DUST Search - K/DR vs W/LR

hooc roht wrote:

KOBLAKA1 wrote:

the problem with dividing by SP is that unless you stop gaining it you will eventually reach almost zero which is inherently flawed
edit: division

agreed.

i guess after 10 million SP you should just use 10 million.

So if you have 15 million then just use 10

k/d / 10

also use how much SP you have spent.

If you have 5 million SP spent but have earned 6 million use 5 not 6.

The point of the ratio is negate any SP driven uber powers you have in a Kill per Death ratio.

You don't want to count those kills where a better player gets killed by you simply because you have more health and cause more damage do you?

Quote:

Seriously W/L or K/D as a better indicator?

Both are related and both are manipulable. If they have one that is high but another low then you should suspect something funny is going on.

If you see someone with a very high W/L but a low K/D it could mean they are good at sacrifice-winning...if you are looking for good squad/team member i would play a few matches with him and see what is up.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 67	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:20:00 - [1] - Quote Which do you think is more important and why?
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 156	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:23:00 - [2] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Which do you think is more important and why? neither K/D / SP is the most important. Or W/L / SP which ever.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 207	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:24:00 - [3] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: Which do you think is more important and why? neither K/D / SP is the most important. Or W/L / SP which ever. You... suck at math.
KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 158	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:26:00 - [4] - Quote the problem with dividing by SP is that unless you stop gaining it you will eventually reach almost zero which is inherently flawed edit: division
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 68	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:42:00 - [5] - Quote hooc roht wrote: Colonel Killar wrote: Which do you think is more important and why? neither K/D / SP is the most important. Or W/L / SP which ever. Shut up hooc or i'll go all local chat on your candyass
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 68	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:43:00 - [6] - Quote Seriously W/L or K/D as a better indicator?
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 157	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:47:00 - [7] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: the problem with dividing by SP is that unless you stop gaining it you will eventually reach almost zero which is inherently flawed edit: division agreed. i guess after 10 million SP you should just use 10 million. So if you have 15 million then just use 10 k/d / 10 also use how much SP you have spent. If you have 5 million SP spent but have earned 6 million use 5 not 6. The point of the ratio is negate any SP driven uber powers you have in a Kill per Death ratio. You don't want to count those kills where a better player gets killed by you simply because you have more health and cause more damage do you?
Byozuma Kegawa Shining Flame Amarr Empire 137	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:53:00 - [8] - Quote Wins, losses, kills, deaths... who cares. What counts the most is WP. You could go 0-10 and lose but there's no saying you didn't try to win if your WP is 700+. You did all you could and that's all anyone can ask.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 209	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:59:00 - [9] - Quote hooc roht wrote: You don't want to count those kills where a better player gets killed by you simply because you have more health and cause more damage do you? Actually, I do. Cuz I spent my SP wisely and have played the game long enough to grind that SP. Cuz that's how the game works. Welcome to New Eden: Where more than your twitch skill matters. /shrug-for-honesty Your anti-SP agenda is really... weird... It's like going into some MMO and tell people that "they ain't ****... they didn't do that epic dungeon with a level 1 character they are such noobs" ... learn how the game works. After all, it's just a game.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 209	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:01:00 - [10] - Quote hooc roht wrote: KOBLAKA1 wrote: the problem with dividing by SP is that unless you stop gaining it you will eventually reach almost zero which is inherently flawed edit: division agreed. i guess after 10 million SP you should just use 10 million. So if you have 15 million then just use 10 k/d / 10 also use how much SP you have spent. If you have 5 million SP spent but have earned 6 million use 5 not 6. The point of the ratio is negate any SP driven uber powers you have in a Kill per Death ratio. You don't want to count those kills where a better player gets killed by you simply because you have more health and cause more damage do you? Quote: Seriously W/L or K/D as a better indicator? Both are related and both are manipulable. If they have one that is high but another low then you should suspect something funny is going on. If you see someone with a very high W/L but a low K/D it could mean they are good at sacrifice-winning...if you are looking for good squad/team member i would play a few matches with him and see what is up. High K/d low W/L = likely a lone wolf or squads with noobs. High W/L low K/D = likely a decent team support player or runs with people better than him.

Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 209	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:02:00 - [11] - Quote Byozuma Kegawa wrote: Wins, losses, kills, deaths... who cares. What counts the most is WP. You could go 0-10 and lose but there's no saying you didn't try to win if your WP is 700+. You did all you could and that's all anyone can ask. That said, you should really be learning to adjust tactics and trying to NOT die10 times... know when to GTFO... just sayin...
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 173	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:04:00 - [12] - Quote ISK/WP/D Ks are only significant to grunts.
Medic 1879 Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 499	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:06:00 - [13] - Quote Most of it is pretty meaningless, W/L ratio is useful but playing solo has a tendency to throw you into a match that ends in defeat the second you arrive from time to time adding losses for battles unfought. (Oddly enough I have never jumped into a battle with 5 seconds left on the winning side for some reason.) K/D all well and good but there was a period of a few months where K/D wasn't tracked so people may have a k/d of say 3.5 but for those few months were regularly going 20+ kills 0 deaths or vise versa. Again throwing off the count. WP wasn't tracked either for a while. SP. Passive and amount of boosters determines SP total so boosters throws off the count. Also AFK'ing improves SP but requires no skill. I think the best indicator would have been WP/D if both had been counted before recently, this shows how much you actually get done per death. Good killers will have a high WP/D ratio as will good logi's however this may favour logi's over killers as they have a greater potential for WP also poor DS pilots who can be useful get little to no WP so would appear to be bad players on this scale when they might not be. Also as in every multi player game ever, Boosters (players boosting not SP boosters that is.) will always have amazing stats but usually terribad skills. Therefore the best indicator of skill is playing with someone and observing them.
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN Dark Taboo 162	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:08:00 - [14] - Quote I would say W/LR but with the game stacking teams and throwing people into matches that are almost over; W/LR is pretty much meaningless. With that said I would agree with Byozuma Kegawa that WP's is the most important but even that isn't completely accurate as that too can be affected by the game stacking teams & putting people in matches that are almost over. So, I'm forced to the conclusion that all the stats that the game tracks are useless.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 717	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:36:00 - [15] - Quote WP's can be generated from both useful and useless actions, but are easily exploitable if you know how to go about it. Therefore attaining a large amount of WP's does not "prove" anything about your actual contribution, nor does it disprove anything. Kills directly disrupt the enemies efforts and directly lead towards victory. They are the only way to prove you were useful.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1769	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:41:00 - [16] - Quote They are both equally unimportant.

CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 1599	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:50:00 - [17] - Quote WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business.

Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 116	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:57:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. Less Win/ISK More ISK Gain/ISK Lost But if your a CEO, I might say W/L
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2110	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:58:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. This being an in game stat would be nice
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak4 Expert Intervention Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:59:00 - [20] - Quote Ratio does not matter. I go for MAXIMUM KILL (I usually top the chart with most kill and most death)

BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:59:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. AFK for the win, then.
Tharak Meuridiar The Empyrean Agency 107	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:07:00 - [22] - Quote WP / match No dynamic is perfect though. As logi it's possible to get a lot of WP without contributing a great deal and with dropships you can contribute a great deal without getting many WP. For ambush the best measure is (Kills - Deaths) / Match. So 20 kills and 10 deaths is far better than 3 kills and 0 deaths. And the ambushes played during the last week are far more important than those played since the character was made.

CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 1607	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:08:00 - [23] - Quote BMSTUBBY wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. AFK for the win, then. touche.

Ofelia Softly Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:29:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. Which means if you die even once in an all proto fit you might as well quit the match.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2110	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:30:00 - [25] - Quote Ofelia Softly wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. Which means if you die even once in an all proto fit you might as well quit the match. And not get paid at all? That's just stupid...
Ofelia Softly Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:31:00 - [26] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Ofelia Softly wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. Which means if you die even once in an all proto fit you might as well quit the match. And not get paid at all? That's just stupid... Its more respectable than AFK'ing the rest of the match.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2110	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:36:00 - [27] - Quote I simply don't see your logic behind it. the negative ISK would still be there, so now you're just stacking -ISK, while not gaining any wins, so when you do gain a win it's now 1W/ 1/-1000ISK. That's dumb, why don't you just play in a starter fit?
hooc roht Deep Space Republic 157	Posted - 2013.07.02 00:36:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. .... Soooo.... Earning the least amount of ISK per win gets you a bigger number..... There really is truth when people say Devs don't even play their own game.
Major Lee High Battle Response Organizations 17	Posted - 2013.07.02 01:31:00 - [29] - Quote Stats are bogus. Not only were they broke for months, but people have abused things they can't do anymore etc. Unless they add in a Average from the last X amount of games/X amount of days they are just smoke screens and do not show the true potential of a player.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 2118	Posted - 2013.07.02 01:47:00 - [30] - Quote hooc roht wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: WIN / ISK ratio. Get the job done with the best margins, it's just good business. .... Soooo.... Earning the least amount of ISK per win gets you a bigger number..... There really is truth when people say Devs don't even play their own game. You forgot to count ISK lost genius, winning a 100 ISK while losing a 200 ISK protosuit puts you in the negatives.

Schalac 17 Dedicated Individuals Committed to Killing 286	Posted - 2013.07.02 01:53:00 - [31] - Quote The win is all that matters, regardless of price.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2013.07.02 02:12:00 - [32] - Quote Observations So Far... Some say the win is more important, some say efficency, some WP, some Kills... ... No winner Personal Thoughts/Questions Contracts are put out for people to win, so winning (FW at minimum) needs a win bounus to ISK only Kills (and Deaths) seem meaningless (think about the EVE economy with clone packs not the dust economy) in the grand scheme of things especially in a clone that can be replaced easily. WP seems balanced Being in a Squad with some one probably is the best indicator of their skill. Efficency is a pain in the rear to measure. To Nullharbor WIN/personal ISK spent or WIN/corp funding ISK spent?
Skipper Jones Red Star. EoN. 204	Posted - 2013.07.02 02:12:00 - [33] - Quote Neither are important and they really can't be judged. You win by teamwork. If your team sucks, then it will equal a loss. For a person that only played skirmish in beta, their K/D wouldn't be the greatest. Doesn't mean they're a bad player.
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 69	Posted - 2013.07.02 02:15:00 - [34] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: Neither are important and they really can't be judged. You win by teamwork. If your team sucks, then it will equal a loss. For a person that only played skirmish in beta, their K/D wouldn't be the greatest. Doesn't mean they're a bad player. Teamwork works and it works well but is hard to measure. How Could Teamwork be measured?
Flaminius-Aurelius Julius DUST University Ivy League 59	Posted - 2013.07.02 03:26:00 - [35] - Quote I see all these comments are talking about how there will be AFKers and people using cheap fits. Wouldn't we want to consider that this could be a good thing. AFK is a problem that can be addressed, but the cheap fits bit, that means Proto Stomp would be much less likely because Proto players don't want to lose their ratio on the ISK side. Anyone else see this? This could completely curtail proto-stomps. Proto stomps are specifically used for getting those KDR's up for people that think they need it high to compensate for something, now there is another ratio available for comparison that counters that incentive. Anyone?
Colonel Killar DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 73	Posted - 2013.07.02 03:34:00 - [36] - Quote Flaminius-Aurelius Julius wrote: I see all these comments are talking about how there will be AFKers and people using cheap fits. Wouldn't we want to consider that this could be a good thing. AFK is a problem that can be addressed, but the cheap fits bit, that means Proto Stomp would be much less likely because Proto players don't want to lose their ratio on the ISK side. Anyone else see this? This could completely curtail proto-stomps. Proto stomps are specifically used for getting those KDR's up for people that think they need it high to compensate for something, now there is another ratio available for comparison that counters that incentive. Anyone? I like this especially if they ask for corp funds.
Talbain Sigmund Deep Black Industries Yulai Federation 4	Posted - 2013.07.02 03:41:00 - [37] - Quote My vote is on efficiency. ISK Destroyed vs ISK spent. Cause the guy that looses two militia shitfits offing a proto geared guy is who I would rather have on my side.
Paladin Sas Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 38	Posted - 2013.07.02 04:06:00 - [38] - Quote in pub matches and faction warfare, win/isk is the most important factor. when it comes to planetary conquest, it becomes more isk lost VS. isk destroyed, winning counts obviously, but if you dont demoralize the enemy and break their wallet without going broke yourself, theyll keep coming.
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 57	Posted - 2013.07.02 04:15:00 - [39] - Quote I already said what I think about it in another thread and I'll never get tired to repeat myself, so copy and paste, here's my opinion (too lazy to write it again). #13Posted: 2013.06.30 15:29 \| Report 9 likes Pandora Mars wrote: Ratios pretty much make people being d*s. Ratios make people camp, ratios make people rage, ratios make people noob-stomp, ratios are an old-fashion that bring horrible persons in any game and ruin the fun. Even though KDR can be TDM related, it means NOTHING in objective games. Players are scared to hack an objective, WTH? And if a "Capture the Flag" will ever come, that's gonna be a full-time Ambush with 10+ snipers per match (and I say it because I'm a sniper and I know that most snipers are d*s) scoping in the flag and occasionally reading a newspaper and having a cup of tea. If that ever comes, people will realize KDR is a terrible thing in objective games. Example: See Uncharted 3. People asked Naughty Dog to remove KDR from Team Objective and Plunder for 1 year. In the end we won. Objective-based mode have finally become awesome.
THEDRiZZLE Aqua teen Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 51	Posted - 2013.07.02 05:21:00 - [40] - Quote Colonel Killar wrote: Which do you think is more important and why? Kd only because W/l is based of the effort of 16 pub match players so unless your a tanker or a sniper that can shoot threw walls its not an accurate way to measure skill. K/D isent either but it is better then w/l but k/d is based off one players skill . So your win loss ratio is divided by 1/16 of what it realy so dothat hair pin fraction and its your skill This is not based of ambush



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