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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1059
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Point of this is simple : CCP needs to stop giving out rewards in hilariously small quantities, which can never be earned again.
Examples : 'Quafe' scout suits. Black eagle suits. State protectorate/Fed defense suits.
CCP runs cool events, gives us like 10-25 of these suits, and then there is never a chance to earn them again. This doesn't make them a reward, this makes them a collectible trophy. In my mind, that is utter crap. Firstly, because it means no one really wants to use them for fear of not having them later. Secondly, because in a game where someone can lose all of those suits within hours... a quantity of 10-25 for a 'reward' is more of a slap in the face.
There are two solutions :
- Run more events, making these suits less unique but more available.
- Add an ability to restock 'unique' suits at a significantly increased price. (Maybe a use for LP later)
I don't feel the solutions are mutually exclusive, and while I prefer the second option, I'd love it if there was more events.
As an added bonus....Adding an option to restock items like this, also opens up the ability to 'fix' the LAV bpo blunder. (Referring to CCP offering standard level bpo's of LAV for various events and microtransaction packs) This allows for CCP to address the roadkilling issue with free LAV, yet lets people who 'paid/earned for them' to still have their unique vehicles for posterity.
This could even be extended to normal bpo's as a whole, but inverted. Having a BPO could make something drastically cheaper instead. That's a point for a separate topic though, I think.
The point is :
I want to see rewards that are actually rewarding, and practical to use. Paying a bit more ISK to maintain that special flair is definitely worth it, and otherwise, it's kind of a waste of dev-time to make suits, items, and vehicles that barely anyone will ever use because they are collectibles :(
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Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
1017
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Posted - 2013.06.24 22:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good idea, but contrary to what CCP does in general. CCP likes collectibles to use a trophy, as you don't get the same trophies other games give.
Personally, I'm ok with this. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
505
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Posted - 2013.06.24 23:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1
I love the Black Eagle, but it really is just a trophy.
The fact that I cannot replenish/replace it makes it a USELESS trophy.
If we were present for the event, and we got the item as a reward, then access to repurchase it should be ours exclusively, at least until the next event, where more people could potentially get access to it.
For now, it takes up space.
I'm not against BPOs being permanent "coupons" of some sort, but the price reduction given from them should be substantial (greater than 50%) for their equivalent item in the market.
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Good idea, but contrary to what CCP does in general. CCP likes collectibles to use a trophy, as you don't get the same trophies other games give.
Personally, I'm ok with this.
Well, I'm not ok with this.
It's an annoyance to have something you can't make reasonable use of. If I have a "trophy" for participation in some event, then I should be able to show it off in a match indefinitely provided i'm willing to pay the price. How else am I going to be able to show-it-off, if it's in constant danger of permanent, irreplaceable loss? |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
24
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
To my knowledge, CCP has never given out a renewable unique resource in the history of eve. Every guardian vexor, every utu, adrestia, Apocalypse imperial issue, every luxury yacht and gold magnate has been a finite resource. Every one that's destroyed is gone forever. The downside for dust is, you can undock such a ship (at great risk), you can spin it in your hangar, you can enjoy it in some sense. In Dust you can sort of do the same thing, although joining a battle is the equivalent of undocking, so you're at a bit of a disadvantage.
The problem with making such ships renewable is that it both destroys their uniqueness, lowering their value, and its a source of grief for players lucky enough to participate in in-space live events. I guess with dust events the unfairness factor is much lower, but the fact remains that making these items renewable for one person makes them infinitely available for everyone. Making them 'very expensive' doesn't change that.
My biggest concern is that such items offer improved performance over available items. If the Quafe scout suit is just a reskin of the gallente basic one, then a lot of the objections to your proposal lose their wind. However, they would still need to somehow be rendered non-tradable. But then they aren't collectors items anymore, just trophies. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
112
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Posted - 2013.06.25 01:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
the op doesn't understand how the 'collectible' aspect of eve works. eventually those small small quantities will make them very valuable. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
866
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 02:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
-1
These rewards are collectors items not replacements for your everyday fitting.
I like how it works now. I hope CCP doesn't change it.
As for restocking these suits? Why hard cap the value? Why make something 'exclusive' available at a set price? :/ |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T
EoN.
224
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Posted - 2013.06.25 02:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
How about this, rather than events(only one worth while is x2/3 xp) giving these suits out as rewards, which the OP is correct, these are actually collectables. How about we add these suits and as possible salvage for the victors of factional warefare, but link them to their races. That way there is at least some reason dust side to run factional warfare, other than try to load you entire corp into 1 team.
This can include - special dropsuits, weapons, maybe cool little modules.
just a thought. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1062
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Posted - 2013.06.25 02:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
low genius wrote:the op doesn't understand how the 'collectible' aspect of eve works. eventually those small small quantities will make them very valuable.
I know exactly how it works, and that's what I want to avoid. Stuff like the AT prizes for example. Every year there is 50 ships given out, and once they're gone, they're gone. Only a few are ballsy enough to actually use them. They're essentially wasted development assets.
They shouldn't be everyday replacements, but they should be there for people who want to show off that they have them. I've said it in the past, that ISK is a poor barrier, but it's a logical one in this case... As long as the 'reward' is not something that is exceptionally better than ISK variants. (Officer level 'rewards' should not be re-stockable and should be available only in events or as salvage... but those events shouldn't only happen once every few months)
But for stuff like the black eagle scout (Which is in many ways worse than militia level suits) there's no reason not to allow people to keep using those... for a price.
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Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
168
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Posted - 2013.06.25 02:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
don't the Black Eagle Scout have the Shotgun and AR as weapons? |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1814
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 19:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have piles of interesting reward suits; the only ones I actually ever use are the skinweaves, since they're BPO.
I really want to use my Black Eagle scout suits (AR as a sidearm, lol) but I also don't want to waste it. |
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Elena Peoples
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
11
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
I like the fact that stuff like that comes in small quantities, makes owning them worth something. I've made a habit eve side of collecting ships of all sorts,(then selling one or two for 2-4 times the amount a year down the line (as long as I got more then one)) and intend to do the same here when the market becomes available(with suits of course) Having these things restockable would kill any value they had very quickly. Example, the pirate rookie frigates eve side, sure they're useless stat wise. not really any better then the slandered rookie ships. But still limited and thus valuable to own. Plus it makes it very sad when something like them vanishes from the game, which is a good thing. I will never be able to own a Golden Magnate, as none exist anymore, nor will it ever again. |
Sardonk Eternia
Multnomah Interstellar Holdings Inc.
97
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Posted - 2013.06.28 19:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think all event reward suits should be BPO and purely cosmetic in nature. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
30
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Posted - 2013.06.28 20:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
low genius wrote:the op doesn't understand how the 'collectible' aspect of eve works. eventually those small small quantities will make them very valuable.
This would be great if you could, well, I don't know, trade them? |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
775
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Posted - 2013.06.28 20:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote: I want to see rewards that are actually rewarding, and practical to use. Paying a bit more ISK to maintain that special flair is definitely worth it, and otherwise, it's kind of a waste of dev-time to make suits, items, and vehicles that barely anyone will ever use because they are collectibles :(
Hmmm... I'm not sure they are a waste of time.. I do know that I will never actually use any of the suits I earned from events. those Caldari Prime event suits are going to be stuffed in my inventory forever until I sell all but 1 of each when the market opens for big profit.
I figured they were just for favoriting so you could have your forum avatar and Warbarge avatar walking around in the suit to show off. Big surprise to me when I realized my forum avatar would be ol triangle head over here.
[Edit]: However I do know what you mean. I think it is neat how they gave out the [Exile] for a special event. its the same as the standard AR, but just having the name show up is kinda worth it. It would be kinda cool if you had a like Blueprint Editor.
Example.
Say the reward is a special Advanced Assault Rifle, well lets say that once you get the item, every time you go to the market you can keep buying the regular AAR to restock your special AAR. so you don't have to worry about BPO creep, you are still paying for the item, but you do get to keep your special gun which appears again and again on the kill boards.
And when the market goes up, you have 1 copy of your Blueprint editor to sell, but if you sell it. All your special rifles go away, you can't store them. |
Dirks Macker
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2013.06.28 20:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Oso Peresoso wrote:To my knowledge, CCP has never given out a renewable unique resource in the history of eve.
I wasn't around for it, but I think T2 BPO's fall into that category.
As for the OP's idea, I like it. Along with a set number of items as an event reward, possibly give an item that unlocks the ability to buy the item at very high npc isk prices or equivalent aurum prices. When player trading becomes available, people could sell that item which gives access. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
44
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Posted - 2013.06.28 23:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dirks Macker wrote:Oso Peresoso wrote:To my knowledge, CCP has never given out a renewable unique resource in the history of eve. I wasn't around for it, but I think T2 BPO's fall into that category.
Close but not quite. T2 BPOs let you create ships that can be accessed by other means. And t2 bpo's themselves are not renewable. And CCP promised never to do such a thing like that again anyway. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
2944
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 23:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sounds nice, but I disagree about restocking them at an increased price. Perhaps as long as we're getting more of the same reward during certain events, I won't see a problem with it. My only concern is the possibility of seeing these rewards become cheapened with excess. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1007
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 00:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Right now, there are three different types of items.
1. ISK bought bpc
2. BPOs
3. collectible/officer.
I like having items that I know i'll be able to sell when the player market opens up for gobs of ISK, These are cool rewards as you can either use them yourself, wear one in the warbage and be super pretty, or sell them. It's better than just a chunk of cash as you have options on how to use it.
I would like to see a 4th type of item added in Dust. the "faction" item. Slightly better or specialized ( a Royal marines SCR that deals less damage but has the same high headshot multiplier as the pistol, for example) that you can get from events or LP.
I'd also like to see another BPO event reward. That'll be something that'll have people logging on. and not another AR bpo. Seriously. I've got 3 exiles already. |
Skipper Jones
Red Star.
EoN.
179
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Posted - 2013.06.29 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
You're right, I do use them up in about an hour or so. The only suits I still have are the Quafe Scout suits. I liked the closed beta events though. Weapons week- where I got my Exile Ar. The event where I got my 'skimweave' suits. There should be more events like that |
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD
139
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 00:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
of issues of the game, you identified non-issues
and I support ccp with keeping limited edition suits limited edition. I would like coloration of suits to be customizable, especially the horrible choice of having specialized suites white, green, and yellow.
I think the suit varients described in events could be a peminant unlocked skin, not a suit, that way you could use it with any fancy racial suit you have in the future.
That or if they are intended to be limited edition, keep them that way. |
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Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1011
|
Posted - 2013.06.29 04:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Patoman Radiant wrote:
I think the suit varients described in events could be a peminant unlocked skin, not a suit, that way you could use it with any fancy racial suit you have in the future..
a permanent skin would be freaking sweet.
You know, like a solid gold Amarr assault with etchings |
Lightning Bolt2
DUST University
Ivy League
23
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Posted - 2013.06.29 07:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Doyle Reese wrote:don't the Black Eagle Scout have the Shotgun and AR as weapons?
the black eagle scout is my Idea of the commando dropsuit 
and i'd LOVE the colors to be unlocked as long as you had the event item, then I'd need an event mimitar scout |
Gigatron Prime
The.Primes
84
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Posted - 2013.06.30 06:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
I like the idea of collectibles. Their main use for me is to look good in the warbarge really. Not for combat. |
Atikali Havendoorr
HERBGROWERS
28
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Posted - 2013.07.07 01:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Haven't bothered to read the whole thread, but i certainly don't get the Evertards argument that it should be this ridiculously limited 'cause it's a collectible'. Okay..? Serious? IN-GAME COLLECTIBLE? Just to show off..? I thought I was a nerd... And absolutely most of all, WHAT'S THE DARN POINT WHEN THERE IS NO VIABLE WAY TO SHOW IT OFF? This is totally beyond me. If there were some kind of war barge thing without battle commitment, Playstation Home like, I could mildly understand. Or if one could see it in when people check out the profile. I don't know how exactly it works in Eve, but as far as I know, you can glide around in some more or less safe area. But in Dust the only way is to do battle. You'll waste them in no time. And no-one will notice. This is regardless of if/when trading comes around.
No. Make them usefull. Just like the OP suggested. |
Fire of Prometheus
Solaris Space Marines
8
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 20:17:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sardonk Eternia wrote:I think all event reward suits should be BPO and purely cosmetic in nature.
You sir are a genius, they shouldn't be full fits but perhaps just a cosmetically different drop suit depending on how successful you were in said event.
E.g. The event is score as many points as you can in a week (for lack of a better example)
Tier 1 (a basic version of the drop suit) between 5,000-7,500 points scored
Tier 2 (advanced version of the drop suit) between 7,501-15,000 points scored
Tier 3 (prototype version of the suit but not quite equal to the isk variant) 15,000+ points |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1173
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 06:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
BPO's of the suits themselves (Especially if we're talking about higher than standard level) is a pretty bad idea, IMO.
BPO's are bad enough as-is, because beyond the initial 'cost' of acquiring them, they're essentially free forever. I have a post on why this is bad, if you search for it.
Moving more towards "BPO Skins" like suggested above allows CCP to make visual flair rewards that can be applied to their suit of choice, which is a much better option. That, or sticking with the current option of keeping these rewards consumable is much more viable than risky development choices like creating BPO's of higher than standard level.
On this note, though... We actually just had a meeting with CCP's event team, and I'm feeling pretty happy about what they brought to us regarding events for the next few months. During the meeting and in our internal forums afterwards, we had a pretty excellent discussion about ways they could possibly run events like those in the past to keep an infusion of these 'special suits' into the game, in a much more awesome way than in the past. While nothing's been solid confirmed yet... I'm pretty damn optimistic about what the Events team will bring us in the future now.
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IR Scifi
Silver Talon Corporation
52
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Posted - 2013.07.20 17:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dirks Macker wrote:Oso Peresoso wrote:To my knowledge, CCP has never given out a renewable unique resource in the history of eve. I wasn't around for it, but I think T2 BPO's fall into that category.
They did and it was a horrible idea that took them WAY too long to rectify. Depending on the BPO you basically ended up with an officially licensed CCP-brand isk printer.
I'm against making them all BPO's but bumping up the numbers a bit (the current 100 count looks good) would be perfectly fine. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
Covert Intervention
1321
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 17:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 to Quote: Run more events, making these suits less unique but more available.
Add an ability to restock 'unique' suits at a significantly increased price. (Maybe a use for LP later)
and a big fat -1 to tampering with BPOs retroactively decreasing the value of real money transactions.
The first is a great way to increase event participation and in game economic activity as well as incentivese FW participation in a more organized manner. The latter is a way to breach player trust in a newly released game and sour the market/reviews outside of the game in such a way that CCPs cash flow is diminished. The value of most BPOs is that they are BPOs not a "fancy" paint job. The vast majority of players I've spoken with have minimal, or no, interest in spending AUR for essentially cosmetic changes, forcing BPOs to become BPCs (yes even at "reduced price") diminishes/removes the actual traits/item value that motivated the purchase in the first place.
There should be a hardline limit on the meta level of any BPOs released. For example Dust doesn't need to ever see Proto level BPOs, but culling BPOs from the game completely after players have spent real money specifically to acquire those items? That's very bad policy.
0.02 ISK
Cross
EDIT: Just to be clear, my objections regarding BPOs are not applicable to future in game events. It is likely for the best if such events generally (or completely) cease to offer BPOs as rewards for participation. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
1175
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 17:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
[quote=Cross Atu]+1 to Quote:
There should be a hardline limit on the meta level of any BPOs released. For example Dust doesn't need to ever see Proto level BPOs, but culling BPOs from the game completely after players have spent real money specifically to acquire those items? That's very bad policy.
.
BPO's are bad policy. However, I agree. They can't simply remove them without having something adequate in place to make those purchases still have value. There's going to be a crowd who won't be pleased either way and will complain no matter what CCP does. But I'd much rather have CCP infuriate a small amount of people by doing the right thing than allow BPO's to continue to be a thing. It just encourages them to start making shadier and shadier steps towards P2W and other 'cash grabs'
Player stance on stuff like that needs to be firm and resolute to prevent CCP from getting any funny ideas. Permanent Cosmetic/vanity/Epeen purchases are fine. Permanent combat assets are not.
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Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
755
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 20:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:Cross Atu wrote:
There should be a hardline limit on the meta level of any BPOs released. For example Dust doesn't need to ever see Proto level BPOs, but culling BPOs from the game completely after players have spent real money specifically to acquire those items? That's very bad policy.
.
BPO's are bad policy. However, I agree. They can't simply remove them without having something adequate in place to make those purchases still have value. There's going to be a crowd who won't be pleased either way and will complain no matter what CCP does. But I'd much rather have CCP infuriate a small amount of people by doing the right thing than allow BPO's to continue to be a thing. It just encourages them to start making shadier and shadier steps towards P2W and other 'cash grabs' Player stance on stuff like that needs to be firm and resolute to prevent CCP from getting any funny ideas. Permanent Cosmetic/vanity/Epeen purchases are fine. Permanent combat assets are not. +1 to both as i think the BPO situation requires significant thought
During closed beta i expected BPOs to be a temporary solution for cosmetic items until the technology to apply a color pallete (BPO) to any suit/weapon (BPC) is implemented. For this reason i didn't expect the current BPO system to ever make it into the release state of the game and i am also convinced that they shouldn't ever have.
By bringing BPOs into the released game CCP created a potentionally huge problem, both for the economy and for game balance as no gear is properly balanced for being "free".
The latter is most apparent with LAVs as the BPOs cut the cost of spamming them by a huge margin, thus devaluating MLT/STD LAVs and increasing the need for AV weaponry to counter the spam.
The former will show itself when all items that have a BPO equivalent become less interesting to produce as the demand is artificially diminished by BPO owners, possibly making them more expensive for the remainder of the playerbase. Note that a feedback effect is possible as higher item prices increase the value and sales of BPOs that lead to even higher prices of BPCs.
The current BPO system has to go rather sooner than later as it has the potential to remove the manufactuing of STD tier gear from the game when demand becomes too low and prices uncompetitive against the superior ADV tier. Not being able to feasibly produce low tier items increases the barrier of entry for all trading and industry professions once they arrive.
Removing BPOs from the game and supplanting them with what are effectively 20k AUR paintjobs is detrimental to consumer trust and i understand that full refunds are out of question for several reasons. The sale and distribution of BPOs however should cease as soon as possible to prevent further damage to game balance and a potentionally important ingame market segment.
I am not convinced that cosmetic items would not be profitable if offered for a reasonable price. Many successful games offer purely cosmetic items as their primary income stream so it can be assumed that a general demand for low price paint jobs is there to be taken advantage of.
CCP should stop distributing low quantity high margin BPOs and instead introduce a range of custom skins that are priced at 2-5$ (4-10k AUR even less for simple flat colors) to allow a wide range of players to purchase them.
To gauge acceptance for these paint jobs CCP could introduce completely new ones in parallel to the current BPOs at first. This will help decide wether purely cosmetic items can provide a viable revenue stream.
Also worth considering is the option of DIY paint kits that allow individual players and ( for a higher price) whole corps to achieve a higher level of customization through a wide variety of patterns (camo, geometric and others) and colors for individual parts of the suits/weapons. This is especially interesting for corps as it strengthens corporate identity by having a unique and distinct appearance on the battlefield.
Corp patterns could be able to be set to either override or respect individual player colors so that more lax corporations can allow individual paint jobs on the battlefield.
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