DUST Search - Gear based match-making.

Young-tree wrote:

Wait now wait now...

That wouldn't make any sense - fair enough, you could have a *mode* to make the MAX metalevel .. and then you would only be able to choose certain fits of yours... but a better alternative (in my opinon) would be to adjust the matchmaking as follows:

Balance based on Average Warpoints over past Month.

If you apply this, it would literally balance the situation. People who kill allot would be getting their warpoitns this way, where as people who rush from point to point capping could still be in these matches, and Logi's who just revive would need to pay more attention to reviving.
Snipers would still be able to function by picking off their odd target here and there.

It could also make people try different roles to boost WP to get into better matches.

I think this, coupled with the low player base would be a better alternative to filtering by skills/metalevel.
This would, of course, mean that pubstompers would be matched together, having great tough battles - and the average for everyone would go down to around 600-1200 WP.

To be honest, i'd much prefer to lose a game and have a good fight than pubstomp - playing against people with your skill level/slightly higher is always more fun as the sense of achievement is far greater - and the match is allot less dull and one-sided.

2c.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 142	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:21:00 - [1] - Quote So CCP promised us a better matchmaking system to prevent squads of proto-bears squashing new players. There are to opinions of this : 1) New players think of this as the solution of all their problems. 2) Proto-Bears thinks of this as CCP nerfing the sandbox element. So that means CCP have different ways of approaching this : 1) Player chosen matchmaking - players freely choose to be stomped by proto-bears(unlikely) or proto-bear submits to using the gear limitations. 2) Automatic match making that automatically matches pro-bears with pro-bears and nubletz with nubletz. What bothers me is that CCP could take the second route and take out the Sandbox element therefore disallowing people with greater skill to fight against P-B and taking away the means for P-B to save money.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 249	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:28:00 - [2] - Quote There is no sandbox (this is a problem) It's 16v16 Match making by gear makes sense the way you describe but then defeats the point of playing an rpg where you play against characters at different levels. We might as well say we are playing a lobby shooter with no rpg elements otherwise. What would be better is a sandbox environment or a faster way to get into PC matches rather than the 1.5 hours to play one at the moment etc higher levelled players move to areas where the reward is more, leaving lower players free from stomping.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 142	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:43:00 - [3] - Quote If I got you right then you're saying that PC should attract all the proto-bears so the new players can have fun in the pub matches. But the problem is PC isn't that fun. Frame Rate the most OP gear. A while back people started backing out of PC because it was hard work rather than having fun. (I know this is EVE but everything has a limit) Another solution would be enhancing the faction gameplay and adding equal gear for everyone to use. A lot of players who like the lore would fight for the faction they prefer to gain faction standing points.
Dale Templar Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 290	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:52:00 - [4] - Quote But I enjoy stomping, and getting stomped, if I went up against people with equal skill and equipment all the time it would be boring, the whole point in having such a deep fittings system is customisation and individuality. Match Making is not needed, balance is needed.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 6246	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:53:00 - [5] - Quote How would you enforce it?
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 142	Posted - 2013.07.19 07:58:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How would you enforce it? Could you be a bit more specific?
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 665	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:01:00 - [7] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050658#post1050658 Here is my idea.
Eriknaught Vader's Taco Shack 92	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:02:00 - [8] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: How would you enforce it? Could you be a bit more specific? I recommend flamethrowers. That is all. Eriknaught out. END TRANSMISSION.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 142	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:07:00 - [9] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050658#post1050658 Here is my idea. Holy S*it it's a smart idea! I thought about simply having matches with all the gear from one meta level but your idea very clever. +1 Only problem would be tanks. They would only be facing low meta players as there are no proto tanks. But there are proto turrets and modules so having a different meta level for tanks is great.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 249	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:22:00 - [10] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: If I got you right then you're saying that PC should attract all the proto-bears so the new players can have fun in the pub matches. But the problem is PC isn't that fun. Frame Rate the most OP gear. A while back people started backing out of PC because it was hard work rather than having fun. (I know this is EVE but everything has a limit) Another solution would be enhancing the faction gameplay and adding equal gear for everyone to use. A lot of players who like the lore would fight for the faction they prefer to gain faction standing points. PC needs to be fixed / mechanics changed. And an MMO element brought in. Not sure what you mean by most OP gear in PC - thats the point... @robot that doesnt fix the problem either. The game is supposed to be an RPG. Whats the point of an RPG if you cant grind and then use the gear? the solution to limit by equipment pushes the game back to a standard FPS lobby shooter with no need to grind (we currently have the lobby part now - hence a PC fix needed) FW should be opened up so corps can field full sides and an Eve link established where players can pay corps to take districts etc that have a real impact on FW. This will move higher tiered/ gear people to FW away from pubs too and would actually start to make FW relevant

Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 143	Posted - 2013.07.19 08:25:00 - [11] - Quote xAckie wrote: [quote=Ansiiis The Trustworthy]If I got you right then you're saying that PC should attract all the proto-bears so the new players can have fun in the pub matches. Not sure what you mean by most OP gear in PC - thats the point... ....... and would actually start to make FW relevant When alliances make treaties to not use flaylocks it kind of explains my statement.
Duck Drahko DUST University Ivy League 32	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:03:00 - [12] - Quote I haven't seen any indication that CCP would consider a separation based on gear, so I don't see a reason to worry about that. As a new player, I have no issue with proto gear, I just want more balanced matches. And IMO the biggest detriment to balanced matches isn't proto gear but organised squads. It just happens to be worse when these organised squads are all decked out in proto gear.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 143	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:08:00 - [13] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: I haven't seen any indication that CCP would consider a separation based on gear, so I don't see a reason to worry about that. As a new player, I have no issue with proto gear, I just want more balanced matches. And IMO the biggest detriment to balanced matches isn't proto gear but organised squads. It just happens to be worse when these organised squads are all decked out in proto gear. I believe that faction battles should prevent organised squads bigger than 3.
Duck Drahko DUST University Ivy League 33	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:17:00 - [14] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Duck Drahko wrote: I haven't seen any indication that CCP would consider a separation based on gear, so I don't see a reason to worry about that. As a new player, I have no issue with proto gear, I just want more balanced matches. And IMO the biggest detriment to balanced matches isn't proto gear but organised squads. It just happens to be worse when these organised squads are all decked out in proto gear. I believe that faction battles should prevent organised squads bigger than 3. Is this a suggestion or are you saying it already works this way? I was thinking recently that it would make sense if Factional Warfare would be limited to solo players. But then it also has to become much easier to get a FW match, I can't even be bothered checking anymore if 90% of the time I get "match already full".
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 668	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:19:00 - [15] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1050658#post1050658 Here is my idea. Holy S*it it's a smart idea! I thought about simply having matches with all the gear from one meta level but your idea very clever. +1 Only problem would be tanks. They would only be facing low meta players as there are no proto tanks. But there are proto turrets and modules so having a different meta level for tanks is great. I don't like the idea of disallowing certain vehicles though. HAVs would only be restricted in the first couple of sec stat systems because they are basic training and testing grounds. I hate restrictions on where players can go based on their stats but separating the battle and only allowing a total suit meta would help the stomping of noobs and give players a graduated progression from starter to proto. The system I outlined does not restrict high level players from entering low level matches but it does stop the from protowning less skilled or newer players.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 143	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:19:00 - [16] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Duck Drahko wrote: I haven't seen any indication that CCP would consider a separation based on gear, so I don't see a reason to worry about that. As a new player, I have no issue with proto gear, I just want more balanced matches. And IMO the biggest detriment to balanced matches isn't proto gear but organised squads. It just happens to be worse when these organised squads are all decked out in proto gear. I believe that faction battles should prevent organised squads bigger than 3. Is this a suggestion or are you saying it already works this way? I was thinking recently that it would make sense if Factional Warfare would be limited to solo players. But then it also has to become much easier to get a FW match, I can't even be bothered checking anymore if 90% of the time I get "match already full". Should - suggestion. And I sometimes play FW just because I'm Caldari.
Novawolf McDustingham The514th The Official Mintchip Fanclub 350	Posted - 2013.07.19 09:30:00 - [17] - Quote Just three tiers of queue - High, Low, Null. High locks out any fit containing advanced through officer, low locks out proto through officer and null locks out nothing. Let the player or squad leader flag for each respective queue and give some sort of either ISK, SP, or drop table bonus for flagging all three to keep queues moving along. Appease the loreaspies by blaming Concord. All fixed.
Young-tree Planetary Response Organization 6	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:30:00 - [18] - Quote Wait now wait now... That wouldn't make any sense - fair enough, you could have a mode to make the MAX metalevel .. and then you would only be able to choose certain fits of yours... but a better alternative (in my opinon) would be to adjust the matchmaking as follows: Balance based on Average Warpoints over past Month. If you apply this, it would literally balance the situation. People who kill allot would be getting their warpoitns this way, where as people who rush from point to point capping could still be in these matches, and Logi's who just revive would need to pay more attention to reviving. Snipers would still be able to function by picking off their odd target here and there. It could also make people try different roles to boost WP to get into better matches. I think this, coupled with the low player base would be a better alternative to filtering by skills/metalevel. This would, of course, mean that pubstompers would be matched together, having great tough battles - and the average for everyone would go down to around 600-1200 WP. To be honest, i'd much prefer to lose a game and have a good fight than pubstomp - playing against people with your skill level/slightly higher is always more fun as the sense of achievement is far greater - and the match is allot less dull and one-sided. 2c.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 143	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:35:00 - [19] - Quote Young-tree wrote: Wait now wait now... That wouldn't make any sense - fair enough, you could have a mode to make the MAX metalevel .. and then you would only be able to choose certain fits of yours... but a better alternative (in my opinon) would be to adjust the matchmaking as follows: Balance based on Average Warpoints over past Month. If you apply this, it would literally balance the situation. People who kill allot would be getting their warpoitns this way, where as people who rush from point to point capping could still be in these matches, and Logi's who just revive would need to pay more attention to reviving. Snipers would still be able to function by picking off their odd target here and there. It could also make people try different roles to boost WP to get into better matches. I think this, coupled with the low player base would be a better alternative to filtering by skills/metalevel. This would, of course, mean that pubstompers would be matched together, having great tough battles - and the average for everyone would go down to around 600-1200 WP. To be honest, i'd much prefer to lose a game and have a good fight than pubstomp - playing against people with your skill level/slightly higher is always more fun as the sense of achievement is far greater - and the match is allot less dull and one-sided. 2c. But it this case you don't have a choice and choice is everything in an MMO. I wouldn't mind having good battles instead of running through the map before your teammates get the kills.
Sir Petersen Valhalla Nord 291	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:52:00 - [20] - Quote No matchmaking please. How on earth are people suppose to get better if only the best can shoot against me?


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 1929	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:26:00 - [21] - Quote Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles. Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2133	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:34:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles. Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. No better challenge then fighting something that doesnt die. Thenagain you guys are fixing the Caldari Logi bonus so, oh well, lol.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 143	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:35:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles. Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Thanks, for a minute I was scared that you would take away the sandbox for good. by sandbox I mean pubstomping (sandbox just sounds less evil)
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2570	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:54:00 - [24] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles. Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Thanks, for a minute I was scared that you would take away the sandbox for good. by sandbox I mean pubstomping (sandbox just sounds less evil) You heard it here first, gentlemen: the sandbox is pubstomping.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 144	Posted - 2013.07.19 11:56:00 - [25] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Yes we are developing a new matchmaking system which adapts to your skill level, so as you get better you should be put into more challenging battles. Having said that we don't think matchmaking has a place for all battles, this is New Eden after all. We are working on plans to expand both faction warfare and planetary conquest to more players, hopefully providing a more "gloves off" battle for those that like that sort of thing. Thanks, for a minute I was scared that you would take away the sandbox for good. by sandbox I mean pubstomping (sandbox just sounds less evil) You heard it here first, gentlemen: the sandbox is pubstomping. There is a lot of logic behind it - sandbox elements allow us to pubstomp. Pubstomp itself allows for many ways of accomplishing the task therefore pubstomp = sandbox.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1512	Posted - 2013.07.19 12:35:00 - [26] - Quote I am sure lack of matchmaking and pub stomping tryhards have a direct correlation to new players leaving. But if you want an empty sandbox, protect the proto bears ability to boost their egos at the expense of a larger player base. Wow, CCP I have backed you, but the dev comment in this thread makes me believe the doom threads a little.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 288	Posted - 2013.07.19 12:40:00 - [27] - Quote Stop using New Eden as an excuse to not have matchmaking based on skill. In New Eden you have HI-sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec. You can always find somewhere that's fits your skill level. The sandbox is part of the game, but there are alternatives to getting stomped.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1512	Posted - 2013.07.19 12:46:00 - [28] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Stop using New Eden as an excuse to not have matchmaking based on skill. In New Eden you have HI-sec, Low-Sec, and Null-Sec. You can always find somewhere that's fits your skill level. The sandbox is part of the game, but there are alternatives to getting stomped. CCP seems disconnected with what is going on. Saying that they will give people more incentive for an alternative to pubstomping (some nonsense about "gloves off") when anybody who is grounded in reality knows they will always choose to pubstomp, as long as the option is available.
McFurious TeamPlayers EoN. 192	Posted - 2013.07.19 12:56:00 - [29] - Quote I have no problem with match making based on skill points so long as it pays out a lot more at higher skill levels. I mean a lot more. If we're gonna get matched up with people with similar skill levels, that means at proto level we'll be seeing a lot more proto suits. Proto suits are expensive and 200-400k ISK per battle isn't going to cut it.
Pikachu Power XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 43	Posted - 2013.07.19 13:28:00 - [30] - Quote I don't like the idea of skill-based matchmaking. It'd be better to set tiers by a sum of the meta of all gear on a dropsuit.



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