DUST Search - CCP's Failure to Lead on Vehicles

Pvt Numnutz wrote:

MarasdF Loron wrote:

Pvt Numnutz wrote:

Well that's a good reason for tankers to play it safe instead of gunhoe gi joe. All I'm saying is teamwork is the most OP weapon in this game. I had the luxury of realising from the myron stage that I'm useless without teammates, I'm simply stating that tankers have this idea in their heads that they should just show up and be able to kill everyone, I'm saying that you need teamwork to survive in this hell of a universe.

I don't think any of us thinks that we should be able to kill anyone and everyone. However losing a 1v1 fight against an enemy risking around 50k isk and us risking roughly 1.4-1.9 million depending on the fitting doesn't sound like it should be that way.
Now correct me if I am wrong but it's not very likely that full proto infantry loses to full militia infantry in 1v1, or is it? That is the price difference at play.
If I am playing on my alt and see the enemy calling in a tank I die of laughter because even if I can't kill it, the round doesn't last long enough for me to lose as much isk trying to kill it as he is risking isk just bringing it on the battlefield. So I couldn't give a **** because I can't possibly lose enough isk to care in comparison to the stasifaction of destroying so much isk, lol.

From all the tank threads that I have been reading through it does seem like tankers want to have a tank that can pretty much rip through a team by its self. I did not mean all tankers, just a lot of them. It seems like they want the tank to be able to do everything on its own and not have to have any support to kill lots of infantry. infantry have to be able to take out tanks, maybe its a little to good, however I feel tanks are in a good place, they can do quite a lot if properly supported.
The question of how much vehicles should cost is a tough one, to little there will be spam, too much and pilots will complain. My python runs me 1.1 mil and is far less survivable than your tank suseptible to all forms of av and even core flaylocks. However when I use it right and with a good gunner we can litterally surpress the entire enemy team. I think the price is right, just be smart about it.


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KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.07.21 05:28:00 - [1] - Quote I am sure a lot of people were drawn to Dust based on the many trailers containing several HAVs and dropships as they stormed the battlefield. They are shown fighting each other, infantry, and even the environment. I too was amazed at this and skilled into vehicles during chromosome. Flash forward to Uprising. Vehicles have no way to increase their ability to survive and are continually destroyed by proto AV. They cost unreasonable amounts of ISK and have the most bugs of anything in the game. Their operators are some of the most dedicated players on the battlefield as one mistake costs them over an hour of grinding ISK. Only the occasional enjoyment is keeping operators around. Now to the armor repair fix and beyond. Eventually there will be ZERO 'real' (non militia and skilled) vehicles on the battlefield. It will just be AR vs AR. Those trailers will be so far fetched that even a dev might admit it, not that they would even reply to a vehicle related post. With the continued extermination process of vehicles, operators are continually decreasing in numbers. Those who stay will be forced to skill into other areas as whatever SP they have spent on vehicles has been made obsolete. Sound unreasonable? By September, if nothing beneficial to vehicles happens, it will be true. CCP STEP UP Admit that something is wrong. Play your game through the role of a vehicle specialist against real players. FIRE Minor Wang CCP Blam Whoever is running the vehicle operations and AV balance They have done nothing but render us more and more obsolete, until we are no longer viable. SHOW SOME REPECT Your numbers don't add up (economically for vehicles, damage, or repping/boost) We have proven this over and over AND OVER AND OVER YET YOU HAVE YET TO RESPOND Unless AV is nerfed into the ground across the board in 1.4 I will be specing into other roles or asking for a respec. If this seems like any other fps when I do that, I will be leaving to play a much more refined FPS. GET REAL You still have time to fix this. Sit down and crunch the numbers for AV vs any tank. You will be just as frustrated as us if you do you will be just as speechless as us at times. FIX IT Re-balance vehicles and AV. Tanks should act like 50 ton blocks of steel on treads, dropships should fit their role and not die in two shots, LAVs shouldn't strike fear into every soldier. NOTE Maybe we should make a list of all the vehicle drivers who are on the way out so CCP could see? I mean they are the infantry's pet so I guess then no one will be between their AR vs AR battles any longer.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.07.21 05:53:00 - [2] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: lol did this guy said "show some respect"? Ok mr. tough guy. I don't know what "respect" you think needs to be shown. I swear some of you guys were probably the male cheerleaders in school Well, they respect your decision to skill into infantry related areas. You have proficencies, different level suits, a wide range of weapons, and can't be completely countered by one player on the enemy team. You can run cheap suits and still be effective. If you get disconnected you don't lose any money. You start making profit a quarter of the way through the match. You have countless ways to destroy vehicles that don't require great risk. VEHICLES HAVE NONE OF WHAT I JUST LISTED.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:00:00 - [3] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: I agree with all your points (besides firing people, i belive in second chances and i think, that 1.4 will be blam!` second chance) They have both shown continually to be out of touch with the community. If they were to drive one of my madrugars and be blown up by two proto swarm shots, things may change. Then again we might get the response that they are looking into it. real businesses don't pull that crap. They replace ineffective employees with ones who can do the job effectively. That's just how the real world operates.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 144	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:07:00 - [4] - Quote Skihids wrote: I don't know how to make CCP listen. Nearly every dropship pilot specced out of flying in the last opportunity and we still have only a vague promise of a rebalance. Keep asking, but skill an infantry fit so you have something to do for the next year or two while we wait. I may just be fooling around with my corp mates, who are the main reason why I still play this game. The red line is a nice place to snipe from with my new sniper rifles. Unfortunately there are many bugs here as well :( Good thing there is passive SP. Happy Flying whenever they finally balance dropships.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 145	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:13:00 - [5] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: EternalRMG wrote: I agree with all your points (besides firing people, i belive in second chances and i think, that 1.4 will be blam!` second chance) They have both shown continually to be out of touch with the community. If they were to drive one of my madrugars and be blown up by two proto swarm shots, things may change. Then again we might get the response that they are looking into it. real businesses don't pull that crap. They replace ineffective employees with ones who can do the job effectively. That's just how the real world operates. As far as i know blam! Cant code, that might be a the problem also : Have you tought that blam is a human not a robot, he migjt have some RL personal problems to deal with and suchbthibg And again i belive i second chances He has never been my favourite DEV but i think, that 1.4 be his ssecond chance, but if aftrt that it fails, well i might not sullortbhim anymore I know they arent in touch with the community, but the only devs in touch with are foxfour and sometimes frame (mintchip too but as far as i know she doesnt develop anything) As I have said before, dont get me wrong about Blam's situation if there is one. If he has a RL problem, then someone should be there to step up and drive the ship while he is unable. There is nothing personal here. It just seems they are dillusional with the current state of vehicles and aren't listening to the people who spend countless hours skilling, buying, and using them.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.07.21 14:55:00 - [6] - Quote More health and less repping would just be buffer tanking in EVE terms. I want a massive amount of PG to increase my survivability and the existing armor reps to stay. My 50 ton piece of reinforced hardened steel should take the entire team to take it down. Now it takes 2-3 guys. Eventually 1 guy with militia AV will be the end to a Madrugar. There is no adapting. You can literally take one swarm volley and then you must retreat. For 1.5 million isk? Hell No! For 850k isk? Hell No! For 500k isk? Still the answer is no. It is ridiculous. If this bug is fixed vehicles die. There are no exceptions. Resist will not save us. Buffer tanking will not save us. OUR OWN DEV'S WILL NOT SAVE US. Tank drivers are quickly becoming a fading breed. Mark my words. There will be ZERO nonmilitia vehicles on the field after the fix and all of the full time pilots will move on.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:05:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: As a former dropship pilot and someone who now owns an Ishukone, I can safely say I have no faith in CCPs ability to properly balance Vehicles and AV. My next step might be to get some Proto forge guns since they seem to be CCPs second child, after Proto swarms of course. You would swear they are trying to usher the vehicle operators out the door.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:11:00 - [8] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: Vehicles are too OP in this game. Not wasting my time to list just how UP they are. Ever hear of a calculator? Crunch the numbers and STFU
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 152	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:30:00 - [9] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: Any game you can joyride and go 16-0 is unacceptable. Regardless how few times it may be who it's against this tactic should NEVER produce those kind of results. NEVER in any shooter. AV or not. In BF vehicles were OP as hell but even than guys wouldn't just drive around in jeeps going 20-0 10-0 9-0 just running people over. I have never seen this tactic so damn effective. Vehicles are TOO OP, NOT UP , OP OVER POWERED. Vehicles are UP. Crunch the numbers. The only thing that produces good results with them are the awesome pilots behind the controls and armor reps. Take either or both of these away and you can have fun without my tank on the battle field which costs more than your suits for 10 matches
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 154	Posted - 2013.07.21 15:49:00 - [10] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: Any game you can joyride and go 16-0 is unacceptable. Regardless how few times it may be who it's against this tactic should NEVER produce those kind of results. NEVER in any shooter. AV or not. In BF vehicles were OP as hell but even than guys wouldn't just drive around in jeeps going 20-0 10-0 9-0 just running people over. I have never seen this tactic so damn effective. Vehicles are TOO OP, NOT UP , OP OVER POWERED. Vehicles are UP. Crunch the numbers. The only thing that produces good results with them are the awesome pilots behind the controls and armor reps. Take either or both of these away and you can have fun without my tank on the battle field which costs more than your suits for 10 matches This isn't Spreadsheet Online. This isn't Spreadsheet514 crunching numbers won't prove wrong what we see with our eyes. If you wanna crunch numbers go back into the stars and swim around in your fish bowl. Down here on the ground we have a different mentality. We want a FPS NOT a RPG that pretends to be a MMOFPS. Driving around in a truck should never be as effective as shooting a gun. Under no circumstance should driving around running people over produce positive results as a killing weapon. Till this is fixed whining QQers about vehicles will never be heard. Did I mention an LAV in my post? Ever hear of prox mines or remote explosives? My limbus has your name all over it the next time I see you-red or blue.

KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 154	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:05:00 - [11] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: I was hoping for an intelligent conversation on this but silly me ...because game forum There is no point to having a balanced conversation anymore. Go check out take cover or die's tank petition. Loads of good ideas. However, no response by a dev yet. This thread has over 3000 views, but no dev input or response. I am just stating the eventual end of vehicles and was interrupted by a troll (xiro or whatever). Facts don't lie. Vehicles RIP 1.4
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 154	Posted - 2013.07.21 16:17:00 - [12] - Quote LT apparition wrote: Perhaps your just a crappy operator ? my cousin Destroys EVERYONE in her Tanks, and Lav..... your just not using them right I'm sure...I'd say they need abit more armor/shielding than they do have starting out. but other than that. tanks are still Viable. this is a reply to the original poster. I have 15000 kills and utilize every edge to my advantage. I have seen it all and fought with the best Tankers in the game. I can countered by ONE PERSON. I am not a crappy operator. Any tank can be torn apart by ONE Proto AV user. Soon it will be ONE MILITIA AV USER. Just because I am not well known for driving tanks doesn't mean I am bad at it by any means. Does your cousin see any Proto AV in her tank? Obviously not.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 155	Posted - 2013.07.21 17:49:00 - [13] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Well that's a good reason for tankers to play it safe instead of gunhoe gi joe. All I'm saying is teamwork is the most OP weapon in this game. I had the luxury of realising from the myron stage that I'm useless without teammates, I'm simply stating that tankers have this idea in their heads that they should just show up and be able to kill everyone, I'm saying that you need teamwork to survive in this hell of a universe. I don't think any of us thinks that we should be able to kill anyone and everyone. However losing a 1v1 fight against an enemy risking around 50k isk and us risking roughly 1.4-1.9 million depending on the fitting doesn't sound like it should be that way. Now correct me if I am wrong but it's not very likely that full proto infantry loses to full militia infantry in 1v1, or is it? That is the price difference at play. If I am playing on my alt and see the enemy calling in a tank I die of laughter because even if I can't kill it, the round doesn't last long enough for me to lose as much isk trying to kill it as he is risking isk just bringing it on the battlefield. So I couldn't give a **** because I can't possibly lose enough isk to care in comparison to the stasifaction of destroying so much isk, lol. Exactly right
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 155	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:32:00 - [14] - Quote Cyra Celeste wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Another solution would be to increase tanking a ton like 3-4x health but drastically reduce the ability to self heal. Basically what can't happen is tanks requiring 10-20 proto AV shots and then being able to drive off and heal in the redline for a minute or two. Or giv AV e-war options to disable guns and movement, then tanks could be way beefier. But if you just buff tanks you will see a domino effect of more, stronger tanks and frustrated AV leaving to go shoot squishy men. Then tanks will just smash everything. ^ I like this option, mot other shooter games do not give vehicles the ability to self heal at any significant rate unless its a gimmick in single player. You guys forgot about recall, didn't you? I frown upon recalling unless the tank has already served its desired purpose. It tends to be abused and I rarely use it. How is that supposed to be a fix to the problems? Should I go change my drop suit because a Proto suit is running at my militia suit? Besides, by the time my tank is recalled Proto AV will have already destroyed it during the hacking phase.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 155	Posted - 2013.07.21 18:39:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: knows nothing about vehicles or the role they should fill Stop posting on vehicle threads unless you have fair criticism. You clearly have little idea how the life of a vehicle specialist has been. Stop being a CCP lap dog and admit that there is a problem, LOTS OF PROBLEMS. Why don't you take the tank petition and other great threads and put them in as feedback to your CPM duties. You may be of the Christmas card list for this year, but it would be the right thing to do.
KenKaniff69 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 156	Posted - 2013.07.21 19:07:00 - [16] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Well that's a good reason for tankers to play it safe instead of gunhoe gi joe. All I'm saying is teamwork is the most OP weapon in this game. I had the luxury of realising from the myron stage that I'm useless without teammates, I'm simply stating that tankers have this idea in their heads that they should just show up and be able to kill everyone, I'm saying that you need teamwork to survive in this hell of a universe. I don't think any of us thinks that we should be able to kill anyone and everyone. However losing a 1v1 fight against an enemy risking around 50k isk and us risking roughly 1.4-1.9 million depending on the fitting doesn't sound like it should be that way. Now correct me if I am wrong but it's not very likely that full proto infantry loses to full militia infantry in 1v1, or is it? That is the price difference at play. If I am playing on my alt and see the enemy calling in a tank I die of laughter because even if I can't kill it, the round doesn't last long enough for me to lose as much isk trying to kill it as he is risking isk just bringing it on the battlefield. So I couldn't give a **** because I can't possibly lose enough isk to care in comparison to the stasifaction of destroying so much isk, lol. From all the tank threads that I have been reading through it does seem like tankers want to have a tank that can pretty much rip through a team by its self. I did not mean all tankers, just a lot of them. It seems like they want the tank to be able to do everything on its own and not have to have any support to kill lots of infantry. infantry have to be able to take out tanks, maybe its a little to good, however I feel tanks are in a good place, they can do quite a lot if properly supported. The question of how much vehicles should cost is a tough one, to little there will be spam, too much and pilots will complain. My python runs me 1.1 mil and is far less survivable than your tank suseptible to all forms of av and even core flaylocks. However when I use it right and with a good gunner we can litterally surpress the entire enemy team. I think the price is right, just be smart about it. So an hour of grinding isk to lose a vehicle in 5 minutes? That is not the right balance.