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DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 807	Posted - 2013.07.22 07:32:00 - [1] - Quote Anything CCP? We know you are working on matchmaking, but anybody who has played a FPS game or two knows that MM is inherently flawed, no matter what. Only thing that makes MM somewhat viable for balance is a huge playerbase, which Dust does not have. No-squad options is the best possible solution for balance. Solo players only play against other solo players, and squads mostly play against squads (as I'm sure solo will still join the squad servers). It is win-win for both sides. The biggest imbalance in this game isn't weapons, maps or vehicles... it is squads against no-squads. So is this possible within Dust? Is it even being considered or talked about? Give us something!
Panther Alpha DarkWingsss 671	Posted - 2013.07.22 07:40:00 - [2] - Quote But CCP is obsess with making a Console Game a social event, where everyone talks with each other about the weather, we all became best friends, we go together to Fanfest events... in other words... we will became a big happy Family, like in EvE. Seriously CCP... wake up.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26015	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:06:00 - [3] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :)

Beren Hurin K-A-O-S theory 763	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:10:00 - [4] - Quote I have read the whole wikipedia and have durmised that a good matchmaking system would involve a lot of science, some clever queuing theory, possibly some network theory, a bit of gastrological engineering, and some experience in jiu-jitsu. Is CCP Nullabor qualified in all of those things? Otherwise, I don't know what we are going to get.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 164	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:12:00 - [5] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) The fact that Nullarbor is saying that you made the system of the matchmaking and you saying it was Nullarbor makes me wonder if it is working as intended
Sotapopthegrey gay Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 107	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:13:00 - [6] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Is this coming out in the next update?
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Covert Intervention 553	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:25:00 - [7] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) I would be happy just to receive the Filters previously promised for the Battle Finder. Enabling some of the fancy ones will take some work but without Any Filter At All it will never make any progress. If the actual coder is working on the Filter than a release approximation would be helpful. Kitten, any hope at all would be hopeful.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26017	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:31:00 - [8] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I have read the whole wikipedia and have durmised that a good matchmaking system would involve a lot of science, some clever queuing theory, possibly some network theory, a bit of gastrological engineering, and some experience in jiu-jitsu. Is CCP Nullabor qualified in all of those things? Otherwise, I don't know what we are going to get. I have no idea if he makes all those qualifications... I do know he made a LOT of graphs... so many that he made a GIF out of them that was like 30MB or something stupid at a really low resolution... it was scary. Anyways, he knows what he is doing and I have lots of faith in his abilities.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26017	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:32:00 - [9] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) The fact that Nullarbor is saying that you made the system of the matchmaking and you saying it was Nullarbor makes me wonder if it is working as intended Where did he say I made or am making the matchmaking? I am not a programmer so either he was incredibly tired/drunk and made a typo or there was a misunderstanding.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 26017	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:33:00 - [10] - Quote Sotapopthegrey gay wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Is this coming out in the next update? No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :)


DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 809	Posted - 2013.07.22 11:46:00 - [11] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Appreciate the reply, and I really hope the system Null comes up with works well. If you guys can crack matchmaking, you will make history, very big history that WILL be remembered. I'll be honest, my hopes are not high. IMO squads vs no squads is the biggest imbalance in any game utilizing matchmaking. So while I hope Null comes up with a really nice solution (even if it isn't perfect) I would hope that no-squad options would be put on the table anyway as an alternative play-style. Many games use it, and it works very well. At the very least the most solo-centric modes could get it at some point, like ambush.
Duck Drahko DUST University Ivy League 43	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:46:00 - [12] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Appreciate the reply, and I really hope the system Null comes up with works well. If you guys can crack matchmaking, you will make history, very big history that WILL be remembered. I'll be honest, my hopes are not high. IMO squads vs no squads is the biggest imbalance in any game utilizing matchmaking. So while I hope Null comes up with a really nice solution (even if it isn't perfect) I would hope that no-squad options would be put on the table anyway as an alternative play-style. Many games use it, and it works very well. At the very least the most solo-centric modes could get it at some point, like ambush. I just want to chime and say that as a new player, the imbalance created by squads is the number one issue I am having with the game. Maybe the only issue that actually matters. It's not proto gear, useless dropships, weapon imbalances, or any of the missing or broken features of the game. I can live with all of it, but the squad based match making is really hard to deal with. And it's equally annoying whether I find myself on the winning or losing team. One of the most refreshing parts of playing in Academy IMO is the lack of squads, and how unbelievably more balanced the game becomes as a result of it (granted, it's certainly not the only reason). I understand that you don't want to split up the community even more, but considering that the game is already split up between four different game types and two public modes (instant battles, factional warfare), I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to reserve at least one of those for solo players. At least as a temporary solution, until the playerbase has grown and squad based matchmaking has proven itself to be more balanced (if that's even theoretically possible).
The Attorney General ZionTCD 491	Posted - 2013.07.22 12:59:00 - [13] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :) Do you guys realize that if you shift to "monthly" updates then only produce something worthwhile ever 4-6 months, you might as well have stayed on the old schedule. Well aside from the short lived PR boost until people figure it out. Or until the major content updates fall on their asses because they get pushed early and you end up spending a half year fixing those problems.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 164	Posted - 2013.07.22 16:41:00 - [14] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. I have a question that I'd like you or Nullarbor to answer at least in your head: Go back mentally to the EVE Alliance Tournament and imagin trying to come up with a matchmaking system. How good does a team of 6 guys without any communication who have never played with each other (and each brought their own individual favorite ship with their favorite fitting) so they can beat a 6 man team of people who have practiced this mode of playing for the last 12 months together (and have created a 6 ship fleet that maximizes utility based on the tournament rules)? You may ponder this question for a while, but you will likely come to the conclusion that even the best individual players won't be able to win against the worst team players. As such, any useful matchmaking will segregate the two parties. You can try doing this with math by finding a solution that will (eventually) give squaded players a higher ranking than any non-squaded player, but you'll come to the same conclusion as segregating the players by squads.
First Prophet Jaguar Empire 682	Posted - 2013.07.22 16:46:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Sotapopthegrey gay wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Is this coming out in the next update? No, the next update is later this month. When can we expect patch notes on this update? There's little more than a week left.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 228	Posted - 2013.07.22 16:53:00 - [16] - Quote We need to get through to the players that squad'ing is a good thing. At first I never squad and now I always try to, even if I dont turn on voice. Its easier to keep track of your allies and take out objectives/opponents. I am not that social but even I see the benefit of it. Others need to learn this vital aspect.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1142	Posted - 2013.07.22 16:53:00 - [17] - Quote You guys should consider trying to for a couple weeks CCP. Just open up a new game like the academy, random game mode, no squads, and no proto. And just see what the metrics look like and how the community reacts. Can't hurt to try it?
Poonmunch Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 138	Posted - 2013.07.22 16:58:00 - [18] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: The fact that Nullarbor is saying that you made the system of the matchmaking and you saying it was Nullarbor makes me wonder if it is working as intended You kill me, man. Munch
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood 399	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:03:00 - [19] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) You don't want to divide the pool of players up but thats the reason many new players don't stay. I've invited friends to play this game and they've enjoyed it during the academy because the matches were fun and competitive but after they get out they get slaughtered and aren't interested in getting destroyed for over a month just to have a slight chance to compete. MMOs don't force new players to play against the guys that have maxed everything out. Players should be able to play against people with similar SP levels. This will increase the player counts because people will be able to compete even after they leave academy and won't have to face us players with proto until they reach a some decent SP level.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 312	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:05:00 - [20] - Quote An analogy The problem is that now new players have to learn how to swim by being thrown into the ocean. The battle academy is a pair of water weenies. Even those that can swim are tired and have to contend with all the sharks. How about we take a new approach and implement a swimming pool of sort, with a shallow and deep end, with no limit. Something that can't fit sharks. So far this matchmaking only seems like getting giving us the option of getting thrown in the middle of shark infested water or non shark infested water. I need to go to the beach.....

GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:14:00 - [21] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :) Or in other words, " We have no clue how to resolve match making, yet." " It is still in the pipeline." " We can see a fix on the Horizon." " We have it on out timetable." " SoonGäó"
Shadowswipe WarRavens League of Infamy 173	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:16:00 - [22] - Quote I would be happy with a way to turn off notifications for squad invites from users that aren't friends, corp, or alliance. I hate jumping into an ambush for a one game and out before going to work in the morning, to only then be spammed with group invites from random people I will not group up with. Its not that am I am solo player, I still run with the blue blob and support/focus fire when I can. I just don't need to be in a squad as it is highly unlikely that we will get an OB in a 50 clone match. And if we did... meh, we use it as a victory lightshow to kill the last 5 players. Than I promptly log off and go to work. I'm OCD about clearing mail and notifications section when they are blinking.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 165	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:16:00 - [23] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :) Or in other words, "Yeah, so the the game is going to be broken for a couple more months. HTFU."
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 976	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:48:00 - [24] - Quote The problem as I see it as that singularly good players are put on teams to balance out the bad players already present. And while it makes sense to do this from a "balance" standpoint, good players don't want to play with bad players. They want to play with good players. If we didn't, we wouldn't have bothered getting good. I would much prefer a system where bad players were placed with bad players, and good players didn't have to go anywhere near them. Of course if every good player was fighting every other good player, everyones KDR would suddenly drop and then how would the system be able to to figure out who was good? Same way games like Starcraft do it, I imagine. Put people in certain "tiers" that are reset over a certain period of time based on performance.
Provolonee Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY 101	Posted - 2013.07.22 17:55:00 - [25] - Quote The infamous match making algorithm. Good luck with that. Every FPS has tried it, and nobody has delivered. But I'm sure there is room for improvement over what we have. The only thing I can think of is if team A has a squad of 6. There is a 100% chance that team B has one. Make that squad wait a couple minutes if you have to. Just one decent squad is enough to end the fight in a bore fest within the first minute. Even more apparent in game modes like domination.
T3chnomanc3r Ultramarine Corp 8	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:04:00 - [26] - Quote Why do we even have a discussion about solo players? You want a solo FPS go find one, it's counter productive to level up in this game to run solo because the point is team based work. Random blueberries almost NEVER work together probably because like you they're playing a SOLO game. Matchmaking? Yeah great, how about fixing things so we can corp deploy in FW without gambling 3x6 sqauds may or may not make it in on the same side if at all? Stop asking them to waste time on eye-candy features for randoms when you should be bitching for them to filter high ping & macro controller players, fixi/tweak the core net code to get the game playable, and add missing BASIC dumb/non-statistical deploy options so full teams can go against each other. As it stands finding, much less joining, FW is beyond a joke & totally precludes being tactical about choices. Duck Drahko wrote: I just want to chime and say that as a new player, the imbalance created by squads is the number one issue I am having with the game. Maybe the only issue that actually matters. It's not proto gear, useless dropships, weapon imbalances, or any of the missing or broken features of the game. I can live with all of it, but the squad based match making is really hard to deal with. And it's equally annoying whether I find myself on the winning or losing team. One of the most refreshing parts of playing in Academy IMO is the lack of squads, and how unbelievably more balanced the game becomes as a result of it (granted, it's certainly not the only reason). I understand that you don't want to split up the community even more, but considering that the game is already split up between four different game types and two public modes (instant battles, factional warfare), I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to reserve at least one of those for solo players. At least as a temporary solution, until the playerbase has grown and squad based matchmaking has proven itself to be more balanced (if that's even theoretically possible).
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1148	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:05:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: The problem as I see it as that singularly good players are put on teams to balance out the bad players already present. And while it makes sense to do this from a "balance" standpoint, good players don't want to play with bad players. They want to play with good players. If we didn't, we wouldn't have bothered getting good. I would much prefer a system where bad players were placed with bad players, and good players didn't have to go anywhere near them. Of course if every good player was fighting every other good player, everyone's KDR would suddenly drop and then how would the system be able to to figure out who was good? Same way games like Starcraft do it, I imagine. Put people in certain "tiers" that are reset over a certain period of time based on performance. The tiers could be security status. 0.8 - 1.0 - Bronze League 0.6 - 0.8 - Silver League 0.4 - 0.6 - Gold League 0.2 - 0.4 - Platinum League 0.1 - 0.2 - Masters League 0.0 - Null Sec Duh... You are then judged by your security status and not your KDR. Could even put security status on your name on the forums in the bottom right side of the pictures. Of course the lower the number the bigger your e-peen is :D.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers League of Infamy 1515	Posted - 2013.07.22 18:33:00 - [28] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Sotapopthegrey gay wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Is this coming out in the next update? No, the next update is later this month. We are not ready to give a date for the new matchmaking system as it is still being worked on. We will get it out as soon as it is ready and we can. :) Later this month? Can't be coming out this month we have no idea whats in it yet.... It's the 22nd btw in case you forgot with your an executive producer. Can't you jst get the rest of the tanks and suits out of the door already!!!!!!
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 156	Posted - 2013.07.22 19:57:00 - [29] - Quote Just axe squads in pubs, and put enough FW matches out there for squads to actually get in them.
Sephirian Fair Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 82	Posted - 2013.07.22 20:03:00 - [30] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Panther Alpha wrote: a big happy Family, like in EvE. hehehehehe lol. Good one. In response to OP: There has been some general thought put into it put we want to get the new matchmaking system that CCP Nullarbor is working on out first and then we can look at possibly adding that. I don't see it happening though as we don't want to divide the pool of players matchmaking up even more. The new matchmaking system has had a lot of work put into it and, from my non-programmer perspective, it seems to have been rewritten from the ground up. We support a lot more things to matchmake off of and to help with the smaller player count. So yea, before we go and talk about adding more features to the matchmaking lets get this new version out, see how it does, and then we can iterate on it as needed. :) Appreciate the reply, and I really hope the system Null comes up with works well. If you guys can crack matchmaking, you will make history, very big history that WILL be remembered. I'll be honest, my hopes are not high. IMO squads vs no squads is the biggest imbalance in any game utilizing matchmaking. So while I hope Null comes up with a really nice solution (even if it isn't perfect) I would hope that no-squad options would be put on the table anyway as an alternative play-style. Many games use it, and it works very well. At the very least the most solo-centric modes could get it at some point, like ambush. Agreed. I can't say I'm not disappointed to hear that they aren't adding a solo match-making queue, currently. I honestly don't believe there will ever be a good matchmaking so long as you lump randoms in with squads. It doesn't matter how damn good you are, things become exponentially more difficult when you have 6 people coordinating their movements and calling out enemy positions. I just don't believe that a matchmaking system could ever account for the factor of communication and, above all, the experience of working as a unit. Unit cohesion is something that you can never account for and instant battles will continue to suffer because of it. But, best of luck to you guys. If you can do it, patent it and sell it. But as leukoplast said, hopes aren't high and there's been a lot of tried attempts. Pretty much all have failed.



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