DUST Search - Battle Finder

The Robot Devil wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

The playerbase is already divided by server regions.

Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again...

How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive?

The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with.

You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play?

They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people.

Without a large player base matchmaking cannot work. People start the game and get totally owned for a few days and never com back. As soon as a newer player finds a corp and runs in a squad all the match making metrics in the world will not help them if there is only 3000 players to choose from. Too few players messes the data up because the people who are sticking with it are higher level players and they are destroying noobs. With a segregated system the top level players would have to use lower tier gear to fight against full noobs. I not saying stop lower level fit from coming into high level games just stop the pub stomps that happen because of high level gear.

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The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.12 22:40:00 - [1] - Quote Use the security status of the system the battle is in to determine the gear that can be used. Take all the meta ratings from everything on the the suit and add the suit meta number to get the total meta for the entire fit. Use that number to segregate battles so that mercs can choose the difficulty of battles based on suit setups. 1.0 sec status battles would have a total meta of two. I had to use two because the medic carries a meta one injector on a meta one suit. No squads and only free LAVs allowed in the sec stat one battles and with the super low meta level - just enough for starter gear - they would be an automatic training area. 0.9 sec stat would have a total meta of around five. I used five because the starter fits usually have a TM ( total meta) of one and would allow most suits to add a few new items to boost the suit. All militia gear with the exception of suits and equipment are level meta zero and as far as I know all basic gear is meta one. With a TM of 5 a merc could customize a suit with a few basic items or try out weapons that are different. No pre-battle squads, only squads made on the war barge would be allowed and only free LAVs. Mercs can squad up in the war barge but are dropped from the squad at the end. 0.8 sec stat would be around eight. Advanced weapons starts around meta five the modules and suits start around three. Mercs with low skill would know that they were going to up against similar types of suits and weapons. As an added bonus the choices made in fittings and SP would create a wider diversity of suit fit on the battle field because to try out a more advanced item we would have to sacrifice something. I may have an advanced suit with an extra slot that I can only put militia mods into but the guy in the militia suit caring an advanced AR might get me first. War barge squads that last out of battle but no pre battle squads. All militia vehicles and militia mods. 0.7 sec stat would be about 20. With the advanced suit meta at four, weapon at seven and modules at three I think 20 would be a good number. Using eight slots for the standard suit minus the 11 meta points for suit and weapon we could fit nine more meta points to the suit. That is only three advanced mods or nine basic adding to the weight of choices. Prototype gear should start to show up but it would limit module and weapon choices so even lower tier suits that with proper fits and well placed SP would do well. Pre- battle squads allowed and all advanced vehicles and mods. 0.6 sec stat would be 32. Porto suits have a meta number of seven, weapons are eight and modules are four. Suit and weapons at prototype levels would be 15 leaving 17 points to fit 10 modules. 10 proto modules at 4 points each is 40 so there would not be enough points to go around. Again sacrifices would have to be made and choices of fits and SP would have influences. All vehicles allowed. 0.5 sec stat would be 64 and allow more high tier items and better fittings but still keep total proto pub stomps. This last area would be the final stepping stone to anything goes. All of these battles would have standard payout and slavage. These battles are for players of different SP and personal skill and I tried to scale them so they would become progressively harder and pay out differently because of the the gear players use. Low Sec battles would allow any fit and pay out better. Six man pre-battle squads allowed and all vehicle types. Aur weapon drops. All battle types. FW battles would be set up like EVE with size of the plex influencing the type of planetary battle. The novice site creating 0.8 battles, small creating 0.7, medium creating 0.6 and large creating 0.5. These battles would payout better ISK than normal battles and have drop officer gear. These battles are again segregated to allow players of different skill levels to play at the level they are at and experiment with new gear and fits. Null battles are the final type and are totally random on the type of battle selected. These battles would also allow a full war barge team stack. After selecting a battle the merc would have a few minutes to invite as many people as they wanted on their team up to the max. They would not know who is on the other team or what type of battle they would be fighting. Regular, Aur and officer weapon drops with the best pay. These are my ideas for the battle finder. I did not have the time to go to every suit at every tier on every frame size so some numbers will need to be adjusted and talked about. My goal was to have a system similar to EVE that encourages players to move to progressively harder battles in search of ISK and specialize in a role. Separating the battles based on a total meta number ensures that the levels of dropsuits will be similar enough to allow for experimentation.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:26:00 - [2] - Quote Wow not even someone telling me that this isn't EVE.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:30:00 - [3] - Quote The playerbase is already divided by server regions. Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again... How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive? The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2433	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:33:00 - [4] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: The playerbase is already divided by server regions. Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again... How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive? The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with. You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play? They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:34:00 - [5] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play? They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people. If nothing changes now, the problem will be even worse. The obvious solution would be to further increase prices when EVE ISK floods into DUST.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:36:00 - [6] - Quote Our problems now are low numbers and many people think it is because of pub stomps. I agree that the gear should be more expensive but good players have 100 M ISK plus and coat isn't a problem. I think we could retain more players by giving them a place to go that is suited to their ability.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 927	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:39:00 - [7] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Our problems now are low numbers and many people think it is because of pub stomps. I agree that the gear should be more expensive but good players have 100 M ISK plus and coat isn't a problem. I think we could retain more players by giving them a place to go that is suited to their ability. It will be a problem if prototype gear costs the same as a tank. I've managed to lose 10 mill in a week on dropships. Tankers probably lose bigger chunks but at smaller intervals, but I'm willing to bet if they ran tanks every game it wouldn't be profitable. Same applies to dropsuits; except even more. If you're not checking every corner for remote explosives, locus grenades, murder taxis, other protobears, you're going to be set back 6-8 games by one death.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:43:00 - [8] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The playerbase is already divided by server regions. Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again... How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive? The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with. You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play? They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people. Without a large player base matchmaking cannot work. People start the game and get totally owned for a few days and never com back. As soon as a newer player finds a corp and runs in a squad all the match making metrics in the world will not help them if there is only 3000 players to choose from. Too few players messes the data up because the people who are sticking with it are higher level players and they are destroying noobs. With a segregated system the top level players would have to use lower tier gear to fight against full noobs. I not saying stop lower level fit from coming into high level games just stop the pub stomps that happen because of high level gear.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 615	Posted - 2013.07.13 01:50:00 - [9] - Quote @OP Good idea, IDK about the TMs you have proposed, but overall I like the idea. As far as server segregation is concerned, IDK that it would be much of a problem. If the RNG is still determining what sec status the systems we're battling in are (by determining the systems we battle in), it would just force people to have different sets of fits for different systems.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.13 02:06:00 - [10] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @OP Good idea, IDK about the TMs you have proposed, but overall I like the idea. As far as server segregation is concerned, IDK that it would be much of a problem. If the RNG is still determining what sec status the systems we're battling in are (by determining the systems we battle in), it would just force people to have different sets of fits for different systems. Yes, different fit for different systems. Very similar to plexing in FW. Novice rooms only allow for certain size and type hulls. It is also similar to the over all security status limits in EVE. Every ship can't go everywhere. There are restrictions on ships and weapons in high sec and low sec.

Akin69 Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.13 02:13:00 - [11] - Quote Great ideas good read Something must happen. Game is on life support at this point.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 597	Posted - 2013.07.13 02:54:00 - [12] - Quote Akin69 wrote: Great ideas good read Something must happen. Game is on life support at this point. I am hoping we are in physical therapy and not on life support. I like to think we are just learning walk again.
itsmellslikefish DIOS X. II Top Men. 117	Posted - 2013.07.13 03:10:00 - [13] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: The playerbase is already divided by server regions. Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again... How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive? The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with. Makeing it more expensive won't change much, itl just cause more rage. As explained in the recent pc devblog ccp expects players to play in accordance to a profit based system. I mean like people stop running protos when you would lose more than you make in a match, but players end up continue to play even if there not makeing a profit, they just want to win. I agree about the whole divison thing though.
DJINN Mr Lipton Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 5	Posted - 2013.07.13 03:17:00 - [14] - Quote What about a select able game mode were everyone can only choose from a list of premade fits that you do not have to buy but are kind of like starter fit that skills don't play a part in. Or maybe they can be paid for as you select them at spawn. All standard weapons, suits, equipment, vehicles, and modules. Of course there are way to many options to be able to fit every combination. Maybe just Caldari assaut, Gallente Scout, Amarr Heavy, and Minmatar Logi like the olden days. Leave out variations of weapons and only use basic equipment: nanohives, repair tools, needles and uplinks. For example: Assault AR AV Nanohive Assault AR Locus Nanohive Assault MD________ Assault MD_________ Assaut Swarms__________ Heavy Fg___________ Heavy HMG____________ Scout shotgun_________ Scout sniper__________ Logi MD_________ Logi AR__________ and so forth Maybe 20-30 separate fittings for a mode where every combination wont be covered, but you would have to take the drawbacks and advantages of the select able premade fittings. It could create a game mode where player skill trumps sp and gear, and offers new players an even battle ground to try out 20-30 different options without sinking their sp into stuff while trying out a fair variety of different setups other than the 4 available to all players in every other match. I dunno, just off the top of my head. Could be impossible for developers to do easily, would rather them fix what is already not working.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 599	Posted - 2013.07.13 03:25:00 - [15] - Quote I think pre determined fittings would hurt more than they would help. Part of New Eden is choices and only allowing a certain weapon on a certain suit wouldn't help us. Players need to choose their fits, I personally think segregation like I outlined is not very fun but because we are not allowed to choose where we go to fight I think being able to choose the difficulty is the next best thing.
DJINN Mr Lipton Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 5	Posted - 2013.07.13 03:42:00 - [16] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I think pre determined fittings would hurt more than they would help. Part of New Eden is choices and only allowing a certain weapon on a certain suit wouldn't help us. Players need to choose their fits, I personally think segregation like I outlined is not very fun but because we are not allowed to choose where we go to fight I think being able to choose the difficulty is the next best thing. Sure that would make sense to someone with experience in the eve universe, but wouldn't that just confuse newer players more than it would help them? The game mode I proposed could take the place of the academy, but after reaching a certain amount of WP or SP having the other modes available without the replacement going away. right now, the academy is supposed to be only for new players where they can only learn from each other. If it was replaced by one where everyone playing it was forced to use gear of all the same level new people could learn from experienced players with out being completely destroyed by better gear. It could even be single entry only where only team chat is an option. The player pool may not be populated enough to have a variety of difficulties.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 669	Posted - 2013.07.19 10:36:00 - [17] - Quote Shameless plug
Thang Bausch Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:07:00 - [18] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The playerbase is already divided by server regions. Any further division and you'll be playing against the same people again... and again... How about we simply restrict the ability to use advanced -> prototype gear by making it more expensive? The playerbase doesn't have to be divided because even the vets will see the glaring unsustainability of running super expensive gear all day, and simply downgrade to a level which newbies can compete with. You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play? They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people. Without a large player base matchmaking cannot work. People start the game and get totally owned for a few days and never com back. As soon as a newer player finds a corp and runs in a squad all the match making metrics in the world will not help them if there is only 3000 players to choose from. Too few players messes the data up because the people who are sticking with it are higher level players and they are destroying noobs. With a segregated system the top level players would have to use lower tier gear to fight against full noobs. I not saying stop lower level fit from coming into high level games just stop the pub stomps that happen because of high level gear. Could not agree more. Just some basic filters that let noobs choose the level of player they go against. I would be fine with just two settings: no proto gear allowed; and no perm squads. I can usually tell if my team will win by looking at the player list before the battle and seeing if either team have more than 2 players from the same corp. if one side has players from the same corp and the other doesn't, the side with always wins. I've been watching it for the last two weeks and it has literally been close to 100% accurate indicator. The filter gets around the low player base problems and still allows vets to join and stomp to some degree since they will have better skill trees and be more skilled at playing. The number of 45 to 0 ambushes would drop drastically if not disappear altogether..
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 680	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:35:00 - [19] - Quote I am not a top player and I play logi because I can't shoot. Knowing what my people can do and being able to compete because the the gear is similar and tactics, teamwork and personal skill mean something. I don't run proto suits so people who do are a challenge for me. I would like to be able to play people who are closer to my gear level because I do good enough but by no means am I the top. I would still venture out to more difficult systems with squads or just because I'm cocky that day but let me hop on a play for 20 minutes on a level I can actually play at.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5325	Posted - 2013.07.20 16:43:00 - [20] - Quote The fitting screen is already a mess, if I had to optimize fits for each and every different security status......I'd take a minute to respawn each time >_< Gear based segregation will only work in Arena's, where it belongs.

The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 680	Posted - 2013.07.20 21:54:00 - [21] - Quote Segregation does suck but it is needed to allow players to play. There is still a random button for null battles but we need something that gives players like me a chance. I have about 6 different suit fits I use and most of them would fit into one kind of battle because they are similar. Nothing is stopping lower meta gear from going into higher battles , it just stops stomping by better gear. The point is that players need a place to where they are not raped by some dude who is pushing full proto gear.
R F Gyro L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 443	Posted - 2013.07.20 22:14:00 - [22] - Quote Different battle rules for different sec status levels is a great idea; I suggested something similar a while back.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 999	Posted - 2013.07.23 01:54:00 - [23] - Quote I was trying to do something that lets SP and fit choices along with player skill be more important than the level of gear and allow for growth within the level.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1354	Posted - 2013.09.28 15:20:00 - [24] - Quote I still believe that most of this stuff solves itself when they get team deploy in FW. I would only enter ambush mode in pubs to mash out some quick games if I'm not able to play very long. I will spent 90% of my time in FW. Pubs should be noob friendly in skirmish and domination modes
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 999	Posted - 2013.09.28 17:49:00 - [25] - Quote Team deploy will help some but we need to be able to try new gear against similarly powered items. We wouldn't need a test area if you know you can go to a 1.0 system a get a fight with basic only gear. It also give low SP players a chance to progress and still feel like they can compete. New players should be able to go anywhere a vet can and do something. A good player doesn't need prototype gear to be effective.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 982	Posted - 2013.09.28 18:58:00 - [26] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: You really think expense will matter when EVE comes into play? They're working on tracking more metrics on players so that the matchmaking system has more data to put people together with, which is the only real way to solve the issue without permanently segregating people. If nothing changes now, the problem will be even worse. The obvious solution would be to further increase prices when EVE ISK floods into DUST. It can't work - this was tried in EVE repeatedly, culminating with trying to balance supercaps with ISK. The result was an epic fail. Balancing with ISK in New Eden will never work - it's not an opinion or a theory, but a substantially validated collective experience of hundreds of thousands of players and devs. If you want to kill a week reading, search the EVE forums for 'balance with ISK'.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1488	Posted - 2013.09.28 19:07:00 - [27] - Quote Similar concept, but I'd like people to "earn" the right to play in higher risk/reward matches. With the proto-stompers able to qualify for big bucks they'd then self-segregate. 1) Beginner -- fight other beginners for minimal rewards using free militia fits to learn the basics. 2) Live Fire -- general combat mode. 3) Veterans -- qualify to participate in high risk/reward combat. I realize low player numbers mixed with game modes can cause problems but letting people move themselves up, or take a break and drop down, seems a lot more fun that forcing people to accept game imposed rules.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1001	Posted - 2013.09.30 10:21:00 - [28] - Quote Yes. Being able to try out a new weapon or fight with a new player and not worry about getting rolled would be nice also. Most players know what their level is and would move to that difficulty. I would love to see something like this and it would give us a little more control over our experience.
The Robot Devil molon labe. RISE of LEGION 1046	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:45:00 - [29] - Quote Bump
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 222	Posted - 2013.10.17 00:49:00 - [30] - Quote Umm. NO I spent millions of SP into my proto suits, and proto weapons, and I gotta know, what in anyone's right mind would lead them to thinking that I shouldn't be able to use my gear without restrictions. edit: Read a little more on your posts Actually being able to select the difficulty is kinda nice, but what if I bring a basic Mass Driver, but also have proficiency lvl 5? Then I'd do slightly more damage than it's proto variant, the Freedom Mass Driver



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