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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1763
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Posted - 2013.07.08 10:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I made a thread previously on Feedback/Requests but it seems to me not many people visit that section.
I want to talk about the damage vehicles take on impact of Dropsuits, which I believe would balance out any problems with murder taxis very quickly but still allows them to be functional. Before I go on, I have around 10 million skill points in Caldari Vehicles, I can use every single Caldari Vehicle. When I'm not in a Vehicle I'm running as a Heavy with a Prototype Forge.
On the Vehicle side, I can easily roll around in a LAV hitting plenty of people with no issues, If I hit a place where the team is spawning, I can, in theory, kill the entire team instantly. My regular score with the LLAV is around 13/0 with a max of 40 kills and max of 3 deaths.
As a Forge Gunner, I am regularly hit by LAVs, and while I am able to kill them, it can be quite infuriating.
Back to the main point of this thread though, I believe that Vehicles should take damage based on what kind of suit it hits. We have three levels of suit, Light, Medium and Heavy, when a player is crushed against a wall by a tank, landed on by a dropship or just hit by an LAV, their suit type and other variables should effect how much damage the vehicle takes.
So, if a group of four Heavy suits have a collective damage of around 3000 HP, and a Militia LAV hits all four of them, boom. This creates new ways of AV taking on Vehicles, because drivers will not be wanting to run over others if they know they're low on HP, meaning a Tight Squad of Heavies could make for a very good deterrent without firing a single shot.
I remember someone said they disliked the idea because AVers could just surround a vehicle and destroy it without firing shots and to that I say yes, they won't need to because you were stupid enough to get yourself caught up in a trap and as consequence, you're going to die.
Anyways, I'd like to hear as many thoughts on the topic as possible, from both sides of the fence. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1766
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Nope
If i hit you with a HAV thats no damage to me
If i hit you with a LAV thats no damage to me
Why would hitting a heavy cause 1k of damage to me? its makes no sense, where is the reason? dont say real life either i dont care if ppl survive a 60mph car hitting them this is the future where my LAV is made out of carbon fibre or maybe even stronger materials while surrounded by a damn shield and proberly powered by a mini fusion reactor and you are a walking goobag compared to it
A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human.
The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1768
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 10:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Ivan Avogadro wrote:Tanks aren't typically rolling people over for kills, but yes they should take damage for it too. You just rammed your vehicle into an object. Just because it was a human doesn't mean your car is magically immune. Any of the fixed objects in the game that you nudge cause damage to the truck, bullets cause damage to the truck, so you are the one being unreasonable when you say "why should it cause damage?" If it hits something or gets hit by something it gets hurt, unless it hits a player. Why that particular distinction? Maybe people will grief the taxi by throwing their bodies into it, but they'll be dead, you'll get the kill spam, and you can drive away until your shields recharge.
If the LLAV wants to go on a demolition derby, let them. Just put in a few hundred damage every suit, and the taxi driver will need to take a break now and then. All this would do is slow them down, but hopefully enough that people could scatter or fight back effectively. And there is no effective deterrent right now, don't even pretend there is or this play style would have fizzled out weeks ago. Instead it's just as prevalent in 1.2 as I was in 1.0. Anyways, there's a thing called AV, you might want to use them. NO really, they're actually effective against the lolav's.
Read the first part of my post. Am fully spec'd Vehicle Player and Proto Forge player (Primary Vehicles) and I'm telling you that LLAV doesn't die. Adding this would slow down the kills I make, and it would also make it so players would be likely to get more kills with their assault rifle rather than a Militia LAV. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1768
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Ivan Avogadro wrote:Tanks aren't typically rolling people over for kills, but yes they should take damage for it too. You just rammed your vehicle into an object. Just because it was a human doesn't mean your car is magically immune. Any of the fixed objects in the game that you nudge cause damage to the truck, bullets cause damage to the truck, so you are the one being unreasonable when you say "why should it cause damage?" If it hits something or gets hit by something it gets hurt, unless it hits a player. Why that particular distinction? Maybe people will grief the taxi by throwing their bodies into it, but they'll be dead, you'll get the kill spam, and you can drive away until your shields recharge.
If the LLAV wants to go on a demolition derby, let them. Just put in a few hundred damage every suit, and the taxi driver will need to take a break now and then. All this would do is slow them down, but hopefully enough that people could scatter or fight back effectively. And there is no effective deterrent right now, don't even pretend there is or this play style would have fizzled out weeks ago. Instead it's just as prevalent in 1.2 as I was in 1.0. Anyways, there's a thing called AV, you might want to use them. NO really, they're actually effective against the lolav's. Read the first part of my post. Am fully spec'd Vehicle Player and Proto Forge player (Primary Vehicles) and I'm telling you that LLAV doesn't die. Adding this would slow down the kills I make, and it would also make it so players would be likely to get more kills with their assault rifle rather than a Militia LAV. Since this apperant Murder tixi thing started, I've killed probably at least 200 LLV's. A lot more MLT LAV's, and about 100 STD LAV's. 0 SLAV's though  . Bottom line, all of you must be doing it wrong, but since you guys insist on thinking that they are OP, well I made a solution. ANd one that's a far better idea, and you complain that you wouldn't get kills fast enough with murder taxing. Definition of QQ. ' hands letter'. Peace, Aizen 
-Sigh- Of course, the bare random knows exactly whats up, even though I'm telling him my weapon of choice is too powerful, that I'm getting ridiculous amounts of kills despite going up against prototype weapons, soloing against NF/CRONOS/EON etc Squads that are working together to take me on.
You might find killing vehicles easy, and as the game progresses the balance will shift, I believe this function would actually help balancing Vehicles. LAVs are not my only address with this idea, A while ago we had some pretty good dropships, My kills came from flying through a crowd of people and hitting 3-4 of them at a time.
The problem with making LAVs/Dropships too strong is they can be used as a solo vehicle to crush people with ease, adding this allows us to make them stronger and still discourages using them to just run/land on people.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1769
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Nope
If i hit you with a HAV thats no damage to me
If i hit you with a LAV thats no damage to me
Why would hitting a heavy cause 1k of damage to me? its makes no sense, where is the reason? dont say real life either i dont care if ppl survive a 60mph car hitting them this is the future where my LAV is made out of carbon fibre or maybe even stronger materials while surrounded by a damn shield and proberly powered by a mini fusion reactor and you are a walking goobag compared to it A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human. The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit. LAV should get nerfed anyways They took the 5% per level armor/shield hp off of vehicle drivers and just added it to all vehicles (dropships excluded) If that never happened and we still have the 5% shield/armor added per level then LAVs would have never bothered ppl except for those who are actually skilled into vehicles thus they get the added advantage of running ppl over The problem has never been about the LAVs The problem is CCP moving skills away from vehicle drivers then making it up by adding the hp to all vehicles (dropships excluded) Dropsuits get these skills but once again vehicle users do not
No we got Resistances instead, which makes things easier.
LAVs shouldn't be "nerfed" anyways, because it's ridiculous. (Perhaps Militia, ONLY Militia), if you expect Logi LAV players to ever use them correctly, nerfing them so they're weaker means they're not going to waste 300k to help Infantry survive.
It really isn't a problem, this solution fixes the murder taxis BUT lets players use their Vehicles as their proper roles without being severely weakened.
Light Assault Vehicle - Light Vehicle used for assaulting and getting around. (Nerf it and it becomes a insta death coffin for anyone driving it)
Scout Light Assault Vehicle - Light Recon Vehicle (Needs additional built in Modules, it's too weak)
Logistics Light Assault Vehicle - Light Vehicle used as support (Nerf it and nobody will use it to support Infantry or Vehicles)
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1769
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Nope
If i hit you with a HAV thats no damage to me
If i hit you with a LAV thats no damage to me
Why would hitting a heavy cause 1k of damage to me? its makes no sense, where is the reason? dont say real life either i dont care if ppl survive a 60mph car hitting them this is the future where my LAV is made out of carbon fibre or maybe even stronger materials while surrounded by a damn shield and proberly powered by a mini fusion reactor and you are a walking goobag compared to it A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human. The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit. LAV should get nerfed anyways They took the 5% per level armor/shield hp off of vehicle drivers and just added it to all vehicles (dropships excluded) If that never happened and we still have the 5% shield/armor added per level then LAVs would have never bothered ppl except for those who are actually skilled into vehicles thus they get the added advantage of running ppl over The problem has never been about the LAVs The problem is CCP moving skills away from vehicle drivers then making it up by adding the hp to all vehicles (dropships excluded) Dropsuits get these skills but once again vehicle users do not I pointed this out but nobody would ******* listen. @ Jason: WTF? When did I become a random? I'm pretty sure I'm not a random. And no the hell it won't. You already get stopped in your tracks half the time from hitting people (I use my LLV's as getaway cars for scouts, and people is always in my way). And I've already gotten heavy roadblocked several times now, and a lot of the time, it damages me. Now, read the letter.
You're a bare random, deal with it ^_^
I've been stopped only a few times from a glitching body remaining in my LLAV for a moment, I am rarely get stopped. Buddy I don't think you get it, I am in a LAV every match, You might use it as a getaway car but I use it as a killing machine, read your own damn letter ^_^ |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1776
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 13:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:You are changing everything because CCP screwed up and in turn you are ******* up vehicle pilots
CCP changed the skills and took away extra HP from vehicle pilots and gave it to everyone, that means the average tryhard AR scrub now has access to a milita LAV with more health because CCP took that away from vehicle pilots thus the LAV can stand up to more even tho they have no skills invested into vehicles
If you take away the extra health that all vehicles got (dropships excluded) and give vehicle pilots the skills back to add 5% more shield/armor per level then the problem solves itself because how many tryhard AR scrubs are going to skill them up so they can murder taxi ppl? not many will actually do this
Add in WP for logi vehicles and they might actually get used for logi
You are wrong, you are doing this the wrong way around, this problem of murder taxis never came around until CCP took the skills off of vehicle pilots and added the extra HP to all vehicles (dropships excluded) which made milita aka free LAV strong as ****
All I'm getting is you want OP LAVs for people that spec'd into them.
Again 10 Million SP in Shields and Caldari Vehicles, I think it's safe to say I've spec'd into Vehicles and I'm telling you this would be something to deter running people over constantly.
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1778
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 15:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
A Heavy Suit is described as a Dropsuit capable of going toe to toe with Vehicles, the suits we're in are not made of soft materials that we just slip into, they're simply put, power armor. You're crashing into something very strong like it is just a normal human.
The reasoning overall, is balance. IF LAVs get nerfed, they're going to be far too weak to be useful, but adding this means you won't be able to run over people constantly, there still will be some but it will require patience and a bit more skill judging what you're going to hit.
LAV should get nerfed anyways They took the 5% per level armor/shield hp off of vehicle drivers and just added it to all vehicles (dropships excluded) If that never happened and we still have the 5% shield/armor added per level then LAVs would have never bothered ppl except for those who are actually skilled into vehicles thus they get the added advantage of running ppl over The problem has never been about the LAVs The problem is CCP moving skills away from vehicle drivers then making it up by adding the hp to all vehicles (dropships excluded) Dropsuits get these skills but once again vehicle users do not I pointed this out but nobody would ******* listen. @ Jason: WTF? When did I become a random? I'm pretty sure I'm not a random. And no the hell it won't. You already get stopped in your tracks half the time from hitting people (I use my LLV's as getaway cars for scouts, and people is always in my way). And I've already gotten heavy roadblocked several times now, and a lot of the time, it damages me. Now, read the letter. You're a bare random, deal with it ^_^ I've been stopped only a few times from a glitching body remaining in my LLAV for a moment, I am rarely get stopped. Buddy I don't think you get it, I am in a LAV every match, You might use it as a getaway car but I use it as a killing machine, read your own damn letter ^_^ Getaway car- 2 scouts ninja hack some objectives in close poxy, then when it gets hot, i go in and pick them up, and drive off. Rep them if needed, and then drive them close back to the obj's.Plus, I've been playing for most of the beta (was late getting into it. Got the first round of beta keys though). I'm not a random; you are. Oh, and your a **** DS pilot btw.
Bare random with bad tactics.
Primarily Tanker, Secondary LAV Driver and tertiary Dropship Pilot, so idgaf.
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