So, one of the major issues in this game, when it comes to IBs and also the new player experience. Is how powerful proto suits are in comparison to miltia/standard gear right?

Now if you look at weapons in this game, you'll notice the damage increase is relatively small... its only ~10% increase tier to tier. Almost everything else is the same, with the exception of a few items which have higher clip counts or blast radius (looking at you godlock).

Anyways... one thing you can notice really fast is how much more powerful a prototype suit is. With the extra module slots a prototype suit can easily reach up to 3x the EHP of a standard suit. Three times!! That kind of power is undeniable, and the power shift turns many games into gear > skill... which CCP has said is a principle they are trying to avoid. Yes higher level gear is better, and more expensive, but should it be to the point that you can just overwhelm your opponents with shear dps and ehp... regardless of your skill vs. their skill?

So... what would be an easy way to help balance dropsuits so that proto suits are still the best but they aren't overwhelmingly more powerful?

Really I think the solution is quite simple.

Normalize the number of slots for every tier of a race/class dropsuit. This means, a standard cal logi suit could also have 5H/4L, same as the proto cal logi suit.

standard and advanced suits would still be limited by CPU/PG requirements, and proto suits will be able to fit more, easier.. as they are designed to. But you could get standard and advanced suits much closer in power to prototype suits, right away.

I really think this will help the NPE experience a lot, and youll probably find many protobears will be happy to drop down to adv gear to save some cash if they can fit a build that is relatively close in power but much cheaper to run. Over time, i suspect IB will begin to normalize to advanced gear on its own, without enforcing hard coded restrictions.

Yes some people will run standard or prototype gear anyways, but that is their freedom of choice, and they will suffer the consequences accordingly, lower suit power or high suit cost respectively.

Thoughts?

Remnant... have you ever considered going this route? It will help close the power disparity that high SP players have vs newer, lower SP players.

So all suits have the same slot layout but the difference is the amount of CPU/PG?

Exactly... high CPU/PG lets you fit more modules. You can use CPU/PG upgrades to get you close, but you will, of course never be as powerful as a proto.

You'll be much closer in power though, instead of essentially being fodder to protobears that are 2-3 times more powerful than you are in a standard suit.

Uh... No. People with Core Skills, Engineering V, and Electronics V can dominate the field with a low cost. One of the main things for proto-gears is the cost of ISK and/or AUR. If they don't cost as much, what's to stop someone from buying 500 Proto-heavies? Just making a difference in CPU/PG would be OP, in a couple ways.

Oh, right! I was trying to think of the ways, and I knew there were more. Here's one. It takes LESS than 500k SP to get into Standard Medium/Light gear (Not the case for Heavies, unless you want to use ARs or anything other than a Heavy Weapon). That means that (Thanks to ISK Transfers and rich alts) someone can make a character, and INSTANTLY skill into the same-quality gear as Prototype.

Normally it'd take a couple games to make the ISK used for Skill Books.

I'm telling you, just try the Militia Shotgun; it works like a charm that works. There are ways to combat Protos without closing the skill gap; it's called tactics.

How about limiting what you can use where, just like they have in EVE. Take PROTO and higher out of Hisec, and let it rip in Lowsec and Nullsec. (Just to let you know you're not allowed to bring in most capital ships into hisec. I once saw a dred get owned because he jumped into hisec on accident. It was so funny )


Peace, Aizen

I could 1v1 a proto-heavy, no problem. I'm saying that for the newer players (Ones that have just downloaded the game...), it'll be a bit tough to deal with.

Also, I try not to sound like a huge arse, but this happens sometimes... Things will be OP, and things will be UP.

CCP is currently working on (Or should be working on...) a thing called "Perfect Imbalancing". This means some things are more powerful than other things, but those also have their weaknesses, and etc.

Element (Or in this case, suit/gun) A is powerful. Everyone starts using Element A then. But then, someone gets smart, and figures out a way to stop Element A, and make it obsolete. This produces Element B. Same scenario. Element C is created, then Element D, and so on, until Z. At which point, Element A becomes viable again.

This will get players to thing about the game. An example is the original StarCraft (I think it was called) game. The devs made everything perfectly BALANCED, so then the only way to win above all others was using routines that were calculated by the players. Within a short amount of time, it became less about "How can I beat this guy?" and more about "Who can execute this routine faster and/or more effectively?"

How about proto cal logis.. how often do you come out on top with a standard suit? I know I rip through std gear peeps in my proto cal logi fit and i'm not really that skilled at FPS games. Its completely power disparity that keeps me on top.

meh, i've used the HK4M a couple times in pubs. Its neat but you still get ripped unless you are in a good suit.


Well that's cause heavies are in a really bad spot atm. How about proto cal logis.. how often do you come out on top with a standard suit? I know I rip through std gear peeps in my proto cal logi fit and i'm not really that skilled at FPS games. Its completely power disparity that keeps me on top.

However, put me in PC against proto assaults, and I can barely hold my own. As in a 1v1 situation assault suits are quite a bit more powerful than logi suits. but you don't see this in pubs cause its mostly proto vs not proto power disparity that wins.

This sounds scary.

Please no.

Then I'd fit all STD gear in my slots and still be weak compared to Proto gear.

The strength of proto gear is fine.

It's the match up between newberries with MIL gear versus Protopacks

Put selectable filters on the gear the player wants to use and fight against.

Let the players choose what level of gear they want to fight

you guys must be exceptions to the rule then...

I'm an exception to EVERY rule.

Jk. But seriously, 90% of C-Logi's are just yapping poodles waiting to be shot. You might be an exception, but 10% is a pretty small number. :P

Plus, I've never played with you, so you know. Skill levels are all guesses here. :)

EDIT: Warning, slight topic change for a split second. Gallente Logi with a Shotgun? How is that? I know your HP isn't that great (Knowing the amount of HP is has, and knowing the slot count...), and you didn't save Low Slots for any KinCats, Cardiac Regulators, other biotic upgrades. Is the speed OK? I might make a 'Hunter' fitting using Ferroscale plating and some speed mods, but Idk.

My Director of Educations (Bojo the Mighty) came up with the theory that if you have G-Logi up to level 5, and then put 5 Complex Armor Repairs on it, it would be god-like. I still have to do the math, but he came up with around 60 hp/s. That, added onto the fact that Armor regenerates while even under fire, could be pretty amazing.

EDIT: Btw, have you tried strafing side to side? The distance between players usually means that if you're strafing, the small amount of un-noticable lag will make it looks like you're 2 seconds in the future. Killed many assaults because of their 'bad aim'. Also, it just makes some people look crazy sometimes. You'd be surprised at how bad aiming gets sometimes. If I wasn't smarter, I'd think that they were INTENTIONALLY shooting straight up...

What sounds scary about it?

std suit fitting all standard modules.. sounds right to me? You'd be more powerful than you are now (and closer to the power of a proto build)... and yes proto will still be more powerful.. like it was designed to be.

Nullarbor has already said he won't be designing matchmaking to segregate the player base. So that idea is out the window.

So the fellow who has maxed all core skills, all CPU reducing skills, and is basically a proto suit with only a 11th of the price.

If being able to field 11 proto strength suits and make a good profit doesn't scare you, you have balls of tritanium.

meh, i've used the HK4M a couple times in pubs. Its neat but you still get ripped unless you are in a good suit.



I've actually suggested that multiple times. Nullarbor already said he's not wanting to do that, as it will segregate the player base.

No it wouldn't, it just would allow proto gear in Hisec, everyone would still be allowed in Hisec