Soo, you were in a squad (6-man squad I assume, or at least 4-5?) and one or more guys in your squad was able to rush a tanker that was probably running solo and destroy him with AV nades from close range?

Would he be able to do the same to a tanker that was also in a 6-man squad, with support around him?

Although with that said, I kind of agree with you anyway. In my opinion AV nades are a hard counter to LAVs, but a little less against HAVs (in my mind), so a slight resistance on HAVs against AV nades probably wouldn't hurt? I'm thinking like a 20-30% resistance here?

So why are tanks able to kill vehicles and infantry? You want to be able to attack infantry, but you dont want the to be able to attack you. I dont even know why I responded to this nonsense.

But aye, I think it would be smart, not reducing the damage all around but different levels of effectiveness on different vehicles.

Soo, you were in a squad (6-man squad I assume, or at least 4-5?) and one or more guys in your squad was able to rush a tanker that was probably running solo and destroy him with AV nades from close range?

Would he be able to do the same to a tanker that was also in a 6-man squad, with support around him?

Although with that said, I kind of agree with you anyway. In my opinion AV nades are a hard counter to LAVs, but a little less against HAVs (in my mind), so a slight resistance on HAVs against AV nades probably wouldn't hurt? I'm thinking like a 20-30% resistance here?

I still think that at least 4 people should be required to kill a good tank.

I still think that at least 4 people should be required to kill a good tank.

In a PC battle last night, I came around a corner to see a bunch of infantry spread out advancing towards a flag. I started to engage when I noticed a FG, and as I started to back away I exploded.

EX -11 in the killfeed.

Now, I am sure there was more than one guy throwing AV nades, and I may have even taken a FG hit. But I really find the current meta in PC battles to be kind of dull. Tanks must absolutely stay away from infantry or else the Lai Dais come out and the tank goes pop.

Basically leaves vehicles to just fight each other, but who needs to field tanks when every one on your team can walk around with enough AV in the grenade slot to never have any fear?

I can't tell you how many my buddy and I (just the two of us) would hop into an LAV rush a tank, throw all three of his lai dais and my hacked ex-0s and be guarantee to destroy any tank on the field.

So tanks need to survive 3 proto and 3 advanced AV nades to be viable? Nothing else in the game can soak damage from two well skilled people and survive. Why should tanks? Good tanks don't get solo'ed anymore. I'm an AV specialist so I'm familiar with running into good tankers. If there are a couple good tanks on the field so many resources get diverted to deal with them that objectives are rolled easily. I'm not saying we are done balancing, but how hard does it have to be before tankers are satisfied? Until you are ISK positive all the time by yourself? Um, no.

And packed AV can't be thrown as far; that's the trade off.

Exactly! AV grenades are too powerful for the versatility they offer, diminishing the purpose of risk v reward. If anything, it should take at least 3~4 people with proto AV grenades to pop a tank, not just one guy camping a nanohive spamming them. I'm not even a tanker anymore and I know this.

This is where having some dev feedback would be great, but we know how that goes.

I don't know if they need to have a whole bunch of people spamming them, because then the LLAVs will get away with too much. Maybe, not really sure on that.

What I think would be a good move is make them have higher fitting requirements to enforce that sacrifice for having AV capability.

Then introduce large capacity grenades so that a heavy AV guy can have a more specialized role on the battlefield.

This is where having some dev feedback would be great, but we know how that goes.

So tanks need to survive 3 proto and 3 advanced AV nades to be viable?

LLAVs are kind of a special case. They're not exactly hard to kill, just way too fast with way too much tank, especially the Cherry. I use boundless proximity mines, and they drive over them like they're not there. If anything they should be significantly slower than standard LAVs just like logi suits are slower than assaults. But like I said above, AV grenades should be a hard counter to light vehicles, but nearly useless when trying to solo a tank.

LLAVs are kind of a special case. They're not exactly hard to kill, just way too fast with way too much tank, especially the Cherry. I use boundless proximity mines, and they drive over them like they're not there. If anything they should be significantly slower than standard LAVs just like logi suits are slower than assaults. But like I said above, AV grenades should be a hard counter to light vehicles, but nearly useless when trying to solo a tank.

The easiest triangle to see in DUST is

Infantry > Anti Vehicle > Vehicle
Rock > Scissors > Paper

Why is it, Infantry, the ones who are weak against Vehicles but strong against AVers have AV capability so they can fight both situation?

AV Grenades are strong, and if you're not an idiot, you can kill many tanks with them with ease, I mean, the majority of guys I squad with (Yes, a Tanker does squad with Infantry, amagad) just rush enemy tanks and kill them, especially armor tanks..

Thoughts?

i already talked about this and got spammed with "what a QQer"

It seems to be the way DUST is, they've got to accept theres a problem and understand it, otherwise you get told you're QQing :D

Hard counters make for TERRIBLE game play. Nobody wants to be restricted to only fighting a small part of the battle. AV can kill infantry with side arms, tanks can kill AV if they are decent, why shouldnt infantry have an option to kill tanks if they are good?

As for the story about driving an LLAV up to a tank. You likely need a pretty well fit LLAV to do so without the tank destroying your ride. In addition to that, this doesnt work well if the tank is moving and not just standing still. Or if it has infantry support to kill you when you jump out.

Yes, one slow ass tank, sitting somewhere trying to freely snipe without danger is pretty vulnerable to this tactic.

Idea, remove the Logistic variant from LAVs (Refund SP), make a MLV (Medium Logistic Vehicle), reduce speed to just a bit faster than a HAV (Slow HAVs down a tad) and then increase damage from hitting people (As that's apparently being fixed so that you will take some damage from running people over)

That's actually a good idea. You should probably suggest that in feedback/requests.