"A Nova Knife nerf would be acceptable"

I thought the whine about mass drivers was funny it was basically..

[ignore the first part of my sentence] I'm a caldari logi and after my 600 shields are Fluxed by the grenade...


...THEN ERMAGAWD MY 250 ARMOR DISAPPEARS!! Not fair!

I've had 550 shields taken from one swipe of nova knives

balanced because it's melee, or OP because it can one shot a lot of suits? you be the judge.

I've had 550 shields taken from one swipe of nova knives

balanced because it's melee, or OP because it can one shot a lot of suits? you be the judge.

A max skilled Nova Knife on any suit can OHK (assuming both charged swipes hit) /almost/ every suit in the game, with a single 'attack'.

A minmatar scout -can- OHK any suit in the game.


They buffed the knives unncessarily in the second uprising 1.0... the damage listed in the 'show info box' used to show the damge per swipe when charged. Now it shows the damage per swipe -without- being charged. This means they can do the same damage as before, but much faster. Which is somewhat fine. That's a reasonable buff.

However, add on the tidbit where charging them makes them do roughly double that listed damage per swipe.... That starts to get a bit crazy. Then factor in the skill bonus from knives, and possibly sidearm damage mods. Then you've got the suit bonus from minny scout, if you fancy ugly rusty suits :P

Something having a difficult/niche use is no excuse for it being -too awesome-. There's a fine line between rewarding weapons that highly rely on player skill and making those weapons too powerful. CCP crossed it here, in my humble opinion. The current uncharged /old charged damage is fine-as it. But It'd honestly rather they revert to the old method and make the uncharged swipes do less damage. These things should mostly be swung when not charged as a follow-up to a charged attack if it doesn't quite kill someone. They shouldn't be a OHK-opener you can use without charging and still have such a great effect.

A max skilled Nova Knife on any suit can OHK (assuming both charged swipes hit) /almost/ every suit in the game, with a single 'attack'.

A minmatar scout -can- OHK any suit in the game.


They buffed the knives unncessarily in the second uprising 1.0... the damage listed in the 'show info box' used to show the damge per swipe when charged. Now it shows the damage per swipe -without- being charged. This means they can do the same damage as before, but much faster. Which is somewhat fine. That's a reasonable buff.

However, add on the tidbit where charging them makes them do roughly double that listed damage per swipe.... That starts to get a bit crazy. Then factor in the skill bonus from knives, and possibly sidearm damage mods. Then you've got the suit bonus from minny scout, if you fancy ugly rusty suits :P

Something having a difficult/niche use is no excuse for it being -too awesome-. There's a fine line between rewarding weapons that highly rely on player skill and making those weapons too powerful. CCP crossed it here, in my humble opinion. The current uncharged /old charged damage is fine-as it. But It'd honestly rather they revert to the old method and make the uncharged swipes do less damage. These things should mostly be swung when not charged as a follow-up to a charged attack if it doesn't quite kill someone. They shouldn't be a OHK-opener you can use without charging and still have such a great effect.

A max skilled Nova Knife on any suit can OHK (assuming both charged swipes hit) /almost/ every suit in the game, with a single 'attack'.

A minmatar scout -can- OHK any suit in the game.


They buffed the knives unncessarily in the second uprising 1.0... the damage listed in the 'show info box' used to show the damge per swipe when charged. Now it shows the damage per swipe -without- being charged. This means they can do the same damage as before, but much faster. Which is somewhat fine. That's a reasonable buff.

However, add on the tidbit where charging them makes them do roughly double that listed damage per swipe.... That starts to get a bit crazy. Then factor in the skill bonus from knives, and possibly sidearm damage mods. Then you've got the suit bonus from minny scout, if you fancy ugly rusty suits :P

Something having a difficult/niche use is no excuse for it being -too awesome-. There's a fine line between rewarding weapons that highly rely on player skill and making those weapons too powerful. CCP crossed it here, in my humble opinion. The current uncharged /old charged damage is fine-as it. But It'd honestly rather they revert to the old method and make the uncharged swipes do less damage. These things should mostly be swung when not charged as a follow-up to a charged attack if it doesn't quite kill someone. They shouldn't be a OHK-opener you can use without charging and still have such a great effect.

"A Nova Knife nerf would be acceptable"

A max skilled Nova Knife on any suit can OHK (assuming both charged swipes hit) /almost/ every suit in the game, with a single 'attack'.

A minmatar scout -can- OHK any suit in the game.


They buffed the knives unncessarily in the second uprising 1.0... the damage listed in the 'show info box' used to show the damge per swipe when charged. Now it shows the damage per swipe -without- being charged. This means they can do the same damage as before, but much faster. Which is somewhat fine. That's a reasonable buff.

However, add on the tidbit where charging them makes them do roughly double that listed damage per swipe.... That starts to get a bit crazy. Then factor in the skill bonus from knives, and possibly sidearm damage mods. Then you've got the suit bonus from minny scout, if you fancy ugly rusty suits :P

Something having a difficult/niche use is no excuse for it being -too awesome-. There's a fine line between rewarding weapons that highly rely on player skill and making those weapons too powerful. CCP crossed it here, in my humble opinion. The current uncharged /old charged damage is fine-as it. But It'd honestly rather they revert to the old method and make the uncharged swipes do less damage. These things should mostly be swung when not charged as a follow-up to a charged attack if it doesn't quite kill someone. They shouldn't be a OHK-opener you can use without charging and still have such a great effect.

Considering the amount I get nova knifed... which is just about never. I think there are other problems plaguing New Eden.

Show me your numbers. It should be that easy to prove your point. Base damage of the proto nova is 200. GO!

Even with Advanced tier knives, the damage gets pretty crazy. It's only at the standard level that knives are useless, because their damage and charge speed is just blatantly unattractive.

I was there during the Nova knife discussion. I don't think that's what was implied. I remember we were joking about the other racial Nova knives saying how could we possibly make more than racial variants if it's just a charged knife.

If that wasn't said during the Nova knife discussion I apologize

Keep in mind, That damage in the 'show info' box is inflicted twice (assuming you hit, which is usually the case). Unless I'm mistaken, they do slightly more than double. It's difficult to test given that everything tends to die when you hit with both swipes, and I've never gotten a concrete answer from CCP (Other than "Charging does more") what the actual charge damage is. I'm pretty positive that it's at least double though, or you wouln't be able to OHK everything with a 'single' attack :P

Even with Advanced tier knives, the damage gets pretty crazy. It's only at the standard level that knives are useless, because their damage and charge speed is just blatantly unattractive.

I've had 550 shields taken from one swipe of nova knives

balanced because it's melee, or OP because it can one shot a lot of suits? you be the judge.

pretty crazy?

so, never mind the damage is balanced out by it's range, right?

Let's also ignore the fact you can not sprint charge, and that people can run backward at the same speed they can forward. The freezing of knives if you slash too fast. the terrible hit detection. the seriously deficient FOV. The lag.

sorry man. your opinion needs to be rethought.

the kill is about the journey. the scout is the bullet.

the damage is balanced. your opinion is ill informed.

That.

Plus the scoutsuits have very little CPU/PG, but the modules needed for a decent build and the knifes themself, require a lot.
To be able to fit protoknifes together with at least adavanced biotics and 2 complex shieldextender in my advanced minmatar scoutsuit, i have to give up a second weapon, the equipmentslot and grenades.

Meaning paper as armor and only meele attacks. Meaning running around like crazy, since almost everything can still kill you instantly, while searching for that one guy who looks the other way, is standing as still as possible, and doesn't have buddy's around who may spot you.

At the current state, Minjas are allready the very hard mode of the game. Really more an artform for bored people, than a reliable playstyle.
Take away the ability to OHK, and you have nothing left.

Could be a different story with a leap-attack, or maybe even just better hit-detection. One will see.

I'm on the same page as you as far as knives go, but I think it's worth pointing out that every class has to sacrifice a lot to fit a Proto weapon on an advanced suit. That's not a "problem" endemic to scouts.

Go AR or go home.

Anything other than an AR that becomes even remotely effective will be nerfed. <----- First rule of Dust.

A max skilled Nova Knife on any suit can OHK (assuming both charged swipes hit) /almost/ every suit in the game, with a single 'attack'.

A minmatar scout -can- OHK any suit in the game.


They buffed the knives unncessarily in the second uprising 1.0... the damage listed in the 'show info box' used to show the damge per swipe when charged. Now it shows the damage per swipe -without- being charged. This means they can do the same damage as before, but much faster. Which is somewhat fine. That's a reasonable buff.

However, add on the tidbit where charging them makes them do roughly double that listed damage per swipe.... That starts to get a bit crazy. Then factor in the skill bonus from knives, and possibly sidearm damage mods. Then you've got the suit bonus from minny scout, if you fancy ugly rusty suits :P

Something having a difficult/niche use is no excuse for it being -too awesome-. There's a fine line between rewarding weapons that highly rely on player skill and making those weapons too powerful. CCP crossed it here, in my humble opinion. The current uncharged /old charged damage is fine-as it. But It'd honestly rather they revert to the old method and make the uncharged swipes do less damage. These things should mostly be swung when not charged as a follow-up to a charged attack if it doesn't quite kill someone. They shouldn't be a OHK-opener you can use without charging and still have such a great effect.

I'm on the same page as you as far as knives go, but I think it's worth pointing out that every class has to sacrifice a lot to fit a Proto weapon on an advanced suit. That's not a "problem" endemic to scouts.

That is only half of the sentence of what that person said.
They said A nova knife nerf would be acceptable if they gave us a running charge and a backstab bonus.

Proto Nova: 200 (400 if charge doubles damage.)
Lvl 5 Nova Prof: 15%
2 complex damage mods: 20% (if we discount stacking penalties.)
Lvl 5 Min-Scout bonus: 25%
Max damage after total 60% bonus: 320 (640)

Show me your numbers. It should be that easy to prove your point. Base damage of the proto nova is 200. GO!

That 320 HP (640 HP charged) is per knife and you are carrying two knifes (one on each hand). Me, Nova, Iceshifter, Mr Musturd and others like me have confirmed that there is double strike involved.

Max Damage: 640 HP (1280 HP)

That is enough to challenge even the proto-heavies.

It's actually slightly more than that isn't it?

200 * 1.15 (Proficiency) * 1.2 (damage mods, and yes, I know the correct number is 1.196) * 1.25 (suit bonus) = 345 damage per knife uncharged = 1380 damage with both knives charged.

Correct?