DUST Search - Contact grenade nerf- you're doing it wrong.

Malkai Inos wrote:

BGoat wrote:

Zael Junma wrote:

CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased.

You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats.

This makes so much sense, it's scary.

Except that people would just buy thousands of them before the changes go live so that the issue will persist for months, possibly for years.

If you're not willing to buy AUR gear when it's susceptible for later changes, just don't. You've already agreed to the "no refunds" clause and unless you want to sue CCP about it there's hardly anything that can be done.

In the meantime let me have proper balance.


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Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:19:00 - [1] - Quote I approve of the flaylock changes. However, as someone who bought a lot (literally 1000s stockpiled) of fused locus nades, the clip size change is ridiculous, bordering on sleazy bait-and-switch business tactics. A weapon that I paid real money for has now been nerfed into the ground- would you rather carry one 400 damage nade that explodes on contact, or THREE 400 damage nades that don't? 2:3 was a fair ratio, 1:3 is not. Fused locus grenades are now significantly worse than standard non-contact locus grenades. I would have welcomed a splash radius decrease, to bring the fused locus nades in line with the Thukker proto version (2.5m) or even down to new flaylock levels (1.5-2m). That would have be fair- it would significantly increase the skill required to use them effectively while not making them impotent. This clip size change won't quite have the desired effect, either- nanohives are extremely common even in pub matches, and I can still stand on top of one and spam 400 damage / 6m blast radius win buttons. CCP- don't punish me for spending AUR. A nerf to contact grenades, especially the fused locus grenade, is justified, but this is NOT the nerf you're looking for. Edit: I would also be in favor of a damage decrease or hybrid splash/damage decrease for contact nades, i.e. 250 damage, 2 clip size, 6m blast radius or 300 damage, 2 clip size, 2.5.m blast radius. I'm not anti-nerf, just anti-this-nerf-in-particular.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: BGoat wrote: Zael Junma wrote: CCP needs to also stop nerfing previously bought items. If an item is directly paid for (AUR), and that item is "defective", then that item should be removed from the market and phased out in favor of a new version (hell call it 2.0 for all I care). I am certainly not buying anything else until I can feel comfortable that my purchases are not going to be screwed after I've purchased them. In all likelihood, I'll bet my credit card company would be more than happy to handle a charge back on items bought from CCP because they, in fact, did not give me the item I purchased. You make a very good point. It's pretty terrible business practice to sell an AUR item and then change the characteristics of that item in place. Any Fused Locus grenades already purchased before the 1.3 update should maintain the stats they were advertised and sold with. Any Fused Locus grenades purchased after the 1.3 update should have the "new" stats. This makes so much sense, it's scary. Except that people would just buy thousands of them before the changes go live so that the issue will persist for months, possibly for years. If you're not willing to buy AUR gear when it's susceptible for later changes, just don't. You've already agreed to the "no refunds" clause and unless you want to sue CCP about it there's hardly anything that can be done. In the meantime let me have proper balance. Read the OP please. I'm completely in favor of applying a nerf to contact grenades. I'm completely willing to keep spending AUR on gear that may change in the future. My point is that halving the ammo capacity is not going to change anything. This nerf is not the right nerf.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:24:00 - [3] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: Contact grenades were to easily spammable, leaving them at one is fine, because there intended purpose is in sticky QQC scenarios. Just get a nanohive or supply depot. Translation: Contact grenades are too easily spammable, changing them to one is the right fix, because their intended purpose is in sticky CQC scenarios. FFS. The changes are not out yet, your tense is wrong. 1. Too, not to. 2. Their, not there. 3. CQC = Close Quarters Combat Why harp on his grammar? Because poorly expressed thoughts tend to be poorly thought out, as is the case here. i.e., "Leaving them at one is fine" seems to indicate that he is in favor of the proposed nerf, but "Just get a nanohive or supply depot" indicate that nerfing contact nades to 1 ammo is not a sufficient fix, since a simple piece of equipment would allow me to abuse them just as much as before. Wrong nerf is wrong.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:34:00 - [4] - Quote I see three good options for CCP here, in order of "morally upright" nature: 1. Nerf in a less heavy-handed, easy-to-circumvent way. Let's see you tune some stats like damage and blast radius instead of just halving ammo capacity. 2. Nerf it as described, but let people who bought them for REAL MONEY BEFORE CHANGES WERE ANNOUNCED keep their stockpile. 3. The current plan.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:22:00 - [5] - Quote Gorgoth24Reborn wrote: Imo if you bought an OP weapon it should've been in the back of your mind that it'd get nerfed to hell at some point. Watch the forums for feedback on said weapons and it's easy to avoid these sorts of things. It's a change in the right direction, and just because you paid money for the game doesn't mean you should be exempt READ please. As I said above: "Read the OP please. I'm completely in favor of applying a nerf to contact grenades. I'm completely willing to keep spending AUR on gear that may change in the future. My point is that halving the ammo capacity is not going to change balance in the way the devs want to. This nerf is not the right nerf."
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:50:00 - [6] - Quote Bhrutus Othis wrote: Till contact grenades are in the game i know that at least a player from France will abuse of them, i don't know why, they are more inclined to use that sh!t. What the f--k? Who let drunk incoherent Captain Nationalism in here? @Django- FFS read what I write, I want CCP to nerf in a more intelligent way, i.e. by tuning the damage and blast radius of contact nades, instead of just herp-derp-halving the ammo capacity.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.07.24 18:16:00 - [7] - Quote I agree they probably shouldn't exist, but they do so I'll use them. My point is, this nerf is not going to help anything. If I want to f--k your day with contact nades, I'll just stand on a nanohive. A proto logi can carry 6+ hives... halving the ammo capacity is useless. CCP needs to adjust contact nade damage and blast radius so that THOSE aspects are significantly worse than those aspects of normal grenades.