Propaganda at it's finest!

Oh, and I'm happy that all those children have used drugs. In fact, I worried for the ones who don't. Why is that? Well, medicine has shown to be beneficial to help with sickness or generally support one's well-being.

Selfishness? Greed? They are both good.


Yes, I know. Shocking. Perhaps a Caldari could help me with this one? Even though they do take this principal too far...

Greed makes the world go round. Money makes the world go round. It is an incentive. Why would I create a business? To make money. Not to help. Not to give my product away. But for money, is all. How is this bad? How is someone making the economy stronger by creating new private businesses? What is the matter with self-interest? What is the matter with selfishness? Nothing, as long as it does not harm another.

Selfishness? Greed? They are both good.

[...] Perhaps a Caldari could help me with this one? Even though they do take this principal too far...

Greed makes the world go round. Money makes the world go round. It is an incentive. Why would I create a business? To make money. Not to help. Not to give my product away. But for money, is all. How is this bad? How is someone making the economy stronger by creating new private businesses? What is the matter with self-interest? What is the matter with selfishness? Nothing, as long as it does not harm another.

Propaganda at it's finest!

Oh, and I'm happy that all those children have used drugs. In fact, I worried for the ones who don't. Why is that? Well, medicine has shown to be beneficial to help with sickness or generally support one's well-being.

Again, you know not of what you speak of. The last word anyone would use to describe the Caldari is selfishness, they are all about the better of the whole, not the individual. Their motto is "All for the good of many." Tell me, Xavier, where did you go for your education?

Mr. Hastings, you ... misunderstand, rather badly.

The Caldari State has been described as a capitalist melee, but the corporations are also governing entities. Caldari citizenship is corporate-- one is normally a "citizen" of one's employer. There is no outside entity that looks out for the well-being of the Caldari people.

The problem with selfishness is that it inspires corporate leaders to take shameless advantage of this situation by undermining the corporate meritocracy in the name of protecting their own power and their descendants. This, coupled with abuse of their power over the technician and laborer castes, led to the "Brothers of Freedom" incident in which New Eden first learned the name, "Tibus Heth."

The Caldari leadership, selected on merit, rules for the good of those it rules over. For this, the State's leaders are rewarded well. It is when they believe they owe the Caldari they rule over nothing, and that they can do as they please in search of their own self-interest, that the system becomes unstable-- and the people rise.

When that happens, the result is not good for the Gallente: the technician and laborer castes, contrary to what (somehow still) seems to be common belief among outsiders, are often among the most conservative of the Caldari. When they rise, it is not to embrace the new, but to enforce the old.

As the Caldari say, "The Winds care about us, not about you or me."

The individual is only a means to an end, not an end in itself-- not even its own.

This is quite interesting. Thank you for this tidbit of information.

Alas, so you wish to renounce citizenship for a God that you cannot prove? Ha! Folly at its best.

The Amarr willingly oppress the Minmatar, our most loyal allies. Actually, no. Oppress is too light of a word. Oppress is too dignified of a word to justify what they are doing! They enslave them, comrade. Can you not see that? Enslave them in the name of their God. To them, the enslavement is just a steppingstone across the river of Religious Faith.

Believe in their God. So be it. If reason cannot penetrate that thick skull of yours, fine. But to renounce the very embodiment of Freedom in this Galaxy to join an empire whose main policy is to enslave others under he guise of Religion?

Absurd, sir. Absurd.

Aye, but as you might not realize, I would not be slaving. I would be fighting for the Amarr, who happen to award very generously. Getting used to the weaponry and the differences in the suit has taken a little while, but I'm getting used to it. And why are you taking offense at my choice to leave? The Gallentte promoted personal liberty, so I used it to leave the Federation. And another thing, the enslaved Minmitar aren't treated as harshly as everyone seems to think. Most teachers are very patient with the Minmitar, and they are well on their way to joining the Empire. Some of the largest and most respect groups in the Empire were once slaves.

I actually have no quarrels with the Caldari. The war between us should of been solved peacefully. But, alas, it was not meant to be.

Interestingly enough, the Gallente were the ones who initiated the violence. Playing off of what Mister Fett has just said, the Federation is all about personal liberty except when you use that liberty to leave.

Aye, but as you might not realize, I would not be slaving. I would be fighting for the Amarr, who happen to award very generously. Getting used to the weaponry and the differences in the suit has taken a little while, but I'm getting used to it. And why are you taking offense at my choice to leave? The Gallentte promoted personal liberty, so I used it to leave the Federation. And another thing, the enslaved Minmitar aren't treated as harshly as everyone seems to think. Most teachers are very patient with the Minmitar, and they are well on their way to joining the Empire. Some of the largest and most respect groups in the Empire were once slaves.

Xavier...... Loyal Allies.... you mean a people you openly discriminate against and use as pawns to prevent our Empire turning its gaze to your borders?

But this wise convert speaks the truth. He is wise to have chosen to enter a covenant with God, his soul shall be forever immortalised in our histories, and our soldiers shall stand shoulder to shoulder with him, honoured to fight and die by his side.

Amarr Victor brother, serve with honour, pride, and courage.

Who started what really depends on your point of view.

Enough, Adamance! You refuse to actually listen to what I say! You hold on to your belief with such a stubbornness I could never fathom! Read my words! Understand what I say!

Slavery is slavery, no matter how hard you are pushed, no matter how hard you toil. In the Federation you have Freedom of Religion. You may believe in whatever God you choose. Or, believe in none at all, as I do. But when you leave our great nation to fight against our very way of life, sir, then I have a problem.


Enough, Adamance! You refuse to actually listen to what I say! You hold on to your belief with such a stubbornness I could never fathom! Read my words! Understand what I say!

In our great nation, discrimination is present. I will admit that. I do admit we have faults. It is unfortunate on what some Minmatar face. But, it is a problem that I believe is getting better. Tolerance is increasing.

Also, define "you". If you mean "you" as in me, then I have nothing further to say to you, because apparently you are so blinded that you simply spit out all the folly you were taught, not even listening to my words. I have nothing against the Minmatar, and I find that quite evident. If you mean "you" as in the Gallente Federation, then yes, it is present. But, it is nothing compared to what you put them through each day.

Do not look upon Amarr slaverly as exploitative discrimination. We do not seek profit from their demise, that is not our nature. Think of the Minmatar as children and the Amarr their parents. We give them chores to build their character, but nothing unreasonable. While they may do these chores, we still care for and respect them. We feed them, clothe them, shelter them. We educate them, and guide them down the right path. All of this is done out of a parents love. Now tell me, do you condemn parenthood?

If there is anything the Amarr are guilty of, it is not protecting our children from the serpents.

I lost my parents, I figure I turned out just fine.

Haha!... I actually hate my life.

Mister Hasting, since you have came to the Summit all you have brought is shouting and laughing at those who do no agree with your logic. Within the summit you are permitted to voice your opinion, but please try to remain civil.

"Even if the Federation was high on victory against the State, military leaders knew that opening a second full-scale war against the Amarr Empire would be fatal. Nonetheless, for a long time, the Federation government observed and studied the Minmatar, realizing that they could be used to weaken the Amarr Empire. However, they realized that open action would force hostilities with the Empire, so they were only able to covertly supply the Minmatar rebels with supplies and materiel."


Percieving my Faith to be ignorance only weakens you stance. Against I understand what it is the Gallente are, and for that I condemn them.

What I cannot accept is the Federations actively allowing its people to corrupt their immortal souls and commit heresies in the name of this "freedom" you preach.

(( you also cannot judge Amarrian slavery by the same standards we OOC would judge slavery, in New Eden the Amarr do it for Faith, unity, and to test the the races they enslave to induct them into the Empire))

Portray me as the villain here? *Sigh*, I suppose I must explain again.

I say I do not agree with you, you claim that I do not understand. I say I do, and say such things as you do because of religion, their toil cause them to be closer to God, ect. Then you further claim that I do not understand, and say exactly when I said previous. I then direct you to what I say previously, then repeat what I said, and now we are at a point you say to say I am yelling. In the Federation, this would be a clear sign of defeat, for the person using these ad hominems perceived to be doing so because they have nothing else to say.

[OOC] The exclamation points were only for emphasis. Sorry if anyone was confused. [/OOC]


I perceive your faith as ignorance because I believe faith itself is ignorance. Of course, that is a discussion for another day, but it does not weaken any stance.

Unlike you, I believe that believe are able to do as they choose, not do what someone else (you, your God) tells them to.

[OOC] You believe I don't understand out of character too? Read my posts, comrade. I explicitly say that I understand that is unity and religion. The fact that my character does not agree with this is, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. [/OOC]


Here is a quote of what I have said in the past:

Enough, Adamance. I have said this many times before. Quit lying to people and saying that I do not, it is simply not true.

Slavery is not parenthood. You may clothe them. You may feed them. They may be the most pampered people in the universe, but it would not matter. The slavery is abhorred. The work you make them do, abhorred. Even though you may do all the aforementioned things above, they still suffer. All in the name of your God. And that, my friend, is the worst of all.

Why is slavery abhorred?

It is because I simply believe the toil they go through is not worth it. The hardships your nation purposefully puts onto them, not worth it. The reason does not matter. The fact that you force them to go through pain and suffering is simply, in my opinion, abhorred. They are human beings, Adamance. No-one deserves to go through that.

But it is worth them going through the toil and suffering to reach enlightenment. Only after which may they know true peace and a fulfilled life.

I must disagree. I have not toiled like they have. I have not suffered like they have, but I am content and happy with my life. It is not just me, there are millions of other people who are content, happy, and at peace without the burden of slavery.

Furthermore, how do we know this enlightenment even exists? It could all be psychological. Almost everything has a logical explanation.

BUt you could be more satisfied with you life correct?

And only in God's service do we know true joy.

Let us not forget that those who live in the slums of the federation are worse off than those in servitude to the Empire.

As of this moment, I am denouncing my Federation citizenship and converting to the Amarr faith. I have recently seen the light and the error in my ways, and if the Lord would allow me, I would happily help unify New Eden in peace and prosperity. I will be considered a traitor, but the Lord will protect me. Nothing the Gallente can do will harm me now.

Biomass your self and create a Amarr character with the same name. Thank you.

But as far as I know, they have never killed their own in political foul play, due to the structure of their government. I met an Amarrian merchant whislt doing my work, and he got me thinking, for the first time in my life, that I could choose to not go with the Federation's bidding. I was much more open to... Outside influence due to my mental state at the time because of said attrocities, and the Amarr happened to be there, particularly this one Amarr merchent, Randerre Izkomust, blessed be him He offered me free passage to the Amarr Empire, and all I need to due was folllow their, quite sensible, religion. Once I borded his ship, he gave me a copy of some Amarr scripture, and told me to study it. And now I am a faithful servant of the Empress and the Lord.

Let us not forget that those who live in the slums of the federation are worse off than those in servitude to the Empire.