themselves to get kills and not have to worry about being cloned out. The majority of these matches were extremely close MCC wise, which leads me to believe if we had maybe 25 more clones we would have had a chance to win. Not saying we would have, but the match would have been more about the objective rather than a glorified ambush match. Just my 2 cents. Over and out. Your first mistake is attacking Cargo Hubs. Your second mistake is not going to TeamPlayers or SI to buy a district (they might even be giving them away still). Your third mistake is attacking the same people on the same district 5 times when you lost 4.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 801	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:32:00 - [9] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Price is too low for any corp that has a decently-sized wallet. During the LoI vs EoN war, some CRONOS corps were hitting EoN corps with cheap starter packs just to tie them up for that time slot. They had little chance of winning (with only 100 clones) but because the packs were so cheap it didn't matter to them. Do not raise the clone amount. I love this post, you're basically saying it's nearly impossible to win with 100 clones only, but you don't want the clone amount raised? It would also be better if the passive ISK generation wasn't this high, so that you would have to win your fights to make ISK.
The Loathing The Southern Legion 181	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:34:00 - [10] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? A VERY good question to ask, Fox. The 100 clone pack has presented a major challenge when facing a Corp that is even half decent. 100 deaths is not unusual when versing the elite of Dust, and League Of Infamy are no exception. We lost 2 out of 3 matches due to the 100 clone count. Our last match we tried a few countering tactics that saved our clones before the MCC win ticked over, but any defending Corp worth their salt know the win is in cloning the enemy, not objective dominance. I'd like to say we need more than 100 clones in a pack, but we have not played defense yet and that could be the only saving grace for some defending Corps. Perhaps a little more time for opinion is needed.

Nebra Tene Roaming Blades 141	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:34:00 - [11] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Price is too low for any corp that has a decently-sized wallet. During the LoI vs EoN war, some CRONOS corps were hitting EoN corps with cheap starter packs just to tie them up for that time slot. They had little chance of winning (with only 100 clones) but because the packs were so cheap it didn't matter to them. Do not raise the clone amount. But really that's just warfare between large corps, things like that or other similar would happen regardless. Remember that they're trying to adjust it to help the not-so-large corps as well. Stuff like that would barely affect larger corp warfare, while it might have a really strong impact on smaller corps
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 527	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:38:00 - [12] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Price is too low for any corp that has a decently-sized wallet. During the LoI vs EoN war, some CRONOS corps were hitting EoN corps with cheap starter packs just to tie them up for that time slot. They had little chance of winning (with only 100 clones) but because the packs were so cheap it didn't matter to them. Do not raise the clone amount. I love this post, you're basically saying it's nearly impossible to win with 100 clones only, but you don't want the clone amount raised? It would also be better if the passive ISK generation wasn't this high, so that you would have to win your fights to make ISK. When two good corps are going at it, 100 clones is going to be tough to win with, but not impossible. If SI, WTF and GAC hit you with a solid 16, you need to field a solid 16 to fight them off. If the clones amount was 130 like you suggest, then there's little point to moving clones unless you want to do a second attack right after. And why would we waste ISK locking districts they barely have/we don't care about? And how would locking their districts do anything when they can just launch starter packs regardless of anything we locked? I love your logic. I'm not a fan of high ISK generation either, especially when ISK has basically no use once you get past a certain (relatively low) points.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 527	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:43:00 - [13] - Quote Nebra Tene wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Price is too low for any corp that has a decently-sized wallet. During the LoI vs EoN war, some CRONOS corps were hitting EoN corps with cheap starter packs just to tie them up for that time slot. They had little chance of winning (with only 100 clones) but because the packs were so cheap it didn't matter to them. Do not raise the clone amount. But really that's just warfare between large corps, things like that or other similar would happen regardless. Remember that they're trying to adjust it to help the not-so-large corps as well. Stuff like that would barely affect larger corp warfare, while it might have a really strong impact on smaller corps As I said earlier, you can buy a district from TeamPlayers or SI who might still be giving them away. The whole reason they did this in the first place was to reduce the amount of starter packs being used to launch attacks from half-way across the map. If you're a good corp and you want to fight a good corp now, for the most part you need to work your way over to where they are (or attack smaller corps, which would only be easier if the clone pack was raised to 130) through the actual moving of clones. It creates battle lines and gives more "meta" to the meta-game.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 801	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:45:00 - [14] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: When two good corps are going at it, 100 clones is going to be tough to win with, but not impossible. If SI, WTF and GAC hit you with a solid 16, you need to field a solid 16 to fight them off. If the clones amount was 130 like you suggest, then there's little point to moving clones unless you want to do a second attack right after. So if they're not sure they're going to win with 120-130 clones why would they use a clone pack? They spend more money doing this and might not have enough clones. This sounds like a bad idea honestly. Attacking with clones from a district is both cheaper and you can attack with more clones. And like I said, a part of the problem is that we have passive ISK generation. Corps like SI have loads of ISK, so they could possibly spam clone packs to lock up districts for fun. The passive ISK generation was a bad idea in my mind. We should just have had great ISK rewards for winning battles and no ISK for holding districts. Fact is it's just almost impossible to win with 100 clones in the current state unless you're attacking a noob corp. Which means it's almost impossible for someone to enter PC, since not only do they have to attack with 100 clones but they also have to win at least two battles with 100 clones in a row just to take the district.
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 88	Posted - 2013.07.26 12:47:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I love you FoxFour I don't know why though...
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 528	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:03:00 - [16] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: So if they're not sure they're going to win with 120-130 clones why would they use a clone pack? They spend more money doing this and might not have enough clones. This sounds like a bad idea honestly. Right now, with 100 clones they have a small chance of winning because at some point it's likely they'll have to worry about clones and it will affect their strategy (remember we're talking about two good corps fighting here). With 130 (and on some larger, more spread out maps like the bridge map, 120) clones, it's entirely possible (and probable) to have enough clones to get a big enough lead, or simply last long enough through the fight to have clones left afterwards. The difference between 100 clones and 130 is a lot bigger than between 130 and 160, because once you hit a certain threshold, more clones just become insurance and won't ever affect your strategies on the field itself. Quote: Attacking with clones from a district is both cheaper and you can attack with more clones. Part of the problem isn't just cost though. It's that there's a certain radius you can effectively attack plus you're reducing your own districts clone count in the process. With a 130 clone pack, you abolish both of those negatives. The whole reason this was a problem to begin with is because people were attacking everywhere with a full 150. If we bring that back, we're in the same boat we were before and the meta part loses half it's luster. It's fun to engage in a war where there is some semblance of a battle front and you're duking it out, pushing back and forth. Quote: Fact is it's just almost impossible to win with 100 clones in the current state unless you're attacking a noob corp. Which means it's almost impossible for someone to enter PC, since not only do they have to attack with 100 clones but they also have to win at least two battles with 100 clones in a row just to take the district. I think in the devblog a few weeks back, FoxFour said the average clone loss was about 80 per battle per side. It isn't impossible to win a fight if you're a new corp as long as you fight who you should be fighting, ie newer corps and you're a better team. With two good corps it's a different story. Better weapons, better strategies, and generally better fights are happening, which means more clones are being lost. That doesn't mean 130 isn't too high though.
Bendtner92 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 801	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:11:00 - [17] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: I think in the devblog a few weeks back, FoxFour said the average clone loss was about 80 per battle per side. I'll take a guess here and say that they didn't factor in no-shows and steamrolls in general. This screws up the numbers A LOT. FoxFour can probably confirm if they did indeed factor in this or not. Against a corp on about the same level as your own it's just almost practically impossible to win with 100 clones. You might be ahead on MCC health, but you're going to lose on clones 9 out of 10 times I bet. Do note that I also said clone packs should have 120-130 clones, so not necessarily 130 clones. Would 125 clones be fine? 120? Personally I think 120 or 125 would be great.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26096	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:17:00 - [18] - Quote Orion Vahid wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I love you FoxFour I don't know why though... /bro hug :D


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26098	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:19:00 - [19] - Quote Thank you very much for the feedback guys! Keep it coming! :D

Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 532	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:22:00 - [20] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: I think in the devblog a few weeks back, FoxFour said the average clone loss was about 80 per battle per side. I'll take a guess here and say that they didn't factor in no-shows and steamrolls in general. This screws up the numbers A LOT. FoxFour can probably confirm if they did indeed factor in this or not. Against a corp on about the same level as your own it's just almost practically impossible to win with 100 clones. You might be ahead on MCC health, but you're going to lose on clones 9 out of 10 times I bet. Do note that I also said clone packs should have 120-130 clones, so not necessarily 130 clones. Would 125 clones be fine? 120? Personally I think 120 or 125 would be great. Half the problem is that the districts can vary wildly. I've played in matches against good corps on certain maps where both sides lost about 150. I've also played good corps on certain maps where both sides only lost about 85-95 simply because the map is so spread out. I don't see a huge problem with keeping it at 100 because if a corp is good enough to get in and hold a district in PC, there are enough indie-corps holding districts for the better team to take one, even with only 100 clones in a fight. There are also two major corps giving away districts to corps interested. Personally I think clone packs should be off-limits to corps that have districts, like was originally intended. Of course the problem then becomes that people are just going to use alt corps. To combat that, I'd suggest making the max number of non-corp members brought into PC limited to like 8 or something. Of course CCP is never going to do this and people will hate me for saying it, but God forbid corps have to fight their battles themselves

The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 644	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:25:00 - [21] - Quote Our experience is, that the 100 Clones is so close there's no margin for error. In our last 3 fight against WarRavens.. we have in the first match... First: Cloned out, holding 4 points at time of being cloned out. Second: Cloned Out, (JUST before their MCC blew up) We have footage and it will be uploaded... their MCC was technically dead, and we went 0 clones) Last, won, on MCC destruction, with 9 Clones left. 100 Clones IS possible, but only barely, and against an equal-skilled team, or better team, it's not possible to come out on top if you make even the slightest mistake. 120 Clones would put it about right, imho. Giving you a margin for error, but not so much that you could 'grind down' their resistance unless you steam-rolled them.

CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2035	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:32:00 - [22] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Parson Atreides wrote: I think in the devblog a few weeks back, FoxFour said the average clone loss was about 80 per battle per side. I'll take a guess here and say that they didn't factor in no-shows and steamrolls in general. This screws up the numbers A LOT. FoxFour can probably confirm if they did indeed factor in this or not. Against a corp on about the same level as your own it's just almost practically impossible to win with 100 clones. You might be ahead on MCC health, but you're going to lose on clones 9 out of 10 times I bet. Do note that I also said clone packs should have 120-130 clones, so not necessarily 130 clones. Would 125 clones be fine? 120? Personally I think 120 or 125 would be great. Actually we did exclude no shows into that calculation, 80 is the average for PC battles however the deviation is high enough that there will be some who get cloned out. We want being cloned out to be a possible concern, but it is maybe too frequent at the moment.

Knight Soiaire Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1429	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:35:00 - [23] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Mikey The Chub wrote: My corporation has been trying to break into the PC scene lately now that the lag has been fixed and it has been made a little cheaper. The starter packs are just a little too small. We were able to win 1 match out of probably 5 attempts on the same district that consistently had right around 300-350 clones. The large difference in clone count forces the attacker to play extremely conservative while the defender can literally suicide themselves to get kills and not have to worry about being cloned out. The majority of these matches were extremely close MCC wise, which leads me to believe if we had maybe 25 more clones we would have had a chance to win. Not saying we would have, but the match would have been more about the objective rather than a glorified ambush match. Just my 2 cents. Over and out. Your first mistake is attacking Cargo Hubs. Your second mistake is not going to TeamPlayers or SI to buy a district (they might even be giving them away still). Your third mistake is attacking the same people on the same district 5 times when you lost 4. Finally, someone gets it!
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 534	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:43:00 - [24] - Quote Is it possible to program the system so that if you own a district but still attack with a clone pack you aren't afforded certain advantages you normally would be? For example: 1. You can't take over a district. If the clone count would have been reduced to 0, it's 1 instead. 2. You have no exclusivity timer after the battle. 3. The district gets reinforcements even if the attacker wins. etc. I'd be okay with changing it to 120 or 130 if we did this. It should reduce or eliminate the desire to attack with clone packs for those who already hold districts and it would help (but not hurt) corps that are trying to get into PC.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 108	Posted - 2013.07.26 13:51:00 - [25] - Quote We've thrown a few clone packs around since Uprising 1.2 More than once we've lost on clones while holding all points, with the red MCC on a bare sliver of health. I think 130 clones is perhaps too high and around 120 would be a better number. However, even better than that would be a reserve of clones in each CRU installation. Being able to respawn at a captured CRU and know that the first, say, 20 clones wouldn't come off our clone total would go a long way towards affecting the attacking team's strategic goals while offering a good defender the ability to cut off that clone supply and use up the clones themselves. Also, those twenty clones would only be available when spawning at the CRU that has them, which limits their tactical flexibility, especially if the attackers are running low on clones and must choose between using one of the ten clones that can deploy anywhere vs one of the twenty that can only be deployed a fair way from the battle line. It provides the same opportunity for extra clones while fostering deeper gameplay.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 748	Posted - 2013.07.26 14:00:00 - [26] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? I know you didn't ask me, but I think they should be raised to 120-130 clones It was an open question to anyone, preferably those that have been playing PC with the new clone pack size though. Its not enough clones in the matches ive been involved with It really cuts it close to the bone, even tho you might win your clone count is more important because if you get cloned you lose end of so sometimes you cant carry on the push to the end 125 is prob better
Kain Spero Spero Escrow Services 1855	Posted - 2013.07.26 14:44:00 - [27] - Quote I think the issue with the 100 clone pack being on the small side is it also alters how the matches play out. The attacker is not able to be as aggressive and the defender is able to be even more aggressive. These behavior changes on the field I think compound the problem. I would like to see clone packs in the 120 to 125 range at least in not more. I really would love to see a long term solution to where someone who doesn't own a district could still "beachhead" though.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 569	Posted - 2013.07.26 15:06:00 - [28] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Thank you very much for the feedback guys! Keep it coming! :D I encourage you to make multiple smaller adjustments rather than a few big adjustments hoping you get it right sooner rather than later. An example would be bump clone count to 110, feedback, 120, feedback, 130, feedback etc. I also support Options. Allow corps the option to attack with more clones, just make it cost more per clone: 100 clones for 30m ISK 150 clones for 50m ISK 200 clones for 70m ISK
NIGGSWORM The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 21	Posted - 2013.07.26 16:57:00 - [29] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Glad you are enjoying it! Have you been using clone starter packs? If so how do you feel about the 100 clone size? Now fix tanks so people dont think of them as free wp and the tanker as a stupid idiot who spent his sp on the wrong thing.. by this im saying buff tanks and then nerf forgeguns
Ghural The Southern Legion 112	Posted - 2013.07.26 20:18:00 - [30] - Quote How about a new piece of gear that allows you to harvest a dead enemy, thereby adding to your teams clone count..



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