a big happy Family, like in EvE.

hehehehehe lol. Good one.

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count.

So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

hehehehehe lol. Good one.

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count.

So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count.

So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

I have read the whole wikipedia and have durmised that a good matchmaking system would involve a lot of science, some clever queuing theory, possibly some network theory, a bit of gastrological engineering, and some experience in jiu-jitsu. Is CCP Nullabor qualified in all of those things?

Otherwise, I don't know what we are going to get.

The fact that Nullarbor is saying that you made the system of the matchmaking and you saying it was Nullarbor makes me wonder if it is working as intended

Is this coming out in the next update?

hehehehehe lol. Good one.

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count.

So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

Appreciate the reply, and I really hope the system Null comes up with works well. If you guys can crack matchmaking, you will make history, very big history that WILL be remembered.

I'll be honest, my hopes are not high. IMO squads vs no squads is the biggest imbalance in any game utilizing matchmaking. So while I hope Null comes up with a really nice solution (even if it isn't perfect) I would hope that no-squad options would be put on the table anyway as an alternative play-style. Many games use it, and it works very well. At the very least the most solo-centric modes could get it at some point, like ambush.

No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :)

hehehehehe lol. Good one.

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

No, the next update is later this month.

The fact that Nullarbor is saying that you made the system of the matchmaking and you saying it was Nullarbor makes me wonder if it is working as intended

hehehehehe lol. Good one.

In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more.

The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count.

So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :)

Or in other words,

I just want to chime and say that as a new player, the imbalance created by squads is the number one issue I am having with the game. Maybe the only issue that actually matters. It's not proto gear, useless dropships, weapon imbalances, or any of the missing or broken features of the game. I can live with all of it, but the squad based match making is really hard to deal with. And it's equally annoying whether I find myself on the winning or losing team.

One of the most refreshing parts of playing in Academy IMO is the lack of squads, and how unbelievably more balanced the game becomes as a result of it (granted, it's certainly not the only reason).

I understand that you don't want to split up the community even more, but considering that the game is already split up between four different game types and two public modes (instant battles, factional warfare), I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to reserve at least one of those for solo players. At least as a temporary solution, until the playerbase has grown and squad based matchmaking has proven itself to be more balanced (if that's even theoretically possible).

The problem as I see it as that singularly good players are put on teams to balance out the bad players already present. And while it makes sense to do this from a "balance" standpoint, good players don't want to play with bad players. They want to play with good players. If we didn't, we wouldn't have bothered getting good.

I would much prefer a system where bad players were placed with bad players, and good players didn't have to go anywhere near them. Of course if every good player was fighting every other good player, everyone's KDR would suddenly drop and then how would the system be able to to figure out who was good?

Same way games like Starcraft do it, I imagine. Put people in certain "tiers" that are reset over a certain period of time based on performance.

No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :)

Appreciate the reply, and I really hope the system Null comes up with works well. If you guys can crack matchmaking, you will make history, very big history that WILL be remembered.

I'll be honest, my hopes are not high. IMO squads vs no squads is the biggest imbalance in any game utilizing matchmaking. So while I hope Null comes up with a really nice solution (even if it isn't perfect) I would hope that no-squad options would be put on the table anyway as an alternative play-style. Many games use it, and it works very well. At the very least the most solo-centric modes could get it at some point, like ambush.

I just want to chime and say that as a new player, the imbalance created by squads is the number one issue I am having with the game. Maybe the only issue that actually matters. It's not proto gear, useless dropships, weapon imbalances, or any of the missing or broken features of the game. I can live with all of it, but the squad based match making is really hard to deal with. And it's equally annoying whether I find myself on the winning or losing team.

One of the most refreshing parts of playing in Academy IMO is the lack of squads, and how unbelievably more balanced the game becomes as a result of it (granted, it's certainly not the only reason).

I understand that you don't want to split up the community even more, but considering that the game is already split up between four different game types and two public modes (instant battles, factional warfare), I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to reserve at least one of those for solo players. At least as a temporary solution, until the playerbase has grown and squad based matchmaking has proven itself to be more balanced (if that's even theoretically possible).

There are a lot of problems with Dust 514, but THIS mentality drives me up the wall.

If the biggest problem you're having is that you're not in a squad, instead of complaining about how people in squads are beating you: JOIN A ******* SQUAD. It's not rocket science.

We need to get through to the players that squad'ing is a good thing.

At first I never squad and now I always try to, even if I dont turn on voice. Its easier to keep track of your allies and take out objectives/opponents.

I am not that social but even I see the benefit of it. Others need to learn this vital aspect.

You don't want to divide the pool of players up but thats the reason many new players don't stay. I've invited friends to play this game and they've enjoyed it during the academy because the matches were fun and competitive but after they get out they get slaughtered and aren't interested in getting destroyed for over a month just to have a slight chance to compete.

MMOs don't force new players to play against the guys that have maxed everything out. Players should be able to play against people with similar SP levels. This will increase the player counts because people will be able to compete even after they leave academy and won't have to face us players with proto until they reach a some decent SP level.

Sure, squading up is great. Unfortunately I have a job, and when I get back from a long day of dealing with some complete dropkicks, I just don't want to deal with people on that level. I want to be able to play a game, get a drink, maybe try a type of fit that's not incredibly effective, and basically just kick back a bit. All this despite the fact that my corp/alliance has a huge number of people who could easily create pubstomping squads.

I'm definitely not the only one who feels that way, so creating a no-lifer only game modes will have very limited appeal.

Sure, squading up is great. Unfortunately I have a job, and when I get back from a long day of dealing with some complete dropkicks, I just don't want to deal with people on that level. I want to be able to play a game, get a drink, maybe try a type of fit that's not incredibly effective, and basically just kick back a bit. All this despite the fact that my corp/alliance has a huge number of people who could easily create pubstomping squads.

I'm definitely not the only one who feels that way, so creating a no-lifer only game modes will have very limited appeal.

There are a lot of problems with Dust 514, but THIS mentality drives me up the wall.

If the biggest problem you're having is that you're not in a squad, instead of complaining about how people in squads are beating you: JOIN A ******* SQUAD. It's not rocket science.

Thanks for making this thread Djinn. Didn't see it.

Any idea how this new matchmaking they're testing going to work? SP based? WP?

From what they've been saying, it should work based on tracking an ungodly shitload more player metrics and working them all together into a profile on how each player fits into the system.

Thus, Godmodes play Godmodes, and Beginners play Beginners, and everything in between.

From what they've been saying, it should work based on tracking an ungodly shitload more player metrics and working them all together into a profile on how each player fits into the system.

Thus, Godmodes play Godmodes, and Beginners play Beginners, and everything in between.

Anything CCP? We know you are working on matchmaking, but anybody who has played a FPS game or two knows that MM is inherently flawed, no matter what. Only thing that makes MM somewhat viable for balance is a huge playerbase, which Dust does not have.

No-squad options is the best possible solution for balance. Solo players only play against other solo players, and squads mostly play against squads (as I'm sure solo will still join the squad servers). It is win-win for both sides.

The biggest imbalance in this game isn't weapons, maps or vehicles... it is squads against no-squads. So is this possible within Dust? Is it even being considered or talked about? Give us something!

I have no idea if he makes all those qualifications... I do know he made a LOT of graphs... so many that he made a GIF out of them that was like 30MB or something stupid at a really low resolution... it was scary. Anyways, he knows what he is doing and I have lots of faith in his abilities.

I would also like to take credit for being the first to post this idea.........

Penalising players because they work together is inherently bad in a multiplayer game. This pub stomping wasn't an issue in the early beta as most had relatively comparable gear.

Like how Dreadnoughts and carriers can't enter hisec or bombs and doomsdays can't be fired in low sec, apply the same for dust.

Militia, basic gear only: public hisec
Above + advanced gear only: public low sec
Above + prototype gear: PC/nullsec

It's that simple. Squads are cool, and the more game modes there are which focus on squad play, the better. But not having a way of taking a break from it at all just isn't good, at least not until you find a way to reliably sort out all the possible stomping scenarios. If that's even possible, which still remains to be seen.

This is someone who doesn't understand the problem. It's organized versus disorganized. Gear isn't as big of a deal. Pubstomping is done by organized squads versus random solo players. You have to kill squads in pubs to kill pubstomps.

This ^

I could squad up all day every day if I wanted, there is plenty of lfs and RFx in the various corp/alliance channels. And I do squad up quite often. But a lot of the time I just want to enjoy myself and play on my own terms. I don't want to have to be "on" and social all the time just so I can avoid getting pubstomped by stacked squads. And sure I could squad with no mic, but I am still at the mercy of the SL to choose gamemodes and when to join into a match. Solo play is the ultimate freedom, and if I feel like being social and working with a squad, I will do so.

There is plenty of opportunity to play as a squad in this game, especially with regards to PC. But it would be nice if I could solo every now and then and still have a good time.

^--- Clueless! This IS a MMOG NOT a solo-screw-the-rest private FPS session.