DUST Search - Is CCP working on balancing the AV vs. Vehicles yet?

Purona wrote:

Skyhound Solbrave wrote:

On that unofficial roadmap post, a dev said that they are working on vehicles and AV, theyre balancing the two together to even out their cost and damage.

That being said, maybe you should learn how to fit your tank. Even with proto gear, a properly fit tank is hard to pop.

swarm launcher 330 per missile

proto swarm launcher 330*6=1980 per shot

i think swarm launchers get like 1.2 bonus against armor tanks

one swarm does 2376 without damage mods

with 3 10% damage mods equals .27 percent increase in damage

one swarm will do 3017

my tank can with all modules on can reduce damage by .62

meaning each swarm is doing 1146 damage

it would take my armor repairer 3 seconds to outdo that damage

now this is just one person with one proto swarm launcher and damage mods who hasn't put skills into swarm launcher proficiency which would grant him an additional .15% damage

swarm launchers have a 1.7 second lock on time which is roughtly the interval between the 3 shots hitting the tank

over 6 seconds a swarm launcher would do 3438 damage to my tank and ill heal for 1248

meaning in 6 seconds he out damaged my repair module and resistances by 2196 damage

and this is just one person on a team of 16 with maybe 1 million sp into swarm launchers another skill that benefits any other weapon he wants

meanwhile you have people who spend millions of sp and isk on tanks and its not enough

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GOD HERE Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:39:00 - [1] - Quote How can you expect new players to want to get involved into Derpships and HAVs with the ridiculous amounts of proto type AV out there? Are there any plans for Prototype Derpships or Tanks yet? Or how about a price reduction on vehicles? Or should I just plan on skilling into the core flaylock instead?
CuuCH Crusher Commando Perkone Caldari State 77	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote You need to purchase a better tank. If you're running around with militia tanks or no mods, expect to get blown up. I'm on the forge gun side, and can tell you it is hard for us to take down a super tank with stacked mods. (It the pilot knows what they are doing) If you want to camp the tank in the middle of the map farming kills, you came to the wrong place. HTFU As for dropships, I wouldn't know. I don't even waste my ammo on them because most of the DS pilots bail out and I never get the kill.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 605	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:47:00 - [3] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183 11 pages and no CCP Blam dev post I would say no its not happening they are too busy making AA HAVs to shoot down all the dropships which are up in the sky atm
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2175	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:51:00 - [4] - Quote Unlike the above posters I have hope, if the new deflection mod on the saga II is any indication of what's in the pipeline for vehicles things should get a lot better and far more interesting. As for CCP blam he's based out of shanghai, so there's the whole time zone issue, add on the fact probably very busy with his work, and well his posts are rare. The last time I saw him post was months ago but he gave some great hints of what's in the pipeline.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2526	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:18:00 - [5] - Quote lol... balance in DUST...good one
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 608	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:39:00 - [6] - Quote No. Vehicles have remained unchanged since the beginning of closed BETA testing and are working as intended.
Xender17 Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 204	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:55:00 - [7] - Quote I just want to be able to main my tank. I don't care how much it does. I just want it to be affordable enough so I can use it like infantry use suits.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 222	Posted - 2013.07.05 21:58:00 - [8] - Quote GOD HERE wrote: How can you expect new players to want to get involved into Derpships and HAVs with the ridiculous amounts of proto type AV out there? Are there any plans for Prototype Derpships or Tanks yet? Or how about a price reduction on vehicles? Or should I just plan on skilling into the core flaylock instead? New players shouldnt spec into vehicles period because they are useless. Lol tankers in Dust
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 344	Posted - 2013.07.05 22:00:00 - [9] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: No. Vehicles have remained unchanged since the beginning of closed BETA testing and are working as intended. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's a good one
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 344	Posted - 2013.07.05 22:00:00 - [10] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: GOD HERE wrote: How can you expect new players to want to get involved into Derpships and HAVs with the ridiculous amounts of proto type AV out there? Are there any plans for Prototype Derpships or Tanks yet? Or how about a price reduction on vehicles? Or should I just plan on skilling into the core flaylock instead? New players shouldnt spec into vehicles period because they are useless. Lol tankers in Dust say that to my rail cannon
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 222	Posted - 2013.07.05 22:07:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: GOD HERE wrote: How can you expect new players to want to get involved into Derpships and HAVs with the ridiculous amounts of proto type AV out there? Are there any plans for Prototype Derpships or Tanks yet? Or how about a price reduction on vehicles? Or should I just plan on skilling into the core flaylock instead? New players shouldnt spec into vehicles period because they are useless. Lol tankers in Dust say that to my rail cannon I cant hear you all the way back hiding in your redline. Leave that spot and you get nuked in seconds.
Mobias Wyvern Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.06 00:31:00 - [12] - Quote Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2166	Posted - 2013.07.06 01:00:00 - [13] - Quote Mobias Wyvern wrote: Be your own Judge. What game looks like more fun to you? Dust.........Or this......... Planetside 2 Coming to PS4 this year 1080p Ultra settings at Night Intense Open Field Battle 100 Man Infantry Objective Push Desert Infantry Line Huge Desert Tank Battle 100 Tank Convoy 150 man Air Raid 65/0 Kill streak in the air NC Montage Planetside 2 Machinima Factions Explained Why you should Play Planetside 2 From Vets In the interest of presenting the full picture: The Enclave Leaves Planetside 2 After Months of No Fights and Broken Patches and Updates CEOPyrex on Supporting Dust 514
GOD HERE Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.07.06 13:54:00 - [14] - Quote Planet side 2 looks dumb, I am liking the depth that dust has over other FPS games, I've always liked vehicles too, but they just seem so paper thin, and I don't want to be like those noobs that sit in the safe zone with a rail gun. I guess I'll have to just play the waiting game and hope more sp helps my build
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 382	Posted - 2013.07.06 14:00:00 - [15] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: No. Vehicles have remained unchanged since the beginning of closed BETA testing and are working as intended. Can I have some of whay hes smoking my **** dosent seem to bend reality enough.
Sgt Buttscratch G I A N T EoN. 342	Posted - 2013.07.06 16:29:00 - [16] - Quote I do think some AV hits harder than it should, but tanking is YOUR problem, if you want to pull 500k-5million out in a public match, you better be willing to loose it. I run X amount of tanks, then go on a grace period where the money to run X amount of tanks needs to be remade. I actually fund my tanks using my logi gal also
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD 143	Posted - 2013.07.06 16:53:00 - [17] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183 11 pages and no CCP Blam dev post I would say no its not happening they are too busy making AA HAVs to shoot down all the dropships which are up in the sky atm hopefully they just make a gun, and not a whole chasis based on a limited role.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1924	Posted - 2013.07.06 17:25:00 - [18] - Quote AV being powerful isn't the only problem- Cost vs average loss is a problem Lack of AV WP is a problem (avoiding AV is a lose-lose situation; the pilot gets denied access to an area, while the AVer is denied WP) The only thing remotely close to vehicle countermeasures are afterburners Nanohives are currently what decides whether swarm launchers and AV grenades are overpowered, or a joke. Many AV skills are worthless Vehicle maneuvering is difficult to skill into
Skyhound Solbrave Rough Riders.. The Superpowers 136	Posted - 2013.07.06 17:35:00 - [19] - Quote On that unofficial roadmap post, a dev said that they are working on vehicles and AV, theyre balancing the two together to even out their cost and damage. That being said, maybe you should learn how to fit your tank. Even with proto gear, a properly fit tank is hard to pop.
Croned C0NTRA UNIT 59	Posted - 2013.07.06 17:38:00 - [20] - Quote Stop making up issues so that you have something to whine about. What do you expect to happen when proto AV meets militia tank? Just because the only thing someone is skilled into or can afford is a militia HAV, it doesn't mean they have to go around driving said HAV and get blown up. Those HAVs are meant for the academy. If you really want to be a tank driver, save up your SP and don't buy single tank until you can get one that stands a chance.
Nguruthos IX Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 687	Posted - 2013.07.06 17:39:00 - [21] - Quote No
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1924	Posted - 2013.07.06 18:01:00 - [22] - Quote Patoman Radiant wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183 11 pages and no CCP Blam dev post I would say no its not happening they are too busy making AA HAVs to shoot down all the dropships which are up in the sky atm hopefully they just make a gun, and not a whole chasis based on a limited role. They said it would be a whole new HAV. I believe it's meant to have higher tracking speed, possibly the ability to aim at a steeper angle (every good pilot knows that HAVs can't touch them if you take advantage of their max firing angle)
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 262	Posted - 2013.07.07 09:54:00 - [23] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183 11 pages and no CCP Blam dev post I would say no its not happening they are too busy making AA HAVs to shoot down all the dropships which are up in the sky atm roflmao. imma go make a troll post just for you. check feedbackrequests in a minute
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 45	Posted - 2013.07.07 11:11:00 - [24] - Quote Anyways, I went on IRC to ask this question, and they said nope. Shows that they don't give a **** about us......
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 96	Posted - 2013.07.07 11:23:00 - [25] - Quote Dust suffers from the same problem as Planetside 2 with their Infantry vs Armour balance. Because both are a class based game where you can flip to anti-armour during a match you have serious problems with scaleability, especially between disorganised matches and organised matches and between 1v1 vs 4v4 vs 16v16. In a disorganised pub-match you already have HAVs that are functionally unkillable by 2 guys with advanced launchers requiring these guys to upgrade all the way to proto to kill him. However, take that same tank into an organised match and he gets vaporised instantly due to concentrated fire from 4 guys with proto launchers. In fact that set of 4 guys can permanently deny the entire battlefield to any vehicle because all they need is a nanohive or supply depot. The Commando suit has actually exacerbated this problem by allowing people that 2-way AI & AV bet. So now what do you do? Do you give him an insane proto tank capable of surviving in that environment? If so, he's going to be completely unkillable in a pub-match, he just deploys his Proto-God-HAV and goes 50-0. There will simply never be enough AV on the field to kill him. The two guys who go AV will eventually get sick of dying and just let him farm and stay out of his way. You also can't solve this problem with ISK pricing because that doesn't help. The only way to really get to the basis of this problem is to revisit the entire AV ammo vs Vehicle HP/ repair mechanic. Vehicles repair too quickly for 1-2 opponents but don't have enough HP to survive lots of opponents. AV is too weak with 1 person but then scales too readily with numbers. How do you fix this? Not easy. You could try moving the vehicle dynamic to give them a lot more HP but a lot less regen and resistance so it becomes more about attrition. A tanker will simultaneously become more aggressive yet a lot more cautious if he knows he can survive a brief encounter easily but needs to stretch his HP over the match because its difficult to repair him. Then you adjust the AV dynamic by making missile ammo more complicated to come by for large numbers of people. Remove missiles from supply depots, missile only nanohives with long cooldowns, etc etc etc.
Purona The Vanguardians 15	Posted - 2013.07.09 13:46:00 - [26] - Quote Skyhound Solbrave wrote: On that unofficial roadmap post, a dev said that they are working on vehicles and AV, theyre balancing the two together to even out their cost and damage. That being said, maybe you should learn how to fit your tank. Even with proto gear, a properly fit tank is hard to pop. swarm launcher 330 per missile proto swarm launcher 330*6=1980 per shot i think swarm launchers get like 1.2 bonus against armor tanks one swarm does 2376 without damage mods with 3 10% damage mods equals .27 percent increase in damage one swarm will do 3017 my tank can with all modules on can reduce damage by .62 meaning each swarm is doing 1146 damage it would take my armor repairer 3 seconds to outdo that damage now this is just one person with one proto swarm launcher and damage mods who hasn't put skills into swarm launcher proficiency which would grant him an additional .15% damage swarm launchers have a 1.7 second lock on time which is roughtly the interval between the 3 shots hitting the tank over 6 seconds a swarm launcher would do 3438 damage to my tank and ill heal for 1248 meaning in 6 seconds he out damaged my repair module and resistances with 2196 damage and this is just one person on a team of 16 with maybe 1 million sp into swarm launchers another skill that benefits any other weapon he wants
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 914	Posted - 2013.07.09 13:53:00 - [27] - Quote Purona wrote: Skyhound Solbrave wrote: On that unofficial roadmap post, a dev said that they are working on vehicles and AV, theyre balancing the two together to even out their cost and damage. That being said, maybe you should learn how to fit your tank. Even with proto gear, a properly fit tank is hard to pop. swarm launcher 330 per missile proto swarm launcher 330*6=1980 per shot i think swarm launchers get like 1.2 bonus against armor tanks one swarm does 2376 without damage mods with 3 10% damage mods equals .27 percent increase in damage one swarm will do 3017 my tank can with all modules on can reduce damage by .62 meaning each swarm is doing 1146 damage it would take my armor repairer 3 seconds to outdo that damage now this is just one person with one proto swarm launcher and damage mods who hasn't put skills into swarm launcher proficiency which would grant him an additional .15% damage swarm launchers have a 1.7 second lock on time which is roughtly the interval between the 3 shots hitting the tank over 6 seconds a swarm launcher would do 3438 damage to my tank and ill heal for 1248 meaning in 6 seconds he out damaged my repair module and resistances by 2196 damage and this is just one person on a team of 16 with maybe 1 million sp into swarm launchers another skill that benefits any other weapon he wants meanwhile you have people who spend millions of sp and isk on tanks and its not enough Once again while crunching numbers people forget to factor in the delay between launching a swarm and being able to take another action be it reloading, throwing a grenade, switching weapons, or starting the lock on process again Add another 2.5 seconds to your calculations
Purona The Vanguardians 15	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:09:00 - [28] - Quote 1.7 lock on time + 2.5 second random time given by delta = 4.2 seconds round down to 8 seconds for easier work tank repairs for 414 per second over 8 seconds 3312 armor repaired 2 shots from swarm launcher over 8 seconds 2224 meaning i should be out repairing the swarm launcher by 1088 armor I can tell you right now. That the number you gave me is entirely too high. Between the time it takes to fire a swarm launcher, re lock and fire another swarm. Mostly because Ive had my repairs consistently overloaded by one person firing one proto swarm launcher either that or I messed up somewhere.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 915	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:15:00 - [29] - Quote Purona wrote: 1.7 lock on time + 2.5 second random time given by delta = 4.2 seconds round down to 8 seconds for easier work tank repairs for 414 per second over 8 seconds 3312 armor repaired 2 shots from swarm launcher over 8 seconds 2224 meaning i should be out repairing the swarm launcher by 1088 armor i can tell you right now that number you gave me is entirely too high between the time it takes to fire a swarm launcher re lock and fire another swarm because ive had my repairs consistently overloaded by one person firing his one one proto swarm launcher either that or i messed up somewhere Trust me its not and I might actually be low balling it, it could be an even 3 seconds If you are messing up Im betting its on missile flight times since any movement on the tanks part changes them so that the time between firing the swarm and it making contact can vary wildly which would definitely impact the DPS numbers you have
Purona The Vanguardians 15	Posted - 2013.07.09 14:25:00 - [30] - Quote i think it came from the amount of damage weapons do to certain areas of the tank which is messing me up

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