DUST Search - Why is it so expensive SP-wise to run a scout suit

Surt gods end wrote:

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it.

Minmatar Scout MK.0

Shields: 270
Armor: 70
eHP: 340

Speed: 9.35 m/s
Stamina: 441
Profile: 33.75

Weapon: Proto Knives
Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub
Grenade: Basic Flux
Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner

2x Complex Shields
1x Complex Kincat
1x Complex Stamina

This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one.

Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base.

In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost?

13,446,560 SP

Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following:

Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit
another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed
3 more for proto speed and stamina
1.5 for shields

so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG.

If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil.

OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT

Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem.

Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary.

Dude why the second shield extender? Bro, your a scout! It's like putting on a hat to match your new tie. shield extenders on scout is really just to by you time to get cover. You front lining man? Your fronting?!

Scouts that want to be assaults...

*racist*

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Poplo Furuya Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 692	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:02:00 - [31] - Quote Oh, it's this thread, brought back from the dead. Now if only scouts could be similarly resurrected. Most of their roles can be done better by Caldari and Minmatar Assaults or a speed-fitted MinLogi.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 829	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:07:00 - [32] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Dude why the second shield extender? Bro, your a scout! It's like putting on a hat to match your new tie. shield extenders on scout is really just to by you time to get cover. You front lining man? Your fronting?! Scouts that want to be assaults... racist
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 752	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:08:00 - [33] - Quote How about the PG skill being so SP intensive, why do I have to spend so much damn SP for a 5 percent PG increase per level? I'd like to see it dropped to a 1x skill.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 977	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:21:00 - [34] - Quote Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete
Crimson Judgment ROGUE SPADES EoN. 87	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:35:00 - [35] - Quote Jarlaxle Xorlarrin wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. I disagree EDIT: Idk why all of you think its necessary to run kincats on scouts. They're fast enough as is. Save some CPU/PG and put something else on lol. The Cardiac Regulators I can see using, but kincats no. well if you think about it without them they can almost be outrun by the minmatar assault suit on that note i would actually recommend using a minmatar assault as a scout suit you get higher hp higher cpu and pg slightly lower sprint speed and im pretty sure more high slots. my comment above is actually very sad because the minmatar assault kinda makes the scout suit pointless although im not anywhere close to prototype in the skills required to make this fitting and don't even have my proto minmatar assault suit yet or even complex extenders so if anyone here happens to have the skills upgraded to make a minmatar assault scout hybrid i would be interested to hear the results a fitting i was thinking of is proto minmatar assault suit ishukone assault sub machine gun anything you prefer really but i would suggest a shotgun or maybe even a proto scrambler pistol. high slots 1-2-3 complex/enhanced shield extenders pending on what you put as your primary complex sidearm/light damage mod complex/enhanced shield energizer. pnding on how many shield extenders used complex/enhanced precision enhancer/range amplifier low slots complex kinetic catalyzer complex/enhanced code breaker for get in hack get out complex/enhanced ferroscale plates if you want more armor or complex/enhanced profile dampener if you want to be more like a scout grenade your choice/whatever you can fit equipment your choice/whatever you can fit anyone think a fitting like this would work? or happen to have the proper skills to see if this fitting would work or if this crud would even fit on a suit lol
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 752	Posted - 2013.08.22 15:37:00 - [36] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 305	Posted - 2013.08.22 16:21:00 - [37] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Dude why the second shield extender? Bro, your a scout! It's like putting on a hat to match your new tie. shield extenders on scout is really just to by you time to get cover. You front lining man? Your fronting?! Scouts that want to be assaults... racist While I understand where you are coming from when you spend that much on a suit setup, you want to have that extra HP for protection. AR's or a well place MD wipe out a one extender suit. The 2nd extender does give at least that extra second to preserve your suit at times. Also the other high slot items cost more CPU or havent proved their worth. And to the poster who said that a scout should forego KinCats - That would make a niche suit even more situational. You really should find other threads to comment on. - I have a few suits that dont use them but I only bring those out when supporting a really strong squad or trying to defend a base with many other members alongside.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 980	Posted - 2013.08.22 16:57:00 - [38] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus. Its pointed at OP complaining about having proto stuff
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 753	Posted - 2013.08.22 19:51:00 - [39] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dropsuit gets a PG skill which add 5% per level, vehicles dont Try using vehicles you dont even know what hard is When we go into PC we are already going in UP against full proto teams and why is that because we dont have adv/proto mods and hulls so we are stuck with basic At least you can compete Is that pointed at me? I fly ADS. I would love more PG for my incubus. Its pointed at OP complaining about having proto stuff Ah, sorry. I thought it was cause my earlier post on the PG skill.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 380	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:03:00 - [40] - Quote This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though.

Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 306	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:13:00 - [41] - Quote Niuvo wrote: This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though. But they are PG intensive and on the top of the scale SP wise for a base skill - thats (the 2nd part mostly) is probably what he meant.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 382	Posted - 2013.08.22 20:46:00 - [42] - Quote I'm guessing that a good scout fitting costs less isk then the other classes, once we start dying less with improved game mechanics we'll be banking.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 697	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:06:00 - [43] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. Minmatar militia scout. Exile Militia shield Militia repper Basic kin cat Remotes or hives or proxy depending on map 4K cost SP cost is very low. And thats what I run. Other times I run militia minmatar logistics and militia mods for under 4k per suit/mods/weapons total. Or my expensive suits: Militia or basic heavy basic hmg, militia mods 12k
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3091	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:07:00 - [44] - Quote Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 697	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:17:00 - [45] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with. And heavys trying to run faster never, ever invest in biotic skills?? EVERYONE does sooner or later not just scouts.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 377	Posted - 2013.08.23 03:58:00 - [46] - Quote +1.... scouts require a lot of CPU/PG skill upgrades just to shoehorn a bit of extra survivability onto their fits (shield extenders and biotics). I also only have a few fits which don't use biotics and I rarely use them. The fits that have more tank, or stealth/scanning are too situational and the upgrades to armor, shields, and sensors do not overcome the loss in mobility. These situational suits tend to leave me more helpless when spotted due to their inability to retreat effectively. Maybe this will change when the tac net changes are implemented in 1.4 and stealth/scanning becomes more important. Given my death rate in matches, I almost never run proto because it's just too expensive. I have proto suit skills for the bonuses though. I can't speak for heavies or logis, but I could see one needing to invest a lot there as well (same for vehicles). I guess in reality the only ones that have it 'easy' in terms of SP investment required to cost effectively stomp are assaults?
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 386	Posted - 2013.08.23 05:29:00 - [47] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: +1.... scouts require a lot of CPU/PG skill upgrades just to shoehorn a bit of extra survivability onto their fits (shield extenders and biotics). I also only have a few fits which don't use biotics and I rarely use them. The fits that have more tank, or stealth/scanning are too situational and the upgrades to armor, shields, and sensors do not overcome the loss in mobility. These situational suits tend to leave me more helpless when spotted due to their inability to retreat effectively. Maybe this will change when the tac net changes are implemented in 1.4 and stealth/scanning becomes more important. Given my death rate in matches, I almost never run proto because it's just too expensive. I have proto suit skills for the bonuses though. I can't speak for heavies or logis, but I could see one needing to invest a lot there as well (same for vehicles). I guess in reality the only ones that have it 'easy' in terms of SP investment required to cost effectively stomp are assaults? There's something cool about a tanked scout, you can do quick damage, receive heavy damage and get away, just barely--but get away. Also no scout likes dying, so the extra health always helps! One basic armor plate was saving my gal alot. Matt, if you have pro scout and what range enhancers do you have? Do you spot enemies in the 2nd circle of the mini-map? I would figure that knowing where the enemy is will keep you alive. If I'm a non-combat role, what the hell am I suppose to do right now? I don't want to use modules for health though, I want to use them for scoutly stuff. In the end, there's something rewarding about playing as a scout. Specialized Creative Operator Using Tactics.
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 96	Posted - 2013.08.23 06:45:00 - [48] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Niuvo wrote: This sure as hell sucks, no one but the scout community understands this. We choose a different path then the rest and get the shaft. Non-sense. I want to play differently and still kick ass! Good post Ghost, The kin cats don't cost a lot of isk though. But they are PG intensive and on the top of the scale SP wise for a base skill - thats (the 2nd part mostly) is probably what he meant. Man, I have all supporting skills like engineering, electronics and core dropsuits at 5 and still I can hardly fit my advanced scout correctly. I actually have to remove the sidearm to fit the complex kinetic catalyzer which I will get today. My minni advanced scout has CPU of 211 and a PG of 55.
Vargralor Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2013.08.23 07:09:00 - [49] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Because we need to go into biotic skills, along with the core skills the assaults go with. And heavys trying to run faster never, ever invest in biotic skills?? EVERYONE does sooner or later not just scouts. Sure, everyone wants those skills sooner or later but scout suits speed tank (usually) due to their crap shields and armour. For an Assault suit to unlock basic shield extenders you need Dropsuit Upgrades to lvl 2, Shield Upgrades to lvl 1and Shield Extenders to lvl 1 for a total of around 54,000 SP. For a Scout suit to unlock basic KinCats you need Dropsuit Upgrades to lvl 4, Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades to lvl 5, and Kinetic Catalyzation to lvl 1 for a total of around 720,000 SP. This is just for your basic survival modules for the suit.
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 352	Posted - 2013.08.23 07:22:00 - [50] - Quote Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are.

Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 391	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:51:00 - [51] - Quote Do you guys think that the scout suit is for real players, those that don't go for the easy mode kills. Can anyone do good in a scout suit? Is this truly hard mode or are we making it seem so? Can people switch to the scout suit and do well or are we just good in a whole different way of playing? How awesome it will be to guide new scouts, new to New Eden?
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 98	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:10:00 - [52] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Do you guys think that the scout suit is for real players, those that don't go for the easy mode kills. Can anyone do good in a scout suit? Is this truly hard mode or are we making it seem so? Can people switch to the scout suit and do well or are we just good in a whole different way of playing? How awesome it will be to guide new scouts, new to New Eden? Well I am actually getting a lot of positive kd's in my scout nowadays. But i often change to logi halfway through the match.
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 276	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:29:00 - [53] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Okay, I went and did some fitting optimization on a Proto Minmatar scout. Here are the stats for it. Minmatar Scout MK.0 Shields: 270 Armor: 70 eHP: 340 Speed: 9.35 m/s Stamina: 441 Profile: 33.75 Weapon: Proto Knives Sidearm: Ishukone Assault Sub Grenade: Basic Flux Equipment: ADV Quantum Scanner 2x Complex Shields 1x Complex Kincat 1x Complex Stamina This seems like the ideal Proto Scout build. And probably the only way to run a PC with one. Here is the problem though, that fitting uses 296 CPU and 75 PG. The Problem? The Proto scout suit only has 230 CPU and 60 PG as its base. In order to run this suit, you have to spend SP in Maximizing your CPU and PG and minimizing the cost of your equipment. The cost? 13,446,560 SP Yeah. That's way to much. Why? Because you have to spend the SP on the following: Roughly 3 mil to get proto suit another 3 to get CPU and PG maxed 3 more for proto speed and stamina 1.5 for shields so roughly 10.5 mil goes into just those skills. Whatever is left goes into your Proto knives and Proto SMG. If they were to boost the CPU/PG on the scout suit by 10-20% they would effectively reduce the SP cost to use this suit by almost 3.2 mil. OR EVEN BETTER: GIVE ME AN EXTRA LOW SLOT Seriously, that would go toward a CPU boost and solve this whole damn problem. Feel free to troll, lol, debate, and agree as you feel necessary. most of my sniper suits dont even have a secondary nor do they have nano hives or anything els...
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 378	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:14:00 - [54] - Quote Niuvo wrote: There's something cool about a tanked scout, you can do quick damage, receive heavy damage and get away, just barely--but get away. Also no scout likes dying, so the extra health always helps! One basic armor plate was saving my gal alot. Matt, if you have pro scout and what range enhancers do you have? Do you spot enemies in the 2nd circle of the mini-map? I would figure that knowing where the enemy is will keep you alive. If I'm a non-combat role, what the hell am I suppose to do right now? I don't want to use modules for health though, I want to use them for scoutly stuff. In the end, there's something rewarding about playing as a scout. Specialized Creative Operator Using Tactics. It is nice having some additional armor, that's for sure - but it only works well for me when I am running with a squad of assaults and I'm using my scout suit as more of an assault type suit. In terms of my scanning fits, I typically go with 2 enhanced range extenders which gives me range to about 41m, which is inside the middle circle on the TAC net. it's helpful but with no armor recharge or speed mods, I need to be really careful about where I am relative to the enemies (and I can't pick up other scouts with my precision anyway so it's still risky). It's a good fit for sniper hunting but still I'd almost always have greater mobility. I typically use these mods on my STD suit, I die so frequently using Proto just doesn't make a whole lot of sense many times.
Yan Darn DUST University Ivy League 28	Posted - 2013.08.23 19:46:00 - [55] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are. o7 I think part of the issue is that additional SP sinks for scouts just don't pay off as well as core skills do for assaults. Our speed is still relatively lol worthy compared to Minnie assaults (especially since I'm a Gal scout so...) and sensor skills/modules kinda don't mean much when passive scanning...is what it is. Hacking is as expensive as electronics and engineering...it is very tempting to play a recon min-logi. Good job scouts can jump the highest...take that from me though and...well I don't want to contemplate the consequences...
Mechoj Nomreps Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 99	Posted - 2013.08.24 12:11:00 - [56] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Scout is the only dropsuit class worth playing in this entire game. The mainstream Medium dropsuit wielding an Assault Rifle is Boring with a capital B! If I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be playing this game because a lot of other games do that style of gameplay a whole lot better. The real fun is in the niche gameplay. You all know who you are. Just got my complex kinteic katalysers yesterday. Adds again to the fun :)
Aisha Ctarl The Generals EoN. 1101	Posted - 2013.08.24 12:26:00 - [57] - Quote As a scout, I approve of this message. I currently have both CPU and PG skills at 3 and it is painful to fit a good scout.


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