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Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.07.23 18:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I approve of the flaylock changes.
However, as someone who bought a lot (literally 1000s stockpiled) of fused locus nades, the clip size change is ridiculous, bordering on sleazy bait-and-switch business tactics.
A weapon that I paid real money for has now been nerfed into the ground- would you rather carry one 400 damage nade that explodes on contact, or THREE 400 damage nades that don't? 2:3 was a fair ratio, 1:3 is not. Fused locus grenades are now significantly worse than standard non-contact locus grenades.
I would have welcomed a splash radius decrease, to bring the fused locus nades in line with the Thukker proto version (2.5m) or even down to new flaylock levels (1.5-2m). That would have be fair- it would significantly increase the skill required to use them effectively while not making them impotent.
This clip size change won't quite have the desired effect, either- nanohives are extremely common even in pub matches, and I can still stand on top of one and spam 400 damage / 6m blast radius win buttons.
CCP- don't punish me for spending AUR. A nerf to contact grenades, especially the fused locus grenade, is justified, but this is NOT the nerf you're looking for.
Edit: I would also be in favor of a damage decrease or hybrid splash/damage decrease for contact nades, i.e. 250 damage, 2 clip size, 6m blast radius or 300 damage, 2 clip size, 2.5.m blast radius. I'm not anti-nerf, just anti-this-nerf-in-particular. |
Zael Junma
Federated Consultants PMC
0
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Posted - 2013.07.23 18:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased. |
Nitrobeacon
Freek Coalition
42
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Posted - 2013.07.23 19:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree, where is my receipt... oh no I left it in the shop |
BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.07.23 19:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zael Junma wrote:CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased.
You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats.
This makes so much sense, it's scary. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
809
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Posted - 2013.07.23 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
BGoat wrote:Zael Junma wrote:CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased. You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats. This makes so much sense, it's scary. Except that people would just buy thousands of them before the changes go live so that the issue will persist for months, possibly for years.
If you're not willing to buy AUR gear when it's susceptible for later changes, just don't. You've already agreed to the "no refunds" clause and unless you want to sue CCP about it there's hardly anything that can be done.
In the meantime let me have proper balance. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.07.23 20:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:BGoat wrote:Zael Junma wrote:CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased. You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats. This makes so much sense, it's scary. Except that people would just buy thousands of them before the changes go live so that the issue will persist for months, possibly for years. If you're not willing to buy AUR gear when it's susceptible for later changes, just don't. You've already agreed to the "no refunds" clause and unless you want to sue CCP about it there's hardly anything that can be done. In the meantime let me have proper balance.
Read the OP please. I'm completely in favor of applying a nerf to contact grenades. I'm completely willing to keep spending AUR on gear that may change in the future. My point is that halving the ammo capacity is not going to change anything. This nerf is not the right nerf. |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy
834
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Contact grenades were to easily spammable, leaving them at one is fine, because there intended purpose is in sticky QQC scenarios.
Just get a nanohive or supply depot. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Contact grenades were to easily spammable, leaving them at one is fine, because there intended purpose is in sticky QQC scenarios.
Just get a nanohive or supply depot.
Translation: Contact grenades are too easily spammable, changing them to one is the right fix, because their intended purpose is in sticky CQC scenarios.
FFS. The changes are not out yet, your tense is wrong. 1. Too, not to. 2. Their, not there. 3. CQC = Close Quarters Combat
Why harp on his grammar? Because poorly expressed thoughts tend to be poorly thought out, as is the case here. i.e., "Leaving them at one is fine" seems to indicate that he is in favor of the proposed nerf, but "Just get a nanohive or supply depot" indicate that nerfing contact nades to 1 ammo is not a sufficient fix, since a simple piece of equipment would allow me to abuse them just as much as before.
Wrong nerf is wrong. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
I see three good options for CCP here, in order of "morally upright" nature: 1. Nerf in a less heavy-handed, easy-to-circumvent way. Let's see you tune some stats like damage and blast radius instead of just halving ammo capacity. 2. Nerf it as described, but let people who bought them for REAL MONEY BEFORE CHANGES WERE ANNOUNCED keep their stockpile. 3. The current plan.
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Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
150
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
If anything there should be an AUR refund for fused locus grenades. If you still want them you can buy them again. |
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Gorgoth24Reborn
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.07.23 20:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Imo if you bought an OP weapon it should've been in the back of your mind that it'd get nerfed to hell at some point. Watch the forums for feedback on said weapons and it's easy to avoid these sorts of things. It's a change in the right direction, and just because you paid money for the game doesn't mean you should be exempt |
Zael Junma
Federated Consultants PMC
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:BGoat wrote:Zael Junma wrote:CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased. You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats. This makes so much sense, it's scary. Except that people would just buy thousands of them before the changes go live so that the issue will persist for months, possibly for years. If you're not willing to buy AUR gear when it's susceptible for later changes, just don't. You've already agreed to the "no refunds" clause and unless you want to sue CCP about it there's hardly anything that can be done. In the meantime let me have proper balance.
Honestly, that's the nature of the beast. Items on the market do not need a game update, they are run by the remote server (that's why the lag in appearance). However, their stats tend to be stored int he game client for easy caching and access. Thus, CCP can immedately remove an item from the market without a game update. They can also set the product to not available (read 0 items for sale) without a game update (since technically the item sales are run by NPC organizations on the EVE side, but it isn't apparent to Dust players yet [load up eve and look at the merc gear section of the market]).
In any case, the same level of effort needed to remove an item from the market is needed to add one. The exception being that the added item will nto have stats available until a game client update. Thus, the moment before announcing they will be nerfing the item in the next update, CCP can remove the "defective" item from the market, announce that it will be "nerfed" (aka, replaced with a new and improved model) and no one can stock up.
Then, let's just say that for some technically stupid reason things don't work how I said they do above. Worst case scenario, people buy a ton of the effected product, they use effected product, they run out of effective product. Sure, post-nerf some people may have spent a ton of real money on the defective product (real money that allows you to continue playing the game, fyi), but in the end, the product goes away, and, in reality, very few people are going to spend that much money on a dead product, so you'll see far less of said product in game anyway.
End result of either scenario is that people that previously purchased a product expecting it to do X don't get screwed. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 17:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gorgoth24Reborn wrote:Imo if you bought an OP weapon it should've been in the back of your mind that it'd get nerfed to hell at some point. Watch the forums for feedback on said weapons and it's easy to avoid these sorts of things. It's a change in the right direction, and just because you paid money for the game doesn't mean you should be exempt
READ please. As I said above: "Read the OP please. I'm completely in favor of applying a nerf to contact grenades. I'm completely willing to keep spending AUR on gear that may change in the future. My point is that halving the ammo capacity is not going to change balance in the way the devs want to. This nerf is not the right nerf." |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1045
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 17:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
You might (very small might) be able to get them refunded if you make a petition to have your remaining contact nades removed for their aurum value. In these sorts of cases, this is a reasonable solution.
But yeah, stockpiling anything to that extreme is a bad idea - everything is open to change without notice or prior warning. |
Bhrutus Othis
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Till contact grenades are in the game i know that at least a player from France will abuse of them, i don't know why, they are more inclined to use that sh!t. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 17:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bhrutus Othis wrote:Till contact grenades are in the game i know that at least a player from France will abuse of them, i don't know why, they are more inclined to use that sh!t.
What the f--k? Who let drunk incoherent Captain Nationalism in here?
@Django- FFS read what I write, I want CCP to nerf in a more intelligent way, i.e. by tuning the damage and blast radius of contact nades, instead of just herp-derp-halving the ammo capacity. |
Bhrutus Othis
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just stating a statistic fact, 9/10 of people who spam fused AGAINST ME are from there. Read i've wrote AGAINST ME. BTW contact nades should not be in the game, you want to kill? LEARN TO COOK |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1045
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:@Django- FFS read what I write, I want CCP to nerf in a more intelligent way, i.e. by tuning the damage and blast radius of contact nades, instead of just herp-derp-halving the ammo capacity. Did read what you wrote and what I said still stands.
I don't think the nerf is unreasonable but the options you put forward are reasonable too.
The lesson is: don't stockpile to extremes. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 18:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
I agree they probably shouldn't exist, but they do so I'll use them. My point is, this nerf is not going to help anything. If I want to f--k your day with contact nades, I'll just stand on a nanohive. A proto logi can carry 6+ hives... halving the ammo capacity is useless. CCP needs to adjust contact nade damage and blast radius so that THOSE aspects are significantly worse than those aspects of normal grenades. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1048
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 21:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:I agree they probably shouldn't exist, but they do so I'll use them. My point is, this nerf is not going to help anything. If I want to f--k your day with contact nades, I'll just stand on a nanohive. A proto logi can carry 6+ hives... halving the ammo capacity is useless. CCP needs to adjust contact nade damage and blast radius so that THOSE aspects are significantly worse than those aspects of normal grenades. If you just stand on a nanohive thinking you can sit there spamming contact nades, you're a sitting duck for longer range attacks and everyone knows exactly where you are. You'll also run that nanohive out pretty quick and other people who actually need ammo will be pretty peeved. The good side of the ammo nerf is that you won't be able to run around and be useful if all you do is spam contact nades in the face of anyone you run into - you'll have to think about what you're doing.
I'm not one of these people calling for them to be removed completely but like was said in the dev blog, they need to be encouraged to be used situationally, not for every CQC encounter you have. |
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Captain Wontubulous
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
28
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 21:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:I approve of the flaylock changes.
However, as someone who bought a lot (literally 1000s stockpiled) of fused locus nades, the clip size change is ridiculous, bordering on sleazy bait-and-switch business tactics.
A weapon that I paid real money for has now been nerfed into the ground- would you rather carry one 400 damage nade that explodes on contact, or THREE 400 damage nades that don't? 2:3 was a fair ratio, 1:3 is not. Fused locus grenades are now significantly worse than standard non-contact locus grenades.
I would have welcomed a splash radius decrease, to bring the fused locus nades in line with the Thukker proto version (2.5m) or even down to new flaylock levels (1.5-2m). That would have be fair- it would significantly increase the skill required to use them effectively while not making them impotent.
This clip size change won't quite have the desired effect, either- nanohives are extremely common even in pub matches, and I can still stand on top of one and spam 400 damage / 6m blast radius win buttons.
CCP- don't punish me for spending AUR. A nerf to contact grenades, especially the fused locus grenade, is justified, but this is NOT the nerf you're looking for.
Edit: I would also be in favor of a damage decrease or hybrid splash/damage decrease for contact nades, i.e. 250 damage, 2 clip size, 6m blast radius or 300 damage, 2 clip size, 2.5.m blast radius. I'm not anti-nerf, just anti-this-nerf-in-particular.
I somewhat agree. Making them have a carry rate of 1 is a bit much. Personally I was thinking the blast radius would be reduced but honestly the right answer would be to just remove them from the game. The people who have them have them until they run out and that's it. |
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
421
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 21:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
LOL @ Main post, skill required for contacts XD
Even if i DESPISE contact grenades, i have to agree since the product is NOT what you bought you should get some kind of compensation.
-Im thinking, if you had 100 AUR contact grenades and each gave you 3 nades per loadouts( is it 3 or 2...hm), then since you are only carrying 1 per loadout now , you total amount of contact nades should be brought up to 300.
-That or an AUR reimbursement.
-OR MY PERSONAL FAV, since they are CONTACT GERNADES,leave them EXACTLY AS THEY ARE! Just AMMO 2. AND reduce the Splash damage to 0.5mts. TRUE contact grenade. |
Gorgoth24Reborn
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.07.26 05:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Gorgoth24Reborn wrote:Imo if you bought an OP weapon it should've been in the back of your mind that it'd get nerfed to hell at some point. Watch the forums for feedback on said weapons and it's easy to avoid these sorts of things. It's a change in the right direction, and just because you paid money for the game doesn't mean you should be exempt READ please. As I said above: "Read the OP please. I'm completely in favor of applying a nerf to contact grenades. I'm completely willing to keep spending AUR on gear that may change in the future. My point is that halving the ammo capacity is not going to change balance in the way the devs want to. This nerf is not the right nerf."
You accused CCP of using bait-and-switch business tactics (or were on the border of accusing them) due to your stockpiling an overpowered item then having it nerfed. That is what I was responding to within the OP, as your motives for contesting the change seemed, to me, to be based in your anger over your stockpile losing value.
I do read |
Emerald Bellerophon
Nenikekamen
29
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Posted - 2013.07.26 07:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Or they could be what they were in Chromosome: a limited merc pack item. |
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