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Rinzler XVII
Forsaken Immortals
0
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Posted - 2013.07.08 14:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You are changing everything because CCP screwed up and in turn you are ******* up vehicle pilots
CCP changed the skills and took away extra HP from vehicle pilots and gave it to everyone, that means the average tryhard AR scrub now has access to a milita LAV with more health because CCP took that away from vehicle pilots thus the LAV can stand up to more even tho they have no skills invested into vehicles
If you take away the extra health that all vehicles got (dropships excluded) and give vehicle pilots the skills back to add 5% more shield/armor per level then the problem solves itself because how many tryhard AR scrubs are going to skill them up so they can murder taxi ppl? not many will actually do this
Add in WP for logi vehicles and they might actually get used for logi
You are wrong, you are doing this the wrong way around, this problem of murder taxis never came around until CCP took the skills off of vehicle pilots and added the extra HP to all vehicles (dropships excluded) which made milita aka free LAV strong as **** All I'm getting is you want OP LAVs for people that spec'd into them. Again 10 Million SP in Shields and Caldari Vehicles, I think it's safe to say I've spec'd into Vehicles and I'm telling you this would be something to deter running people over constantly.
He seems to only want to use a LAV as a murder taxi rather than the actual purpose it was designed for ... |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red STar. EoN.
624
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Posted - 2013.07.08 14:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Rinzler XVII wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You are changing everything because CCP screwed up and in turn you are ******* up vehicle pilots
CCP changed the skills and took away extra HP from vehicle pilots and gave it to everyone, that means the average tryhard AR scrub now has access to a milita LAV with more health because CCP took that away from vehicle pilots thus the LAV can stand up to more even tho they have no skills invested into vehicles
If you take away the extra health that all vehicles got (dropships excluded) and give vehicle pilots the skills back to add 5% more shield/armor per level then the problem solves itself because how many tryhard AR scrubs are going to skill them up so they can murder taxi ppl? not many will actually do this
Add in WP for logi vehicles and they might actually get used for logi
You are wrong, you are doing this the wrong way around, this problem of murder taxis never came around until CCP took the skills off of vehicle pilots and added the extra HP to all vehicles (dropships excluded) which made milita aka free LAV strong as **** All I'm getting is you want OP LAVs for people that spec'd into them. Again 10 Million SP in Shields and Caldari Vehicles, I think it's safe to say I've spec'd into Vehicles and I'm telling you this would be something to deter running people over constantly. He seems to only want to use a LAV as a murder taxi rather than the actual purpose it was designed for ...
Seems like you and OP have something in common
Only reading what you want to and ignoring the rest |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4649
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Posted - 2013.07.08 14:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
How anyone can look at LAVs right now and think they're working as intended.....
smh |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
2317
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Posted - 2013.07.08 14:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
I actually agree with this, it would lessen murder taxi spam, ensure lav's dont become the near useless thongs they were on chromosome (some fits like bojos attack methana were ridiculously effective and great fun, got neutered because of the of beef though). It would also make murder taxi'ing much more challenging as now you would have to pick your targets carefully.
This mechanic shouldn't affect tanks though, the argument that an LAV hitting an armoured body at high speed woud impart sone energy makes some sense but when we're talking about a mobile limp of shield and armour weighing several tonnes that argument is ridiculous. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
72
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Posted - 2013.07.08 15:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Nope
If i hit you with a HAV thats no damage to me
If i hit you with a LAV thats no damage to me
Why would hitting a heavy cause 1k of damage to me? its makes no sense, where is the reason? dont say real life either i dont care if ppl survive a 60mph car hitting them this is the future where my LAV is made out of carbon fibre or maybe even stronger materials while surrounded by a damn shield and proberly powered by a mini fusion reactor and you are a walking goobag compared to it A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human. The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit. LAV should get nerfed anyways They took the 5% per level armor/shield hp off of vehicle drivers and just added it to all vehicles (dropships excluded) If that never happened and we still have the 5% shield/armor added per level then LAVs would have never bothered ppl except for those who are actually skilled into vehicles thus they get the added advantage of running ppl over The problem has never been about the LAVs The problem is CCP moving skills away from vehicle drivers then making it up by adding the hp to all vehicles (dropships excluded) Dropsuits get these skills but once again vehicle users do not I pointed this out but nobody would ******* listen. @ Jason: WTF? When did I become a random? I'm pretty sure I'm not a random. And no the hell it won't. You already get stopped in your tracks half the time from hitting people (I use my LLV's as getaway cars for scouts, and people is always in my way). And I've already gotten heavy roadblocked several times now, and a lot of the time, it damages me. Now, read the letter. You're a bare random, deal with it ^_^ I've been stopped only a few times from a glitching body remaining in my LLAV for a moment, I am rarely get stopped. Buddy I don't think you get it, I am in a LAV every match, You might use it as a getaway car but I use it as a killing machine, read your own damn letter ^_^
Getaway car- 2 scouts ninja hack some objectives in close poxy, then when it gets hot, i go in and pick them up, and drive off. Rep them if needed, and then drive them close back to the obj's.Plus, I've been playing for most of the beta (was late getting into it. Got the first round of beta keys though). I'm not a random; you are. Oh, and your a **** DS pilot btw. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1778
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Posted - 2013.07.08 15:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human.
The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit.
LAV should get nerfed anyways They took the 5% per level armor/shield hp off of vehicle drivers and just added it to all vehicles (dropships excluded) If that never happened and we still have the 5% shield/armor added per level then LAVs would have never bothered ppl except for those who are actually skilled into vehicles thus they get the added advantage of running ppl over The problem has never been about the LAVs The problem is CCP moving skills away from vehicle drivers then making it up by adding the hp to all vehicles (dropships excluded) Dropsuits get these skills but once again vehicle users do not I pointed this out but nobody would ******* listen. @ Jason: WTF? When did I become a random? I'm pretty sure I'm not a random. And no the hell it won't. You already get stopped in your tracks half the time from hitting people (I use my LLV's as getaway cars for scouts, and people is always in my way). And I've already gotten heavy roadblocked several times now, and a lot of the time, it damages me. Now, read the letter. You're a bare random, deal with it ^_^ I've been stopped only a few times from a glitching body remaining in my LLAV for a moment, I am rarely get stopped. Buddy I don't think you get it, I am in a LAV every match, You might use it as a getaway car but I use it as a killing machine, read your own damn letter ^_^ Getaway car- 2 scouts ninja hack some objectives in close poxy, then when it gets hot, i go in and pick them up, and drive off. Rep them if needed, and then drive them close back to the obj's.Plus, I've been playing for most of the beta (was late getting into it. Got the first round of beta keys though). I'm not a random; you are. Oh, and your a **** DS pilot btw.
Bare random with bad tactics. Primarily Tanker, Secondary LAV Driver and tertiary Dropship Pilot, so idgaf.
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Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
72
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Posted - 2013.07.08 15:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Anyways, I (like I have said several times now) have had people stand in my way as I was driving through, literally jumping in my way, stopping me in my tracks, and then causing me to die by some hidden AV force. It will be even worse if this is put in. You guys are not thinking. You're just being butthurt. |
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
229
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Posted - 2013.07.08 15:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
All of this LAV debate will end with the introduction of speeders and removal of free MLT LAV.
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Vitoka79 from SVK
ZionTCD
54
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Posted - 2013.07.08 15:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think LAVs should take some small impact damag,but not 1000hp from a heavy.Lets say 100(light suit),200(medium) and 400(heavy).And the other problem is the increased turn speed of the LAVs that came after the 1.1 update.They can make a U-turn in no time.Something needs to be changed because this is just pure madnes. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
22
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Posted - 2013.07.08 16:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:I made a thread previously on Feedback/Requests but it seems to me not many people visit that section.
I want to talk about the damage vehicles take on impact of Dropsuits, which I believe would balance out any problems with murder taxis very quickly but still allows them to be functional. Before I go on, I have around 10 million skill points in Caldari Vehicles, I can use every single Caldari Vehicle. When I'm not in a Vehicle I'm running as a Heavy with a Prototype Forge.
On the Vehicle side, I can easily roll around in a LAV hitting plenty of people with no issues, If I hit a place where the team is spawning, I can, in theory, kill the entire team instantly. My regular score with the LLAV is around 13/0 with a max of 40 kills and max of 3 deaths.
As a Forge Gunner, I am regularly hit by LAVs, and while I am able to kill them, it can be quite infuriating.
Back to the main point of this thread though, I believe that Vehicles should take damage based on what kind of suit it hits. We have three levels of suit, Light, Medium and Heavy, when a player is crushed against a wall by a tank, landed on by a dropship or just hit by an LAV, their suit type and other variables should effect how much damage the vehicle takes.
So, if a group of four Heavy suits have a collective damage of around 3000 HP, and a Militia LAV hits all four of them, boom. This creates new ways of AV taking on Vehicles, because drivers will not be wanting to run over others if they know they're low on HP, meaning a Tight Squad of Heavies could make for a very good deterrent without firing a single shot.
I remember someone said they disliked the idea because AVers could just surround a vehicle and destroy it without firing shots and to that I say yes, they won't need to because you were stupid enough to get yourself caught up in a trap and as consequence, you're going to die.
Anyways, I'd like to hear as many thoughts on the topic as possible, from both sides of the fence. car+speed=death sorry i couldnt resist . but to be honest if i see you you have to options. take cover are get squished |
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Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
22
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Posted - 2013.07.08 16:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:I made a thread previously on Feedback/Requests but it seems to me not many people visit that section.
I want to talk about the damage vehicles take on impact of Dropsuits, which I believe would balance out any problems with murder taxis very quickly but still allows them to be functional. Before I go on, I have around 10 million skill points in Caldari Vehicles, I can use every single Caldari Vehicle. When I'm not in a Vehicle I'm running as a Heavy with a Prototype Forge.
On the Vehicle side, I can easily roll around in a LAV hitting plenty of people with no issues, If I hit a place where the team is spawning, I can, in theory, kill the entire team instantly. My regular score with the LLAV is around 13/0 with a max of 40 kills and max of 3 deaths.
As a Forge Gunner, I am regularly hit by LAVs, and while I am able to kill them, it can be quite infuriating.
Back to the main point of this thread though, I believe that Vehicles should take damage based on what kind of suit it hits. We have three levels of suit, Light, Medium and Heavy, when a player is crushed against a wall by a tank, landed on by a dropship or just hit by an LAV, their suit type and other variables should effect how much damage the vehicle takes.
So, if a group of four Heavy suits have a collective damage of around 3000 HP, and a Militia LAV hits all four of them, boom. This creates new ways of AV taking on Vehicles, because drivers will not be wanting to run over others if they know they're low on HP, meaning a Tight Squad of Heavies could make for a very good deterrent without firing a single shot.
I remember someone said they disliked the idea because AVers could just surround a vehicle and destroy it without firing shots and to that I say yes, they won't need to because you were stupid enough to get yourself caught up in a trap and as consequence, you're going to die.
Anyways, I'd like to hear as many thoughts on the topic as possible, from both sides of the fence. car+speed=death sorry i couldnt resist . but to be honest if i see you.....you have two options. take cover are get squished
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General Erick
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
50
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Posted - 2013.07.08 16:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
I agree with OP to the point of LAV's should take damage based on the suit size. I see the LAV as a size similar to a small, 4-door car. When it hits a 150ish pound person, the bumper is bent and the windshield is smashed. 1-Ton+ Bull Moose vs. previously mentioned car results in a decimated car and dead driver/passengers. The heavy suit has to weigh around 500 pounds and should do damage. Velocity should be part of the equation because if a car hits you a 5mph, it will mostly push you out of the way. HAV's should take no 'Murdertaxi' damage because they are slow enough to avoid and have heavy armor. Classic F=MV equation if you ask me. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
155
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Posted - 2013.07.08 16:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
I much prefer addressing the roadkill issues directly than by nerfing HP or removing the free militia LAV. The militia LAV is fun, free, you can forget about it when you're done, and its easily destroyed.
TL;DR: keep militia LAVs in, add entrance/exit animations, make LAVs take heavy damage when roadkilling people, and LLAVs take significant damage when doing so. Preferably having actual physics-based damage.
The core issues are:
Roadkilling/impact damage - infantry die too easily, LAV does not slow down or take noticeable damage. This is stupid gameplay and immersion-breaking. Solution: make physics better so vehicle is affected by impact, reduce damage to infantry for lighter impacts. Vehicle should take damage relative to the physics of the collision, not necessarily pure HP. For example, if you hit a medium suit with sufficient force to kill it, you should take some damage, but if you hit a medium suit at max speed, the vehicle should take even more damage. Some placeholder mass values can be based on light/medium/heavy, but it shouldn't be based on max or current HP.
instant enter/exit/switch - manage to dodge that LAV that has your name on it? Too bad, now you have no cover and are face-to-face with a HMG. Or even worse, after giving up on running you over, the driver goes out 20m and teleports to the blaster turret. Really, instant switches are not good, they're a bit immersion-breaking and lead to bad gameplay.
LLAV aka the unkillable roadrage banana. As the OP said, these do not die. However some had some concerns that a base nerf to survivability would discourage the intended use of these as infantry support. I would counter that this is absurd, no one has ever used a LLAV for infantry support, it has only ever been used to run people over. These are expensive cars though, not the kind to leave the keys in when you hack a null cannon. I think they need a role. They should be able to run people down and shrug off the damage, however they should take significant enough damage that they become a bit vulnerable to av nades and swarms when doing so (unlike now when those things just tickle) |
Taczka Padliny
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1
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Posted - 2013.07.09 08:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:
LLAV aka the unkillable roadrage banana. As the OP said, these do not die. However some had some concerns that a base nerf to survivability would discourage the intended use of these as infantry support. I would counter that this is absurd, no one has ever used a LLAV for infantry support, it has only ever been used to run people over. These are expensive cars though, not the kind to leave the keys in when you hack a null cannon. I think they need a role. They should be able to run people down and shrug off the damage, however they should take significant enough damage that they become a bit vulnerable to av nades and swarms when doing so (unlike now when those things just tickle)
QFT
Never ever have i seen a llav used as infantry support, exclufing equipment familiarization excersises. So much more efficient at road pizza generating. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
82
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Posted - 2013.07.09 08:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
Taczka Padliny wrote:Oso Peresoso wrote:
LLAV aka the unkillable roadrage banana. As the OP said, these do not die. However some had some concerns that a base nerf to survivability would discourage the intended use of these as infantry support. I would counter that this is absurd, no one has ever used a LLAV for infantry support, it has only ever been used to run people over. These are expensive cars though, not the kind to leave the keys in when you hack a null cannon. I think they need a role. They should be able to run people down and shrug off the damage, however they should take significant enough damage that they become a bit vulnerable to av nades and swarms when doing so (unlike now when those things just tickle)
QFT Never ever have i seen a llav used as infantry support, exclufing equipment familiarization excersises. So much more efficient at road pizza generating.
I'm one of like 5 people that uses it as infantry support I guess. |
Void Echo
Internal Error. League of Infamy
395
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Posted - 2013.07.09 08:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
the murder taxis need to stop some how, the fact that everyone can use the militia lav is bad enough, I honestly do use them when im not taking this game seriously and I don't want to lose 2 million isk for randomly driving into a giant red blob on the map |
Shattered Mirage
Enclave Training Ground
0
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Posted - 2013.07.09 10:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:the murder taxis need to stop some how, the fact that everyone can use the militia lav is bad enough, I honestly do use them when im not taking this game seriously andI don't want to lose 2 million isk for randomly driving into a giant red blob on the map
Void Echo wrote:the fact that everyone can use the militia lav is bad enough
What do you use when you don't have enough ISK to buy anything you skilled into, such as prototype, advance, standard, whatever, Amarr Scrambler Rifles or, dropsuits? Militia Gear.
Why? because they're cheap; and I admit, its a little to good for being the cheapest (And therefore, typically the worst) vehicle/equipment available.
People usually earn ~260,000 ISK after doing the best on their team. On average you make ~150,000 per match. without boosters. Yeah... not enough to cover those three 500,000 ISK dropsuit fittings, no? (Just an example)
Some people don't feel like losing/risking upwards of 10,000,000 ISK per (Public) match. Especially the new players.
If you can afford to do that; the more power to you.
This is only one example that I've thought of at the moment; I'm sure others have more examples than me.
If you feel so strongly about this, invest in Swarm Launchers and/or A.V. Grenades
Advance and prototype anti-vehicle weaponry typically one shot kill militia vehicles (yes, even militia HAVs are destroyed after getting hit ~3 times with that); unless the person has a good fitting for that crap.... and on second thought, the proper skills. |
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