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Why is it so expensive SP-wise to run a scout suit

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Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 4	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:23:00 - [1] - Quote Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 7	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote Forgot to add this. Here is a Proto Caldari Assault for comparison Caldari CK.0 Shields: 408 Armor: 230 eHP: 638 Recharge: 40/s Armor Rep: 3.45/s Weapon: Duvolle AR Side: ADV SMG Grenade: ADV Locus Equipment: None 3x Complex Shields 1x Enhanced Recharge 1x Enhance CPU upgrade 1x Enhanced Armor 1x Enchanced Rep All for the low cost of 7,152,450 SP! Another reason why everybody runs Assault. Easy as hell to use and extremely SP efficient.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1145	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote cause grinding = content, according to CCP.
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc 606	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:45:00 - [4] - Quote You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault.
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:47:00 - [5] - Quote You are absolutely right and it doesn't matter what build you use, you always have to spend crazy amounts of SP to end up with a subpar result regardless.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:48:00 - [6] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault. My complaint is that you can make an awesome assault suit cheap, and yet to have an awesome scout, you have to spend an additional 6 mil SP! You spend so much SP just to have a good PC scout! Wheras you can make another Proto AR for so much cheaper!
dday3six Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 40	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:50:00 - [7] - Quote CCP doesn't factor in "time to maximize effectiveness" as part of meta balance.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 179	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:04:00 - [8] - Quote Maximizing a logi fit is going to cost me >20mil.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 10	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:09:00 - [9] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Maximizing a logi fit is going to cost me >20mil. But you can still run an excellent logi for a lot less. Once again, maximizing ANY build is going to be crazy expensive. My complaint is that you HAVE to maximize some EXPENSIVE skills just to get an excellent scout.
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:20:00 - [10] - Quote Why should you use a proto scout. Just get it to advanced with advanced kinetic an cardiac and one complex shield and one enhanced shield extender. It is more than enough for me with a shotgun knives and remotes

KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 511	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:30:00 - [11] - Quote Maybe because scouts seem to be (currently) for highly specialized purposes. The fact is emphasized by they being very light-weight. For a rough analogy, think about formula racing car: built for narrow purpose, very light and fragile, takes huge amount of engineering to build and tune to optimum - and is fast as a f... Um, Ferret. TLDR; not all suits and races have to identical or symmetrical. Forget that concept.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:42:00 - [12] - Quote My problem with the Scout is not SP, but ISK...The suits cost to much considering how often you die. Most of the core skills you talking about, are also handy for other suits. Things like CPU / PG are useful for Assault suits too, and also speed, shields, and armor... so you don't really wasting any SP in core passive skills. But the ISK cost really slows you down, specially when you start to lose ISK in every battle.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis 102	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:50:00 - [13] - Quote @OP It's the price we pay for playing dust in Hard Mode.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:55:00 - [14] - Quote Someone, do the numbers for maximizing the Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 287	Posted - 2013.07.01 12:19:00 - [15] - Quote If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive !
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 96	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:04:00 - [16] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive ! On proto minnie scout, you if you fit 3 complex shields, 2 complex kin cats, you can fit proto nova knives and nothing else. I have 15.5m SP, all in scouts. What the OP says about the skills needed for scouts is about right, it costs about 9m to get the perfect nova knife fit.
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:11:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault. You just deal with it, like every other suit that wants to fully specialize as much as they can. Says the Assaulter Heavies also have insane SP and ISK costs too. Unless you have +50 million ISK, it's best to not go Proto Heavy.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 272	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:26:00 - [18] - Quote If minmatar get a extra low, I want a extra high for my gallente! I agree that the CPU is pretty low, but you really should max your CPU skills. Any skill that lowers your CPU consumption or raises your CPU should be considered a core skill.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 783	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:29:00 - [19] - Quote Lose the scanner - they're pretty pointless and just take up isk, SP, CPU and PG.
Jarlaxle Xorlarrin SyNergy Gaming EoN. 89	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:18:00 - [20] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. I disagree EDIT: Idk why all of you think its necessary to run kincats on scouts. They're fast enough as is. Save some CPU/PG and put something else on lol. The Cardiac Regulators I can see using, but kincats no.

Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 287	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:42:00 - [21] - Quote Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive ! On proto minnie scout, you if you fit 3 complex shields, 2 complex kin cats, you can fit proto nova knives and nothing else. I have 15.5m SP, all in scouts. What the OP says about the skills needed for scouts is about right, it costs about 9m to get the perfect nova knife fit. I'm not debating the specific sp costs of any suits ... try the amarr logistics with all the equipment, armor, shields, light and sidearm, they cost me 170, 000 isk and I'm FAR from optimal with 11 mil invested. My point is the OP is comparing 2 suits ... one has almost all proto gear ... the other just has a weapon and shields ! It's near enough comparing a proto scout to an advanced assault fit.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 53	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:49:00 - [22] - Quote "This ideal setup with all lvl 5 skills uses far too many skillpoints! This is evidence that scouts are non-viable!"
TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 233	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:52:00 - [23] - Quote I was actually consider going scout this last respec but I did the math and realized my suit is not mathematically possible to run EVER. I really wanted to get that nova knife bonus!
Appia Vibbia Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 92	Posted - 2013.07.01 16:43:00 - [24] - Quote My corpmates are specializing into their third and fourth weapons since they have all the core skills they need, while I'm desperate for SP. I happen to have more then them. Right now, I have just over 7 million SP invested in Dropsuit Upgrades. I need another 6 million SP to be where I want. 3 million in there is from Profile Dampening, Range Amplification, and Precision Enhancement and another million from Kinetic Catalyzation, and 2 million from Engineering & Electronics. So 4 million from Scout specific and 2 million from dreadfully needed and inadequate CPU/PG Plus I still want to enhance my weapon skills. got Sniper Rifle Proficiency V and Scrambler Pistol Proficiency III. I also want to go into an AV weapon. Demolitions and Grenadier 24 Million SP seems to be where I'll be able to diversify
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 23	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:06:00 - [25] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Someone, do the numbers for maximizing the Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0. I can do that for you. What do you want on the suit? Cody Sietz wrote: If minmatar get a extra low, I want a extra high for my gallente! I completely agree. Scouts need some slot love. Also, whoever recommended dumping the scanner, good advice. I should really just let a logi use the scanner instead of me. They have enough to run it, and I really need the extra CPU. I was able to cram some more shields and a proto knife onto my current suit (not the built one). Thanks for the tip!
Zedra Faiolin Ill Omens EoN. 3	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:00:00 - [26] - Quote While I certainly would love another slot on my scout, but your complaining about an unbalanced situation, when your only looking at half the picture. Take every statistic on a give suit and then make up a weight list. 1 meter / sec = 1 point then once you have a general point / stat chart setup apply it to a multiple suits. It will probably look really terrible in your eyes because I'm sure your weight system will be different than the devs' (if they have one). But do this and you might actual have some fully analyzed proof that scouts are UP. Also you may also wanna think about the fact "you're doing it wrong". God forbid. I know. The changes I'd like to see is that the different frame classes get actual modifiers to their grenades akin to their respective tool-tips. Light frame grenades do like 75% (this is a reduction) damage of the tooltip but you carry x2 quantity or the like. so scouts could actually be like anti-confrontational and be used to flux the hell out of enemy equip or something. Or maybe the introduction of reactive type modules that are scout only equipable. Pulse shield = after taking damage, all damage taken is reduced by 70% for 3 seconds, 18second cooldown. TL:DR; Think outside the box, +/- all the time is just so bland.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2013.07.02 01:29:00 - [27] - Quote Your thread = CCP, get rid of fitting requirements.
Mahal Daj Delta Enterprise 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:16:00 - [28] - Quote Zedra: I would certainly give up some grenade damage for extra grenades (smoke grenades?)! I think this conversation is hilarious, because it wags the tail of the this-isn't-fair-COD. If you are having a problem with making a scout suit a capable fighter, no amount of EHP will solve your issue. You're going to have to follow the rules of EVE to survive: 1. 'Fly' what you can afford to lose 2. Skills should support style 3. Fittings should compliment bonuses With this in mind, If you are getting killed extensively, to great monetary loss, in a scout suit... change your combat range. Much like the frigates in EVE, the scout suit is intended to be a weapon of mobility, not constitution. If you want EHP and you're feeling slow, use an assault suit and add the KinCat/Stamina mods and enjoy the benefits of natural armor (from the suit) with higher speed (from the modules) and more slots without the SP costs (from the suit). Fly Safe
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:38:00 - [29] - Quote yeah i c where ur going but like me i mostly go all out on upgrades and mostly go for advanced suits so in the long run make alot of isk but in long run i know what to skill up in remember u dont have to be proto in everything to be good .
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F 772	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:40:00 - [30] - Quote i'm not going to be finished with my sniper fit till around 26 million sp....and that's starting to seem like a bit of an under estimate.

Poplo Furuya Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 692	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:02:00 - [31] - Quote Oh, it's this thread, brought back from the dead. Now if only scouts could be similarly resurrected. Most of their roles can be done better by Caldari and Minmatar Assaults or a speed-fitted MinLogi.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 829	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:07:00 - [32] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Dude why the second shield extender? Bro, your a scout! It's like putting on a hat to match your new tie. shield extenders on scout is really just to by you time to get cover. You front lining man? Your fronting?! Scouts that want to be assaults... racist
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 752	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:08:00 - [33] - Quote How about the PG skill being so SP intensive, why do I have to spend so much damn SP for a 5 percent PG increase per level? I'd like to see it dropped to a 1x skill.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 977	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:21:00 - [34] - Quote Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete
Crimson Judgment ROGUE SPADES EoN. 87	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:35:00 - [35] - Quote Jarlaxle Xorlarrin wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. I disagree EDIT: Idk why all of you think its necessary to run kincats on scouts. They're fast enough as is. Save some CPU/PG and put something else on lol. The Cardiac Regulators I can see using, but kincats no. well if you think about it without them they can almost be outrun by the minmatar assault suit on that note i would actually recommend using a minmatar assault as a scout suit you get higher hp higher cpu and pg slightly lower sprint speed and im pretty sure more high slots. my comment above is actually very sad because the minmatar assault kinda makes the scout suit pointless although im not anywhere close to prototype in the skills required to make this fitting and don't even have my proto minmatar assault suit yet or even complex extenders so if anyone here happens to have the skills upgraded to make a minmatar assault scout hybrid i would be interested to hear the results a fitting i was thinking of is proto minmatar assault suit ishukone assault sub machine gun anything you prefer really but i would suggest a shotgun or maybe even a proto scrambler pistol. high slots 1-2-3 complex/enhanced shield extenders pending on what you put as your primary complex sidearm/light damage mod complex/enhanced shield energizer. pnding on how many shield extenders used complex/enhanced precision enhancer/range amplifier low slots complex kinetic catalyzer complex/enhanced code breaker for get in hack get out complex/enhanced ferroscale plates if you want more armor or complex/enhanced profile dampener if you want to be more like a scout grenade your choice/whatever you can fit equipment your choice/whatever you can fit anyone think a fitting like this would work? or happen to have the proper skills to see if this fitting would work or if this crud would even fit on a suit lol
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 752	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:37:00 - [36] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 305	Posted - 2013.08.22 16:21:00 - [37] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Dude why the second shield extender? Bro, your a scout! It's like putting on a hat to match your new tie. shield extenders on scout is really just to by you time to get cover. You front lining man? Your fronting?! Scouts that want to be assaults... racist While I understand where you are coming from when you spend that much on a suit setup, you want to have that extra HP for protection. AR's or a well place MD wipe out a one extender suit. The 2nd extender does give at least that extra second to preserve your suit at times. Also the other high slot items cost more CPU or havent proved their worth. And to the poster who said that a scout should forego KinCats - That would make a niche suit even more situational. You really should find other threads to comment on. - I have a few suits that dont use them but I only bring those out when supporting a really strong squad or trying to defend a base with many other members alongside.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 980	Posted - 2013.08.22 16:57:00 - [38] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus. Its pointed at OP complaining about having proto stuff
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 753	Posted - 2013.08.22 19:51:00 - [39] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus. Its pointed at OP complaining about having proto stuff Ah, sorry. I thought it was cause my earlier post on the PG skill.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 380	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:03:00 - [40] - Quote This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though.

Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 306	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:13:00 - [41] - Quote Niuvo wrote: This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though. But they are PG intensive and on the top of the scale SP wise for a base skill - thats (the 2nd part mostly) is probably what he meant.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 382	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:46:00 - [42] - Quote I'm guessing that a good scout fitting costs less isk then the other classes, once we start dying less with improved game mechanics we'll be banking.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 697	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:06:00 - [43] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Minmatar militia scout. Exile Militia shield Militia repper Basic kin cat Remotes or hives or proxy depending on map 4K cost SP cost is very low. And thats what I run. Other times I run militia minmatar logistics and militia mods for under 4k per suit/mods/weapons total. Or my expensive suits: Militia or basic heavy basic hmg, militia mods 12k
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3091	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:07:00 - [44] - Quote Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 697	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:17:00 - [45] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with. And heavys trying to run faster never, ever invest in biotic skills?? EVERYONE does sooner or later not just scouts.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 377	Posted - 2013.08.23 03:58:00 - [46] - Quote +1.... scouts require a lot of CPU/PG skill upgrades just to shoehorn a bit of extra survivability onto their fits (shield extenders and biotics). I also only have a few fits which don't use biotics and I rarely use them. The fits that have more tank, or stealth/scanning are too situational and the upgrades to armor, shields, and sensors do not overcome the loss in mobility. These situational suits tend to leave me more helpless when spotted due to their inability to retreat effectively. Maybe this will change when the tac net changes are implemented in 1.4 and stealth/scanning becomes more important. Given my death rate in matches, I almost never run proto because it's just too expensive. I have proto suit skills for the bonuses though. I can't speak for heavies or logis, but I could see one needing to invest a lot there as well (same for vehicles). I guess in reality the only ones that have it 'easy' in terms of SP investment required to cost effectively stomp are assaults?
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 386	Posted - 2013.08.23 05:29:00 - [47] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: +1.... scouts require a lot of CPU/PG skill upgrades just to shoehorn a bit of extra survivability onto their fits (shield extenders and biotics). I also only have a few fits which don't use biotics and I rarely use them. The fits that have more tank, or stealth/scanning are too situational and the upgrades to armor, shields, and sensors do not overcome the loss in mobility. These situational suits tend to leave me more helpless when spotted due to their inability to retreat effectively. Maybe this will change when the tac net changes are implemented in 1.4 and stealth/scanning becomes more important. Given my death rate in matches, I almost never run proto because it's just too expensive. I have proto suit skills for the bonuses though. I can't speak for heavies or logis, but I could see one needing to invest a lot there as well (same for vehicles). I guess in reality the only ones that have it 'easy' in terms of SP investment required to cost effectively stomp are assaults? There's something cool about a tanked scout, you can do quick damage, receive heavy damage and get away, just barely--but get away. Also no scout likes dying, so the extra health always helps! One basic armor plate was saving my gal alot. Matt, if you have pro scout and what range enhancers do you have? Do you spot enemies in the 2nd circle of the mini-map? I would figure that knowing where the enemy is will keep you alive. If I'm a non-combat role, what the hell am I suppose to do right now? I don't want to use modules for health though, I want to use them for scoutly stuff. In the end, there's something rewarding about playing as a scout. Specialized Creative Operator Using Tactics.
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 96	Posted - 2013.08.23 06:45:00 - [48] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Niuvo wrote: This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though. But they are PG intensive and on the top of the scale SP wise for a base skill - thats (the 2nd part mostly) is probably what he meant. Man, I have all supporting skills like engineering, electronics and core dropsuits at 5 and still I can hardly fit my advanced scout correctly. I actually have to remove the sidearm to fit the complex kinetic catalyzer which I will get today. My minni advanced scout has CPU of 211 and a PG of 55.
Vargralor Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.08.23 07:09:00 - [49] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with. And heavys trying to run faster never, ever invest in biotic skills?? EVERYONE does sooner or later not just scouts. Sure, everyone wants those skills sooner or later but scout suits speed tank (usually) due to their crap shields and armour. For an Assault suit to unlock basic shield extenders you need Dropsuit Upgrades to lvl 2, Shield Upgrades to lvl 1and Shield Extenders to lvl 1 for a total of around 54,000 SP. For a Scout suit to unlock basic KinCats you need Dropsuit Upgrades to lvl 4, Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades to lvl 5, and Kinetic Catalyzation to lvl 1 for a total of around 720,000 SP. This is just for your basic survival modules for the suit.
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 352	Posted - 2013.08.23 07:22:00 - [50] - Quote Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are.

Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 391	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:51:00 - [51] - Quote Do you guys think that the scout suit is for real players, those that don't go for the easy mode kills. Can anyone do good in a scout suit? Is this truly hard mode or are we making it seem so? Can people switch to the scout suit and do well or are we just good in a whole different way of playing? How awesome it will be to guide new scouts, new to New Eden?
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 98	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:10:00 - [52] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Do you guys think that the scout suit is for real players, those that don't go for the easy mode kills. Can anyone do good in a scout suit? Is this truly hard mode or are we making it seem so? Can people switch to the scout suit and do well or are we just good in a whole different way of playing? How awesome it will be to guide new scouts, new to New Eden? Well I am actually getting a lot of positive kd's in my scout nowadays. But i often change to logi halfway through the match.
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 276	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:29:00 - [53] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. most of my sniper suits dont even have a secondary nor do they have nano hives or anything els...
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 378	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:14:00 - [54] - Quote Niuvo wrote: There's something cool about a tanked scout, you can do quick damage, receive heavy damage and get away, just barely--but get away. Also no scout likes dying, so the extra health always helps! One basic armor plate was saving my gal alot. Matt, if you have pro scout and what range enhancers do you have? Do you spot enemies in the 2nd circle of the mini-map? I would figure that knowing where the enemy is will keep you alive. If I'm a non-combat role, what the hell am I suppose to do right now? I don't want to use modules for health though, I want to use them for scoutly stuff. In the end, there's something rewarding about playing as a scout. Specialized Creative Operator Using Tactics. It is nice having some additional armor, that's for sure - but it only works well for me when I am running with a squad of assaults and I'm using my scout suit as more of an assault type suit. In terms of my scanning fits, I typically go with 2 enhanced range extenders which gives me range to about 41m, which is inside the middle circle on the TAC net. it's helpful but with no armor recharge or speed mods, I need to be really careful about where I am relative to the enemies (and I can't pick up other scouts with my precision anyway so it's still risky). It's a good fit for sniper hunting but still I'd almost always have greater mobility. I typically use these mods on my STD suit, I die so frequently using Proto just doesn't make a whole lot of sense many times.
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 28	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:46:00 - [55] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are. o7 I think part of the issue is that additional SP sinks for scouts just don't pay off as well as core skills do for assaults. Our speed is still relatively lol worthy compared to Minnie assaults (especially since I'm a Gal scout so...) and sensor skills/modules kinda don't mean much when passive scanning...is what it is. Hacking is as expensive as electronics and engineering...it is very tempting to play a recon min-logi. Good job scouts can jump the highest...take that from me though and...well I don't want to contemplate the consequences...
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 99	Posted - 2013.08.24 12:11:00 - [56] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are. Just got my complex kinteic katalysers yesterday. Adds again to the fun :)
Aisha Ctarl The Generals EoN. 1101	Posted - 2013.08.24 12:26:00 - [57] - Quote As a scout, I approve of this message. I currently have both CPU and PG skills at 3 and it is painful to fit a good scout.


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