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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
332
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:So the guys doing the balancing are not the same people who work on frame rate and performance. Fortunately this means we can work on both at the same time.
I would expect to see performance improvements in the patch notes for almost every release this year. It is a high priority for us. But you should not do both at the sametime. Null I understand that you guys are trying to get things back on par, but this type of issue is more like a: Part A must be achieved before Part B can begin kinda get my point Except that you are not going to see a defining moment like you suggest, that suddenly performance and hit detection are "fixed". They will always be iterated upon and delaying balance work is just going to waste time and prevent us getting valuable feedback early. What you suggest sounds good in practice but it's just not the way that progress is made.
Normally this would be correct. However, I would argue that core aiming is so bad right not that weapon balance would be counter productive.
For example, I do not even know if AR sharp shooter is productive skill to have. The aiming is so inconsistent right now that I don't even know if the decrease in dispersion helps or even exists.
Secondly, I am not looking for some defining moment. All I am asking for is the basics, not having to fight my controller to kill things. Chromosome was the basics sure it could use improvements, but it would not of affected weapon balancing.
Bottom line is that team is balancing weapons on flawed core mechanics. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
different departments.... why would any other part of ccp stop, have a cup of tea and a biscuit while the guys working on the frame rates etc work on that problem. its nothing to do with them. getting them to join in on fixing a problem they know nothing about would do more harm than good.
different departments have their own problems to fix inc balancing their own work
next you will be saying "frame rates are fine, why are you not working on new content" |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
sammus420 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote: Even it is currently being held back by the projectile bug, so how can you expect accurate fixes?
They'll just "fix" stuff until they find a broken system that works for the player base. After we get used to that for a few months, they'll "fix" the broken system, which will make the weapons work "as expected" which will have the effect of breaking them for the player base.
*Buffs MD to make up for bad aim, hit detection, and projectile performance* MD users: Yay!
Months later * Fix bad aim, hit detection, and projectile performance*
Everyone else: MDs are OP
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:different departments.... why would any other part of ccp stop, have a cup of tea and a biscuit while the guys working on the frame rates etc work on that problem. its nothing to do with them. getting them to join in on fixing a problem they know nothing about would do more harm than good.
different departments have their own problems to fix.
next you will be saying "frame rates are fine, why are you not working on new content" So we should buff ARs because, according to our feedback, they take too long to kill. Even though the long TTKs were caused by the boinked aiming system, and not the weapons stats?
That makes perfect sense |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:different departments.... why would any other part of ccp stop, have a cup of tea and a biscuit while the guys working on the frame rates etc work on that problem. its nothing to do with them. getting them to join in on fixing a problem they know nothing about would do more harm than good.
different departments have their own problems to fix.
next you will be saying "frame rates are fine, why are you not working on new content" So we should buff ARs because, according to our feedback, they take too long to kill. Even though the long TTKs were caused by the boinked aiming system, and not the weapon's stats? That makes perfect sense Lets also give MDs a 12 m blast radius
i have no idea how that in anyway has bearing on what i said. actually i have no idea what your going on about
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
1693
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Some crazy hit detection issues with Nova Knives and Shotguns. Nothing like getting a hit indicator and wondering if the spread went around the target or if the game is just lieing.
That being said, Id rather them fix the weapons before the aiming because no amount of aiming solutions is going to fix the Laser Rifle. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Some crazy hit detection issues with Nova Knives and Shotguns. Nothing like getting a hit indicator and wondering if the spread went around the target or if the game is just lieing.
That being said, Id rather them fix the weapons before the aiming because no amount of aiming solutions is going to fix the Laser Rifle. Sure it is, just change ADS back to how it used to be. Or were there any other changes besides fixing the broken proto variant? |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
484
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Some crazy hit detection issues with Nova Knives and Shotguns. Nothing like getting a hit indicator and wondering if the spread went around the target or if the game is just lieing.
That being said, Id rather them fix the weapons before the aiming because no amount of aiming solutions is going to fix the Laser Rifle.
This is in one of the worst opinions I've ever seen on the forums.
Grats? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:different departments.... why would any other part of ccp stop, have a cup of tea and a biscuit while the guys working on the frame rates etc work on that problem. its nothing to do with them. getting them to join in on fixing a problem they know nothing about would do more harm than good.
different departments have their own problems to fix.
next you will be saying "frame rates are fine, why are you not working on new content" So we should buff ARs because, according to our feedback, they take too long to kill. Even though the long TTKs were caused by the boinked aiming system, and not the weapon's stats? That makes perfect sense Lets also give MDs a 12 m blast radius i have no idea how that in anyway has bearing on what i said. actually i have no idea what your going on about Then why are you posting in this thread? Because everything I said is relevant to THIS THREAD, and if you think it's not, then you don't understand what the OP is talking about.
Let me make things simple for you, trying to fix weapon balance without fixing core mechanics first is a bad move, it's that easy.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Then why are you posting in this thread? Because everything I said is relevant to THIS THREAD, and if you think it's not, then you don't understand what the OP is talking about.
Let me make things simple for you, trying to fix weapon balance, without fixing core mechanics first, is a bad move, it's that easy.
the way i see it your asking ccp to stop working on everything while they fix framerate issues which the minority are experiencing. meanwhile the ones not having problems have to suffer on from unbalanced items and not recieving new content (after all how can you stop balancing without stopping new content which would effect ballance). |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
There's two guys, both wearing Proto Caldari Assault suits and wielding Duvolls ARs, they're also both strafing in a figure 8 pattern. They spend the next two minutes trying to kill each other before an LAV comes and ends their misery.
What was the problem here? Was it
A) ARs are UP, buff them B) Proto Assault suits are OP, nerf them C) Strafing is OP, nerf movement speeds D) Aiming suck at the moment, fix before any other changes.
Or E) A combination of the above, should still fix D first just to make sure feedback is as accurate as possible. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
528
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:There's two guys, both wearing Proto Caldari Assault suits and wielding Duvolls ARs, they're also both strafing in a figure 8 pattern. They spend the next two minutes trying to kill each other before an LAV comes and ends their misery.
What was the problem here? Was it
A) ARs are UP, buff them B) Proto Assault suits are OP, nerf them C) Strafing is OP, nerf movement speeds D) Aiming suck at the moment, fix before any other changes.
Or E) A combination of the above, should still fix D first just to make sure feedback is as accurate as possible.
or... F) They can't aim if 2 minutes of continuous fire and still neither one dies. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 02:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:There's two guys, both wearing Proto Caldari Assault suits and wielding Duvolls ARs, they're also both strafing in a figure 8 pattern. They spend the next two minutes trying to kill each other before an LAV comes and ends their misery.
What was the problem here? Was it
A) ARs are UP, buff them B) Proto Assault suits are OP, nerf them C) Strafing is OP, nerf movement speeds D) Aiming suck at the moment, fix before any other changes.
Or E) A combination of the above, should still fix D first just to make sure feedback is as accurate as possible. or... F) They can't aim if 2 minutes of continuous fire and still neither one dies. It was an exaggeration obviously, but the current aiming system is still worse than what we had in Chromosome. At least give us the option to turn off turn acceleration, which complete screws up muscle memory. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:There's two guys, both wearing Proto Caldari Assault suits and wielding Duvolls ARs, they're also both strafing in a figure 8 pattern. They spend the next two minutes trying to kill each other before an LAV comes and ends their misery.
What was the problem here? Was it
A) ARs are UP, buff them B) Proto Assault suits are OP, nerf them C) Strafing is OP, nerf movement speeds D) Aiming suck at the moment, fix before any other changes.
Or E) A combination of the above, should still fix D first just to make sure feedback is as accurate as possible.
there is a right weapon for every job. AR at close range against moving targets = bad aim so is the wrong weapon but thats down to the person wielding the weapon and not an issue to fix. now if you said you were close range with a SM and were missing shots then i would accept that as an aiming issue |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2073
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:There's two guys, both wearing Proto Caldari Assault suits and wielding Duvolls ARs, they're also both strafing in a figure 8 pattern. They spend the next two minutes trying to kill each other before an LAV comes and ends their misery.
What was the problem here? Was it
A) ARs are UP, buff them B) Proto Assault suits are OP, nerf them C) Strafing is OP, nerf movement speeds D) Aiming suck at the moment, fix before any other changes.
Or E) A combination of the above, should still fix D first just to make sure feedback is as accurate as possible. there is a right weapon for every job. AR at close range against moving targets = bad aim so is the wrong weapon but thats down to the person wielding the weapon and not an issue to fix. now if you said you were close range with a SM and were missing shots then i would accept that as an aiming issue So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
656
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:So the guys doing the balancing are not the same people who work on frame rate and performance. Fortunately this means we can work on both at the same time.
I would expect to see performance improvements in the patch notes for almost every release this year. It is a high priority for us. But you should not do both at the sametime. Null I understand that you guys are trying to get things back on par, but this type of issue is more like a: Part A must be achieved before Part B can begin kinda get my point Except that you are not going to see a defining moment like you suggest, that suddenly performance and hit detection are "fixed". They will always be iterated upon and delaying balance work is just going to waste time and prevent us getting valuable feedback early. What you suggest sounds good in practice but it's just not the way that progress is made.
This is just such a flawed argument it gives me a headache No one is asking for some mythical idea of "perfect" but only something that is acceptable and works as it should, Chromosome had problems but aiming and hit detection were what I would consider in the acceptable range
This idea of constantly tweaking and adjusting these core mechanics is asinine, Im sure one of you on the dev team has heard the phrase "if it aint broke dont fix it" Find something that works and then leave it the **** alone, dont mess things up just to tell people "Look, we are still working on it" |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
60
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay.
no i'm not denying their is a problem. i'm simply stating that stopping progression because the few are experiencing a problem is not the way to go about it. having a few more peoples points of view on balancing issues when the majority of people are experiencing these balancing issues will achieve nothing more than it already does.
if 9 people out of 10 say there is an issue with an item that requires rebalancing and the other person is having framerate issues or aiming issues which prevent him/her from stating weather there is an issue then ccp are going to go with the majority. yes there might be a real problem with that player which compounds the problem with the problem item but seeing as the balancing is based on the majority then any framerate issues or aim issues are irellivent |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2074
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Chromosome had problems but aiming and hit detection were what I would consider in the acceptable range
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2074
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay. no i'm not denying their is a problem. i'm simply stating that stopping progression because the few are experiencing a problem is not the way to go about it. having a few more peoples points of view on balancing issues when the majority of people are experiencing these balancing issues will achieve nothing more than it already does. if 9 people out of 10 say there is an issue with an item that requires rebalancing and the other person is having framerate issues or aiming issues which prevent him/her from stating weather there is an issue then ccp are going to go with the majority. yes there might be a real problem with that player which compounds the problem with the problem item but seeing as the balancing is based on the majority then any framerate issues or aim issues are irellivent Ughh... this is not something that is happening to a few people, it happened to everyone.
They took the old aiming system and tried to make some 'improvements" to it, these improvements made the aiming far worse than it's ever been.
This is not a bug that randomly happens to a few select players, this is CCP touching something they should left alone. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2075
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
What we don't want to do is compensate for these problem by buffing weapons, that's it.
An example of compensating for a problem
Quote:* Increased radius for nanite injector revival This is fine, it does nothing to screw up weapon balance, but if the patch notes had said
Quote:*increased splash radius on weapons to make up for poor server to client performance of projectile based weaponry Then there would be a problem.
Sometimes weapons have problems aside from just their stats, those should be a priority. |
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
61
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay. no i'm not denying their is a problem. i'm simply stating that stopping progression because the few are experiencing a problem is not the way to go about it. having a few more peoples points of view on balancing issues when the majority of people are experiencing these balancing issues will achieve nothing more than it already does. if 9 people out of 10 say there is an issue with an item that requires rebalancing and the other person is having framerate issues or aiming issues which prevent him/her from stating weather there is an issue then ccp are going to go with the majority. yes there might be a real problem with that player which compounds the problem with the problem item but seeing as the balancing is based on the majority then any framerate issues or aim issues are irellivent Ughh... this is not something that is happening to a few people, it happened to everyone. They took the old aiming system and tried to make some 'improvements" to it, these improvements made the aiming far worse than it's ever been. This is not a bug that randomly happens to a few select players, this is CCP touching something they should left alone.
i have experienced no issues i didn't expect to have. and you only have to look at how long the thread is to gauge how much issue people have. aiming is the most important thing in a fps and if it was that bad the forums and this post would be swamped but they are not |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
656
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay. no i'm not denying their is a problem. i'm simply stating that stopping progression because the few are experiencing a problem is not the way to go about it. having a few more peoples points of view on balancing issues when the majority of people are experiencing these balancing issues will achieve nothing more than it already does. if 9 people out of 10 say there is an issue with an item that requires rebalancing and the other person is having framerate issues or aiming issues which prevent him/her from stating weather there is an issue then ccp are going to go with the majority. yes there might be a real problem with that player which compounds the problem with the problem item but seeing as the balancing is based on the majority then any framerate issues or aim issues are irellivent Ughh... this is not something that is happening to a few people, it happened to everyone. They took the old aiming system and tried to make some 'improvements" to it, these improvements made the aiming far worse than it's ever been. This is not a bug that randomly happens to a few select players, this is CCP touching something they should left alone. i have experienced no issues i didn't expect to have. and you only have to look at how long the thread is to gauge how much issue people have. aiming is the most important thing in a fps and if it was that bad the forums and this post would be swamped but they are not
You are discounting the make up of the playerbase, many of eve players whose last FPS experience was a decade or more ago so they dont notice any difference since its all they know now Others who have played a wider variety of games or have played more FPS games in general see the problem like a flashing light And hell then when you get to the forum itself most of the posters come from the first group and are more concerned with blaming the phantom of assault players for everything and crying OP since surprise surprise their experience is out of date and others have better playing ability |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2075
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 03:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=Aim&forumID=728
There's plenty of threads https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88081 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=74613 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75436
Also
CCP Eterne wrote:
They don't need Mintchip to tell them. Aiming is a priority to fix, it's just more complicated than could be done in the current patch cycle.
As you can see, it is a problem. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
657
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
That reminds me, where is our community manager or whatever the hell shes supposed to be? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
2075
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:That reminds me, where is our community manager or whatever the hell shes supposed to be? Beats me *shrug* |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
657
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Delta 749 wrote:That reminds me, where is our community manager or whatever the hell shes supposed to be? Beats me *shrug*
Thats really disappointing |
Kane Fyea
DUST University Ivy League
498
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Delta 749 wrote:That reminds me, where is our community manager or whatever the hell shes supposed to be? Beats me *shrug* Thats really disappointing I think we scared her off already.... Lol... |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
434
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:So you're going to deny that there's a problem with the aim and instead go with "get gud scrubs"(It's not the way you put it, but it is essentially what you're saying), okay. no i'm not denying their is a problem. i'm simply stating that stopping progression because the few are experiencing a problem is not the way to go about it. having a few more peoples points of view on balancing issues when the majority of people are experiencing these balancing issues will achieve nothing more than it already does. if 9 people out of 10 say there is an issue with an item that requires rebalancing and the other person is having framerate issues or aiming issues which prevent him/her from stating weather there is an issue then ccp are going to go with the majority. yes there might be a real problem with that player which compounds the problem with the problem item but seeing as the balancing is based on the majority then any framerate issues or aim issues are irellivent Ughh... this is not something that is happening to a few people, it happened to everyone. They took the old aiming system and tried to make some 'improvements" to it, these improvements made the aiming far worse than it's ever been. This is not a bug that randomly happens to a few select players, this is CCP touching something they should left alone. i have experienced no issues i didn't expect to have. and you only have to look at how long the thread is to gauge how much issue people have. aiming is the most important thing in a fps and if it was that bad the forums and this post would be swamped but they are not
Ignorance of a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hate to break it to anyone who is reading this post but id say well over 80% of the playerbase is just bad at aiming a gun. I mean even a little side step strafe is enough to make most players simply miss you and empty their entire clip and still barely get into your armor(i armor tank btw). Those who do know how to aim or have played shooters as their genre of choice know exactly how bad the aim and hit detection are. |
Kay High
The Lions Guard
104
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 04:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
if you guys think the framerates and Aiming is bad you didn't play last year during the E3 build, or during Replication right after Fanfest with the hard freezes. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1409
|
Posted - 2013.06.30 10:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:So the guys doing the balancing are not the same people who work on frame rate and performance. Fortunately this means we can work on both at the same time.
I would expect to see performance improvements in the patch notes for almost every release this year. It is a high priority for us. But... the aiming system... and hit detection... Like... what if a gun only seems unbalanced because of bad mechanics, such as the MD? Is it the projectile bug that's holding MDs back, or is it it's stats, we don't know, and therefore we shouldn't be making changes to it. But fixing the lag might fix the hit detection. |
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