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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pikachu Power
XERCORE
E X T E R M I N A T U S
43
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
McFurious wrote:I have no problem with match making based on skill points so long as it pays out a lot more at higher skill levels. I mean a lot more.
If we're gonna get matched up with people with similar skill levels, that means at proto level we'll be seeing a lot more proto suits. Proto suits are expensive and 200-400k ISK per battle isn't going to cut it.
Good point. Payouts would need to be quadrupled. lol |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
264
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Heres an idea.
Make all matches available in the 'battle finder' for starters. Have you learnt nothing from Merc battles CCP!!
Ahem.. excuse me..
Have three ranks of matches.
-Rank A High payouts
-Rank B Medium payouts
-Ranc C Low payouts
People who run proto gear dont want a 120k payout (ala low payout rank) Wereas people who run millitia gear might want a 'higher' payout (300k) so they run Rank A matches and hope that the team they are on will give them the return needed.
My theory is, if the battle payout is going to be that much of a loss then you wont run Proto gear simple. If you do run 1 suit then you better not die!
On the otherhand Millitia guys can go into a low rank battle and expect a decent fight with the 'odd' protobear rather than stacked teams. But at the same time losing 10 15k suits won't be an issue.
We have been born and bred mercanaries since day dot. As such our mind set is either;
-More money
-More Skill points
-Something for free.
Capitalise on this.
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xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
255
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
people in bpos would just go into high payout matches - wouldnt solve anything |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood
265
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
xAckie wrote:people in bpos would just go into high payout matches - wouldnt solve anything - whats the difference to the current situation?
Errm have you not read the thread?
The whole arguement is people getting crushed by 'Proto' gear isn't fun So we need a way of removing 'proto gear' from the earlier matches we ae exposing the nooobs to.
So to solve this you amend the payouts so people who run proto will not make money after the first death. Thus they decide to run BPO's (as you say) and then the battlefield even outs a bit.
Rather than STACK PROTO Vs Millitia Scrubs.
At the end of the day ive grinded my SP to a significant level to be effective with ANY assault rifle. (May id sufggest any noob do the same with their weapon of choice) Thats how RPG's work bro. |
Drevenger
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
One big flaw against this system is, what happen if I have 27 mil SP and I tag up with some newberries that average 2 or 3 million SP per.
No really, theres no point to complicate yourself,
Matchmake by gear. Two level, MLT & STD together with low payout. ADV & PRO with better payout. Maybe a few tweak with vehicle restriction or remove vehicle completely for the MLT & STD level.
Keep it simple stupid. Now put your work force at developing new content, new type of maps, thank you. |
TheWee BabySeamus
Dem Durrty Boyz
25
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Posted - 2013.07.20 08:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
In order for matchmaking to work properly, you need to have a good number of players online. DUST has barely over 5K at peak hours..............................that is half the problem. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
732
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Posted - 2013.07.20 09:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
Skill level or SP level?
You guys came up with the confusing nomenclature for your experience point leveling system. Would be nice if you spent extra care distinguishing between the two. |
Odiain Suliis
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
167
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Posted - 2013.07.20 09:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
hooc order wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Skill level or SP level? You guys came up with the confusing nomenclature for your experience point leveling system. Would be nice if you spent extra care distinguishing between the two. Quote:this is New Eden after all Titans can fly in high-sec yes? Quit pretending like New Edan is hardcore when it clearly is not.
I would like to know IF protogear == titan, what I mean by that is is proto gear is the end of training things?
Do we know? Are we sure that there is just MLT, STD, ADV and PRO gear to each 'role'? |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
Top Men.
732
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Posted - 2013.07.20 09:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Odiain Suliis wrote:hooc order wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Skill level or SP level? You guys came up with the confusing nomenclature for your experience point leveling system. Would be nice if you spent extra care distinguishing between the two. Quote:this is New Eden after all Titans can fly in high-sec yes? Quit pretending like New Edan is hardcore when it clearly is not. I would like to know IF protogear == titan, what I mean by that is is proto gear is the end of training things? Do we know? Are we sure that there is just MLT, STD, ADV and PRO gear to each 'role'?
Right now? Yes we are sure.
Should also point out that EvE has the same tiers for gear....or at least it did when i played the 14 day trial like 2 years ago. |
Duck Drahko
DUST University
Ivy League
39
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Posted - 2013.07.20 10:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Drevenger wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. One big flaw against this system is, what happen if I have 27 mil SP and I tag up with some newberries that average 2 or 3 million SP per. No really, theres no point to complicate yourself, Matchmake by gear. Two level, MLT & STD together with low payout. ADV & PRO with better payout. Maybe a few tweak with vehicle restriction or remove vehicle completely for the MLT & STD level. Keep it simple stupid. Now put your work force at developing new content, new type of maps so vets feel a bit disorientated, thank you.
I'm pretty sure he meant real skill, not "level of your SP". :)
I don't think there is any point in discussing it really until we know exactly what CCP has in mind for it. Simple match making based on your real skill could lead to the odd situation where people will be discouraged from running expensive gear on publics, since it won't likely be efficient (unless ISK rewards grow exponentially). While there is nothing wrong with that in general, it seems like it wouldn't be in CCPs interest not to encourage the use of high end gear (which people may pay for).
So for now I'll just wait and see. |
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
124
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Posted - 2013.07.20 10:27:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
how is this going to effect people who have a more balanced approach to skilling. my current sp amount says i'm a proto bear but i don't use any. im a support player. i switch roles so others don't have too and this means my sp is spread out making me neither poorly skilled at anything but certainly not pro skilled at anything also |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
1958
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Posted - 2013.07.20 12:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
The true test of good matchmaking will be if the prediction on how effective you and your team will be against another can adapt to a lot of these difficult to track variables. Right now we are experimenting with a few different ways of doing this and the simulations are looking promising so far.
To the point about scaling rewards, we actually do adjust the reward payout based on the gear used in battle. This doesn't vary that much at the moment because we have quite mixed battles but in theory if the matchmaking can produce higher tier battles then I would expect to see higher tier payouts. This is something we will probably have to review once the new system is in place.
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GET ATMESON
NEW AGE EMPIRE
70
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Posted - 2013.07.20 12:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
Careful changing the match ups. Once anyone, including me find out the carebears of dust are on another matchmaking and we bust in there. Be prepared for way more QQ'ing.
This might work to prevent High SP players against Low SP players . Lets say if a friend and I both have 5mill SP but are friend has 10mill SP. All 3 of us are in a party. Try to do a ambush with a sp limit of 4-6Mill SP player group. It wont allow the squad into join. Until the player with 10Mill SP leaves.
To fix this you could do settings on the party to "no SP limit" to make it so it match's you up against players like it does now.
Then if you want change it later to settings that you like. Could be 250,000 SP - 2Mill SP( I forgot there starting SP your given) 2,000 ,001 SP - 4Mill SP. ECT but with only a gap of 2Mill SP each time.
To be 100% truthful. I don't care about players QQ about that match's they are thrown into. This is an idea for CCP so players will stop crying. I never once cared about going against a player with more SP then me. Its not the SP that matters. Its the player + player's. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2186
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Posted - 2013.07.20 12:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
The true test of good matchmaking will be if the prediction on how effective you and your team will be against another can adapt to a lot of these difficult to track variables. Right now we are experimenting with a few different ways of doing this and the simulations are looking promising so far.
To the point about scaling rewards, we actually do adjust the reward payout based on the gear used in battle. This doesn't vary that much at the moment because we have quite mixed battles but in theory if the matchmaking can produce higher tier battles then I would expect to see higher tier payouts. This is something we will probably have to review once the new system is in place.
True or false - are you intending to use the trueskill system (similar variants included in the question)? If yes, what adjustments have you made for DUST? If no, what system are you using? |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
102
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Posted - 2013.07.20 12:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
The true test of good matchmaking will be if the prediction on how effective you and your team will be against another can adapt to a lot of these difficult to track variables. Right now we are experimenting with a few different ways of doing this and the simulations are looking promising so far.
To the point about scaling rewards, we actually do adjust the reward payout based on the gear used in battle. This doesn't vary that much at the moment because we have quite mixed battles but in theory if the matchmaking can produce higher tier battles then I would expect to see higher tier payouts. This is something we will probably have to review once the new system is in place.
my "militia" mode idea seems wayyy easier lol u only allow militia gear for a militia match and so on and so forth if we wanted to split it up but tbh I think we could only do militia for new players and reg for normal players |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
WE ARE LEGENDS
148
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Posted - 2013.07.20 13:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Spill the beans, Nully. |
SERPENT-Adamapple
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
133
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Posted - 2013.07.20 14:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.
When you say skill level, do you mean KDR or WP or SP?
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Dale Templar
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
331
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Posted - 2013.07.20 15:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
The only people who want Proto out of instant battle are people who can't run proto, fact. |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
WE ARE LEGENDS
148
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Posted - 2013.07.20 16:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dale Templar wrote:The only people who want Proto out of instant battle are people who can't run proto, fact.
I run proto. I want it out. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1069
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Posted - 2013.07.20 16:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dale Templar wrote:The only people who want Proto out of instant battle are people who can't run proto, fact.
Not at all true. |
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
62
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Posted - 2013.07.21 04:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:my "militia" mode idea seems wayyy easier lol u only allow militia gear for a militia match and so on and so forth if we wanted to split it up but tbh I think we could only do militia for new players and reg for normal players
Easier? sure. But not as capable.
For example, lets say you have a bunch of players, all of whom are wearing the same gear, and you want to divvy them up into two games. Because you only sorted on gear you don't have the information you need to make a meaningful decision on who should go where. With the system that Nullarbor is working on, you would have additional information on those players, so you could sort them based off of their skill. Now you get two games where skill levels are more balanced, instead of random.
This also allows for situations that go beyond tiers of gear. If for example we had a really good player, lets call him BOB. BOB is new to the game and only has militia gear. His skill though might let him fight above his gear level, so he is closer matched to me and my advanced gear. A gear based filter would keep us apart, even though a fight between us might be perfect.
The other downside to gear based filters is what happens if the best suit i can wear is milita, with half the modules advanced. Where would you place that person? Or how about the person who went headlong into their weapon, and runs a proto weapon on a milita suit. Where would they go? The filtering quickly becomes unclear. |
Ld Collins
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.07.21 05:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
~never mind~ |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
127
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Posted - 2013.07.21 15:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
base it on kd ratio lol |
Cobra CLUTCH79
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2013.07.21 16:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
personally i dont care what gear someone else is using if their proto to the max and they off me then o.k. fine he/she worked their ass off to get that far i'll use measures to either counter or avoid them killing me again and again and after all is said and done it just makes me a better player.. i remember when i was fresh out the academy it was terrible omg it was a nightmare but i kept fighting, learning, and applying what i've learned to battle now im someone elses bad dream..anyway i like running into a near godlike suit and trying to kill it usually it kills my mortal ass but sometimes theres that time when david drops goliath..i think the matchups are fine if my team is crushed well thats gonna happen from time to time..The kind of game this is says one thing and only one... ADAPT OR DIE.. and i love it. |
Pandora Mars
Afterlife Overseers
129
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Posted - 2013.07.21 18:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Just to clarify by skill level I don't mean skill points, I mean actual battle effectiveness. In practical terms this could be due to your gear, your skill points, the design of your fittings or choice of weapons, whether you are playing in a squad, whether you use voice comms, whether you are using your preferred input device, how good your internet connection is, your situational awareness of the battle field, how good you are at aiming etc etc.
There is not a value to represent all this in DUST.
A MM built around vague criteria could be even worse than no MM at all.
How?
Let's say MM thinks those 5 guys are badass because they are proto fitted, kigh kdr, high SP etc etc...
And I found myself playing with 5 redline snipers against a competitive team. Auto-loss.
(just an example)
My idea of MM is to keep variety while balancing the 2 different teams.
Newbies also need to fight better players to get better themselves and good players need to run into some not-so-good player as well or let's face it, the game is going to be extremely frustrating for them.
Take 32 players and make 2 even teams by considering sp, wp, gear, (not sure about ratios because they are a joke) and SQUADS.
When a 4+ man squad is picked, there should be another 4+man squad in the other team. Very simple. No big deal if I have to wait a little more when playing in a squad, we have mic's and there is much to talk about.
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Skipper Jones
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
474
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Posted - 2013.07.21 18:32:00 -
[56] - Quote
Gear based matchmaking is a terrible idea. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
743
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Posted - 2013.07.22 23:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles.
Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Thanks, for a minute I was scared that you would take away the sandbox for good. by sandbox I mean pubstomping (sandbox just sounds less evil) You heard it here first, gentlemen: the sandbox is pubstomping.
Pretty much how EVE works. |
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