DUST Search - Why is it so expensive SP-wise to run a scout suit

All Channels

General Discussions

Why is it so expensive SP-wise to run a scout suit

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 4	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:23:00 - [1] - Quote Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 7	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote Forgot to add this. Here is a Proto Caldari Assault for comparison Caldari CK.0 Shields: 408 Armor: 230 eHP: 638 Recharge: 40/s Armor Rep: 3.45/s Weapon: Duvolle AR Side: ADV SMG Grenade: ADV Locus Equipment: None 3x Complex Shields 1x Enhanced Recharge 1x Enhance CPU upgrade 1x Enhanced Armor 1x Enchanced Rep All for the low cost of 7,152,450 SP! Another reason why everybody runs Assault. Easy as hell to use and extremely SP efficient.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1145	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote cause grinding = content, according to CCP.
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc 606	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:45:00 - [4] - Quote You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault.
loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:47:00 - [5] - Quote You are absolutely right and it doesn't matter what build you use, you always have to spend crazy amounts of SP to end up with a subpar result regardless.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 8	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:48:00 - [6] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault. My complaint is that you can make an awesome assault suit cheap, and yet to have an awesome scout, you have to spend an additional 6 mil SP! You spend so much SP just to have a good PC scout! Wheras you can make another Proto AR for so much cheaper!
dday3six Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 40	Posted - 2013.06.30 20:50:00 - [7] - Quote CCP doesn't factor in "time to maximize effectiveness" as part of meta balance.
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 179	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:04:00 - [8] - Quote Maximizing a logi fit is going to cost me >20mil.
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 10	Posted - 2013.06.30 21:09:00 - [9] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Maximizing a logi fit is going to cost me >20mil. But you can still run an excellent logi for a lot less. Once again, maximizing ANY build is going to be crazy expensive. My complaint is that you HAVE to maximize some EXPENSIVE skills just to get an excellent scout.
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 24	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:20:00 - [10] - Quote Why should you use a proto scout. Just get it to advanced with advanced kinetic an cardiac and one complex shield and one enhanced shield extender. It is more than enough for me with a shotgun knives and remotes

KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 511	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:30:00 - [11] - Quote Maybe because scouts seem to be (currently) for highly specialized purposes. The fact is emphasized by they being very light-weight. For a rough analogy, think about formula racing car: built for narrow purpose, very light and fragile, takes huge amount of engineering to build and tune to optimum - and is fast as a f... Um, Ferret. TLDR; not all suits and races have to identical or symmetrical. Forget that concept.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 108	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:42:00 - [12] - Quote My problem with the Scout is not SP, but ISK...The suits cost to much considering how often you die. Most of the core skills you talking about, are also handy for other suits. Things like CPU / PG are useful for Assault suits too, and also speed, shields, and armor... so you don't really wasting any SP in core passive skills. But the ISK cost really slows you down, specially when you start to lose ISK in every battle.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis 102	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:50:00 - [13] - Quote @OP It's the price we pay for playing dust in Hard Mode.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.07.01 09:55:00 - [14] - Quote Someone, do the numbers for maximizing the Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 287	Posted - 2013.07.01 12:19:00 - [15] - Quote If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive !
Spec Ops Cipher Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 96	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:04:00 - [16] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive ! On proto minnie scout, you if you fit 3 complex shields, 2 complex kin cats, you can fit proto nova knives and nothing else. I have 15.5m SP, all in scouts. What the OP says about the skills needed for scouts is about right, it costs about 9m to get the perfect nova knife fit.
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:11:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: You expect to run all of that and not need to spend SP into making it fit? I got the same issue right now running Swarm Launcher on my Minmatar Assault. You just deal with it, like every other suit that wants to fully specialize as much as they can. Says the Assaulter Heavies also have insane SP and ISK costs too. Unless you have +50 million ISK, it's best to not go Proto Heavy.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 272	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:26:00 - [18] - Quote If minmatar get a extra low, I want a extra high for my gallente! I agree that the CPU is pretty low, but you really should max your CPU skills. Any skill that lowers your CPU consumption or raises your CPU should be considered a core skill.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 783	Posted - 2013.07.01 13:29:00 - [19] - Quote Lose the scanner - they're pretty pointless and just take up isk, SP, CPU and PG.
Jarlaxle Xorlarrin SyNergy Gaming EoN. 89	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:18:00 - [20] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. I disagree EDIT: Idk why all of you think its necessary to run kincats on scouts. They're fast enough as is. Save some CPU/PG and put something else on lol. The Cardiac Regulators I can see using, but kincats no.

Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 287	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:42:00 - [21] - Quote Spec Ops Cipher wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: If you're going to compare suits, at least compare like for like ... You've got a scout with 2 proto weapons, proto shields and 2 proto speed mods (I don't know if they're same skill or not) and you're comparing sp costs to an assault suit with 1 proto weapon and proto shields. Of course the one with more proto gear will be more sp expensive ! On proto minnie scout, you if you fit 3 complex shields, 2 complex kin cats, you can fit proto nova knives and nothing else. I have 15.5m SP, all in scouts. What the OP says about the skills needed for scouts is about right, it costs about 9m to get the perfect nova knife fit. I'm not debating the specific sp costs of any suits ... try the amarr logistics with all the equipment, armor, shields, light and sidearm, they cost me 170, 000 isk and I'm FAR from optimal with 11 mil invested. My point is the OP is comparing 2 suits ... one has almost all proto gear ... the other just has a weapon and shields ! It's near enough comparing a proto scout to an advanced assault fit.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 53	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:49:00 - [22] - Quote "This ideal setup with all lvl 5 skills uses far too many skillpoints! This is evidence that scouts are non-viable!"
TheMarkOf22 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 233	Posted - 2013.07.01 15:52:00 - [23] - Quote I was actually consider going scout this last respec but I did the math and realized my suit is not mathematically possible to run EVER. I really wanted to get that nova knife bonus!
Appia Vibbia Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 92	Posted - 2013.07.01 16:43:00 - [24] - Quote My corpmates are specializing into their third and fourth weapons since they have all the core skills they need, while I'm desperate for SP. I happen to have more then them. Right now, I have just over 7 million SP invested in Dropsuit Upgrades. I need another 6 million SP to be where I want. 3 million in there is from Profile Dampening, Range Amplification, and Precision Enhancement and another million from Kinetic Catalyzation, and 2 million from Engineering & Electronics. So 4 million from Scout specific and 2 million from dreadfully needed and inadequate CPU/PG Plus I still want to enhance my weapon skills. got Sniper Rifle Proficiency V and Scrambler Pistol Proficiency III. I also want to go into an AV weapon. Demolitions and Grenadier 24 Million SP seems to be where I'll be able to diversify
Ghost Kaisar Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 23	Posted - 2013.07.01 22:06:00 - [25] - Quote LT SHANKS wrote: Someone, do the numbers for maximizing the Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0. I can do that for you. What do you want on the suit? Cody Sietz wrote: If minmatar get a extra low, I want a extra high for my gallente! I completely agree. Scouts need some slot love. Also, whoever recommended dumping the scanner, good advice. I should really just let a logi use the scanner instead of me. They have enough to run it, and I really need the extra CPU. I was able to cram some more shields and a proto knife onto my current suit (not the built one). Thanks for the tip!
Zedra Faiolin Ill Omens EoN. 3	Posted - 2013.07.01 23:00:00 - [26] - Quote While I certainly would love another slot on my scout, but your complaining about an unbalanced situation, when your only looking at half the picture. Take every statistic on a give suit and then make up a weight list. 1 meter / sec = 1 point then once you have a general point / stat chart setup apply it to a multiple suits. It will probably look really terrible in your eyes because I'm sure your weight system will be different than the devs' (if they have one). But do this and you might actual have some fully analyzed proof that scouts are UP. Also you may also wanna think about the fact "you're doing it wrong". God forbid. I know. The changes I'd like to see is that the different frame classes get actual modifiers to their grenades akin to their respective tool-tips. Light frame grenades do like 75% (this is a reduction) damage of the tooltip but you carry x2 quantity or the like. so scouts could actually be like anti-confrontational and be used to flux the hell out of enemy equip or something. Or maybe the introduction of reactive type modules that are scout only equipable. Pulse shield = after taking damage, all damage taken is reduced by 70% for 3 seconds, 18second cooldown. TL:DR; Think outside the box, +/- all the time is just so bland.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2013.07.02 01:29:00 - [27] - Quote Your thread = CCP, get rid of fitting requirements.
Mahal Daj Delta Enterprise 0	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:16:00 - [28] - Quote Zedra: I would certainly give up some grenade damage for extra grenades (smoke grenades?)! I think this conversation is hilarious, because it wags the tail of the this-isn't-fair-COD. If you are having a problem with making a scout suit a capable fighter, no amount of EHP will solve your issue. You're going to have to follow the rules of EVE to survive: 1. 'Fly' what you can afford to lose 2. Skills should support style 3. Fittings should compliment bonuses With this in mind, If you are getting killed extensively, to great monetary loss, in a scout suit... change your combat range. Much like the frigates in EVE, the scout suit is intended to be a weapon of mobility, not constitution. If you want EHP and you're feeling slow, use an assault suit and add the KinCat/Stamina mods and enjoy the benefits of natural armor (from the suit) with higher speed (from the modules) and more slots without the SP costs (from the suit). Fly Safe
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 25	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:38:00 - [29] - Quote yeah i c where ur going but like me i mostly go all out on upgrades and mostly go for advanced suits so in the long run make alot of isk but in long run i know what to skill up in remember u dont have to be proto in everything to be good .
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F 772	Posted - 2013.08.22 14:40:00 - [30] - Quote i'm not going to be finished with my sniper fit till around 26 million sp....and that's starting to seem like a bit of an under estimate.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.