I am sure a lot of people were drawn to Dust based on the many trailers containing several HAVs and dropships as they stormed the battlefield. They are shown fighting each other, infantry, and even the environment. I too was amazed at this and skilled into vehicles during chromosome.

Flash forward to Uprising. Vehicles have no way to increase their ability to survive and are continually destroyed by proto AV. They cost unreasonable amounts of ISK and have the most bugs of anything in the game. Their operators are some of the most dedicated players on the battlefield as one mistake costs them over an hour of grinding ISK. Only the occasional enjoyment is keeping operators around.

Now to the armor repair fix and beyond. Eventually there will be ZERO 'real' (non militia and skilled) vehicles on the battlefield. It will just be AR vs AR. Those trailers will be so far fetched that even a dev might admit it, not that they would even reply to a vehicle related post. With the continued extermination process of vehicles, operators are continually decreasing in numbers. Those who stay will be forced to skill into other areas as whatever SP they have spent on vehicles has been made obsolete.

Sound unreasonable?

By September, if nothing beneficial to vehicles happens, it will be true.

CCP STEP UP
Admit that something is wrong.
Play your game through the role of a vehicle specialist against real players.

FIRE
Minor Wang
CCP Blam
Whoever is running the vehicle operations and AV balance
They have done nothing but render us more and more obsolete, until we are no longer viable.

SHOW SOME REPECT
Your numbers don't add up (economically for vehicles, damage, or repping/boost)
We have proven this over and over AND OVER AND OVER

YET YOU HAVE YET TO RESPOND
Unless AV is nerfed into the ground across the board in 1.4 I will be specing into other roles or asking for a respec. If this seems like any other fps when I do that, I will be leaving to play a much more refined FPS.

GET REAL
You still have time to fix this. Sit down and crunch the numbers for AV vs any tank. You will be just as frustrated as us if you do you will be just as speechless as us at times.

FIX IT
Re-balance vehicles and AV. Tanks should act like 50 ton blocks of steel on treads, dropships should fit their role and not die in two shots, LAVs shouldn't strike fear into every soldier.

NOTE
Maybe we should make a list of all the vehicle drivers who are on the way out so CCP could see? I mean they are the infantry's pet so I guess then no one will be between their AR vs AR battles any longer.

lol did this guy said "show some respect"? Ok mr. tough guy. I don't know what "respect" you think needs to be shown.

I swear some of you guys were probably the male cheerleaders in school

I agree with all your points (besides firing people, i belive in second chances and i think, that 1.4 will be blam!` second chance)

I don't know how to make CCP listen. Nearly every dropship pilot specced out of flying in the last opportunity and we still have only a vague promise of a rebalance.

Keep asking, but skill an infantry fit so you have something to do for the next year or two while we wait.

They have both shown continually to be out of touch with the community. If they were to drive one of my madrugars and be blown up by two proto swarm shots, things may change. Then again we might get the response that they are looking into it. real businesses don't pull that crap. They replace ineffective employees with ones who can do the job effectively. That's just how the real world operates.

As far as i know blam! Cant code, that might be a the problem also :
Have you tought that blam is a human not a robot, he migjt have some RL personal problems to deal with and suchbthibg

And again i belive i second chances
He has never been my favourite DEV but i think, that 1.4 be his ssecond chance, but if aftrt that it fails, well i might not sullortbhim anymore

I know they arent in touch with the community, but the only devs in touch with are foxfour and sometimes frame (mintchip too but as far as i know she doesnt develop anything)

But too exploitable

Another solution would be to increase tanking a ton like 3-4x health but drastically reduce the ability to self heal. Basically what can't happen is tanks requiring 10-20 proto AV shots and then being able to drive off and heal in the redline for a minute or two.

Or giv AV e-war options to disable guns and movement, then tanks could be way beefier. But if you just buff tanks you will see a domino effect of more, stronger tanks and frustrated AV leaving to go shoot squishy men. Then tanks will just smash everything.

As a former dropship pilot and someone who now owns an Ishukone, I can safely say I have no faith in CCPs ability to properly balance Vehicles and AV.

Any improvement to vehicles will result in pubstomping complaints.

Pub matches come first.

Vehicles are too OP in this game.

Vehicles are too OP in this game.

Any game you can joyride and go 16-0 is unacceptable. Regardless how few times it may be who it's against this tactic should NEVER produce those kind of results. NEVER in any shooter. AV or not. In BF vehicles were OP as hell but even than guys wouldn't just drive around in jeeps going 20-0 10-0 9-0 just running people over. I have never seen this tactic so damn effective. Vehicles are TOO OP, NOT UP , OP OVER POWERED.

I agree with all your points (besides firing people, i belive in second chances and i think, that 1.4 will be blam!` second chance)
I fly dropships only because i love it
But they suck, av can take us way too fast and we cant even make wp
The only reason ppl drive tanks or fly dropships right now is because they like it and have isk, because killing them is way too easy

There was one post some time ago, that had the perfeft fix, for any imbalance that buffing vehicles could cause

It was having indoors in some maps
He said, that tanks could as powerful as they were in closed beta because they wouldnt be able to stomp everyone becaue tjey couldnt get indoors
He said, that dropships could be useful, by transporting people over the open areas , where tanks could rule

He claimed, that it would fix this whole game by making every weapon OP but making the map itself restrict its use ( like lasers melting ppl in mid-long range but by playing in a cqc map it wouldnt be OP and such things) and that it could bring more divrrsity to PC because then knowing the map layout would influence the choice of how to play certain mqtch or what tactics to use ( not like now, when 1 playstyle for your whole corp is enough to rule pc)

BUT LIKE EVERY GOOD SUGGESTION THREAD IN HERE IT WAS BURIED BY THE STUPID QQing

lol did this guy said "show some respect"? Ok mr. tough guy. I don't know what "respect" you think needs to be shown.

I swear some of you guys were probably the male cheerleaders in school

Vehicles are UP. Crunch the numbers. The only thing that produces good results with them are the awesome pilots behind the controls and armor reps. Take either or both of these away and you can have fun without my tank on the battle field which costs more than your suits for 10 matches

This isn't Spreadsheet Online. This isn't Spreadsheet514 crunching numbers won't prove wrong what we see with our eyes. If you wanna crunch numbers go back into the stars and swim around in your fish bowl. Down here on the ground we have a different mentality. We want a FPS NOT a RPG that pretends to be a MMOFPS. Driving around in a truck should never be as effective as shooting a gun. Under no circumstance should driving around running people over produce positive results as a killing weapon. Till this is fixed whining QQers about vehicles will never be heard.

Any game you can joyride and go 16-0 is unacceptable. Regardless how few times it may be who it's against this tactic should NEVER produce those kind of results. NEVER in any shooter. AV or not. In BF vehicles were OP as hell but even than guys wouldn't just drive around in jeeps going 20-0 10-0 9-0 just running people over. I have never seen this tactic so damn effective. Vehicles are TOO OP, NOT UP , OP OVER POWERED.

If you want just a FPS then get out. The RPG element is what makes this game different from any other shooter that I have played I don't want another COD, I sold that sh*t game and bought aurum with the profits and when there is a lot of numbers and math involved saying "umm well my AR is fine, game is good" simply does not work, you ape. the only good point you made, oh wait. nothing.... let me read it again.... nope. If you dont want to get run over stay out of the path of oncoming vehicles.

I was hoping for an intelligent conversation on this but silly me

...because game forum

You ate paint chips as a kid, didn't you.

Did I mention an LAV in my post? Ever hear of prox mines or remote explosives? My limbus has your name all over it the next time I see you-red or blue.

Perhaps your just a crappy operator ? my cousin Destroys EVERYONE in her Tanks, and Lav..... your just not using them right I'm sure...I'd say they need abit more armor/shielding than they do have starting out. but other than that. tanks are still Viable.

this is a reply to the original poster.

I have 15000 kills and utilize every edge to my advantage. I have seen it all and fought with the best Tankers in the game. I can countered by ONE PERSON. I am not a crappy operator. Any tank can be torn apart by ONE Proto AV user. Soon it will be ONE MILITIA AV USER. Just because I am not well known for driving tanks doesn't mean I am bad at it by any means. Does your cousin see any Proto AV in her tank? Obviously not.

LT - There are a lot of good tankers that are complaining about the issues that this game has. Even VOID has a 'k-thx-bai' thread up right now.

BTW - I am not a tanker, I have proto swarms. Lately I play with those in pub matches about as much as with an AR because tanks and any other vehicle are pretty easy to take out with those and two damage mods. Its sadly hilarious that me (a little dude in an assault suit) can be seen chasing a tank down the street as he tries to run away from me. Now, does that sound right to anyone?

Step 1 - Find tank out in open ground with little cover near by.
Step 2 - Drop Hive
Step 3 - Unload swarms (2 shots for militia, 3/4 for standard, 6-7 for falcion)
Step 4 - Cry a little inside that this is killing the game.

As a dropship pilot, I have lost my fair share of dropships. If there is one piece of advice I can give to vehicle pilots it would be this, vehicles and especially dropships, are team bassed. The role of the dropship is to support the team either by acting as a mobile spawn point, fast transport, overwatch, anti sniper, recon or a combination of these.
Vehicles are not meant to be used solo, and require infantry support in order to reach their full potential. Tanks definatly require infantry support, although I know a lot of tankers don't like to admit this. If you have two gunners and a proto swarm comes out around a corner tell your gunners to hop out and engage them. Tanks can't see everywhere at once, so its good to have squad members on the ground so if they see a forge gun they can tell you where it is before you get caught with nowhere to run.

All in all vehicles are very hard to do in games, especially one like dust. However know that you aren't meant to be a solo death machine, as even the strongest tank will be killed by teamwork if you don't have support.

Well that's a good reason for tankers to play it safe instead of gunhoe gi joe. All I'm saying is teamwork is the most OP weapon in this game. I had the luxury of realising from the myron stage that I'm useless without teammates, I'm simply stating that tankers have this idea in their heads that they should just show up and be able to kill everyone, I'm saying that you need teamwork to survive in this hell of a universe.

I don't think any of us thinks that we should be able to kill anyone and everyone. However losing a 1v1 fight against an enemy risking around 50k isk and us risking roughly 1.4-1.9 million depending on the fitting doesn't sound like it should be that way.
Now correct me if I am wrong but it's not very likely that full proto infantry loses to full militia infantry in 1v1, or is it? That is the price difference at play.
If I am playing on my alt and see the enemy calling in a tank I die of laughter because even if I can't kill it, the round doesn't last long enough for me to lose as much isk trying to kill it as he is risking isk just bringing it on the battlefield. So I couldn't give a **** because I can't possibly lose enough isk to care in comparison to the stasifaction of destroying so much isk, lol.

^ I like this option, mot other shooter games do not give vehicles the ability to self heal at any significant rate unless its a gimmick in single player.

This isn't Spreadsheet Online. This isn't Spreadsheet514 crunching numbers won't prove wrong what we see with our eyes. If you wanna crunch numbers go back into the stars and swim around in your fish bowl. Down here on the ground we have a different mentality. We want a FPS NOT a RPG that pretends to be a MMOFPS. Driving around in a truck should never be as effective as shooting a gun. Under no circumstance should driving around running people over produce positive results as a killing weapon. Till this is fixed whining QQers about vehicles will never be heard.

You guys forgot about recall, didn't you?

You guys forgot about recall, didn't you?

knows nothing about vehicles or the role they should fill

You guys forgot about recall, didn't you?

I don't think any of us thinks that we should be able to kill anyone and everyone. However losing a 1v1 fight against an enemy risking around 50k isk and us risking roughly 1.4-1.9 million depending on the fitting doesn't sound like it should be that way.
Now correct me if I am wrong but it's not very likely that full proto infantry loses to full militia infantry in 1v1, or is it? That is the price difference at play.
If I am playing on my alt and see the enemy calling in a tank I die of laughter because even if I can't kill it, the round doesn't last long enough for me to lose as much isk trying to kill it as he is risking isk just bringing it on the battlefield. So I couldn't give a **** because I can't possibly lose enough isk to care in comparison to the stasifaction of destroying so much isk, lol.

From all the tank threads that I have been reading through it does seem like tankers want to have a tank that can pretty much rip through a team by its self. I did not mean all tankers, just a lot of them. It seems like they want the tank to be able to do everything on its own and not have to have any support to kill lots of infantry. infantry have to be able to take out tanks, maybe its a little to good, however I feel tanks are in a good place, they can do quite a lot if properly supported.
The question of how much vehicles should cost is a tough one, to little there will be spam, too much and pilots will complain. My python runs me 1.1 mil and is far less survivable than your tank suseptible to all forms of av and even core flaylocks. However when I use it right and with a good gunner we can litterally surpress the entire enemy team. I think the price is right, just be smart about it.

More health and less repping would just be buffer tanking in EVE terms. I want a massive amount of PG to increase my survivability and the existing armor reps to stay. My 50 ton piece of reinforced hardened steel should take the entire team to take it down. Now it takes 2-3 guys. Eventually 1 guy with militia AV will be the end to a Madrugar. There is no adapting. You can literally take one swarm volley and then you must retreat. For 1.5 million isk? Hell No! For 850k isk? Hell No! For 500k isk? Still the answer is no. It is ridiculous. If this bug is fixed vehicles die. There are no exceptions. Resist will not save us. Buffer tanking will not save us. OUR OWN DEV'S WILL NOT SAVE US. Tank drivers are quickly becoming a fading breed. Mark my words. There will be ZERO nonmilitia vehicles on the field after the fix and all of the full time pilots will move on.