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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5339
   |
Posted - 2013.06.20 11:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
You know the Drill.
Design/Change/Create from Scratch the Roles, purpose, functions, controls, whatever for our favorite flying bus.
Go. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
1210
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 11:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Implement WP and by extension isk rewards for dropship piloting.
Make them more durable.
Change turret AI so it doesn't splat them from across the other side of the map.
Generally make their role more worth using - perhaps instant spawns in mCRUs to increase power projection with a dropship would help.
Dropships would greatly benefit from larger maps and larger scale battles.
EDIT: While many have gotten used to the dropship controls, they aren't very intuitive to learn. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4458
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
1. Give them the ability to force eject passengers (but not in the red zone).
Sure there is potential for abuse, but pits the players' responsability to be careful where they spawn, the tactical benefits of forcibly deploying many teammates to attack an objective makes it worth it. Also, it makes mCRUs much more useful since ejecting players will allow more to spawn on the mCRU, and thus increase dropship usefulness to the team. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
682
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 11:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
I see alot of roles for the dropship. I am not talking about Fighters or Bombers here, but just the Dropship.
In my mind I see two versions, The first is the Transport Ship, its a cloakable troop transport with no weapons, its lightning fast but made of paper and you have to decloak to get the CRU part of the ship to work. This ship can get in, drop off your guys and get out and thats what it is there for. However it also can act as a mobile resupply point so it can land and gear up the troops and then take off. I also think it would really be cool if you could swap the cloak for hardened armor and turn it into a RDV, which can transport vehicles around the map. (Maps will really need to be bigger for this ship to be effective, even more so if they take away the ability to spawn on an objective.)
[Edit]: Also for the transport, I would like Sensors to really matter, if the enemy has a very high sensor rating they will be able to tag and see you even while cloaked, so then you also have to balance fitting some shield/speed modules with Sensor dampeners to keep from being shot down.
The second role I see for a Dropship is the Mobile Gun Platform. This thing should be extremely slow like a HAV, but able to fit powerful armor and mount numerous turrets along the sides and bottom of the ship. It shouldn't offer any cloak or resupply, and maybe not even a CRU, but it should pack enough armor and firepower to level just about anything. The balance to this ship would be turrets and Fighters, a measly Forge Gun should be able to eventually bring it down, but after numerous shots. I would make the PG/CPU layout so that you can make the ship almost invincible but only able to mount a full complement of machine gun turrets and maybe one anti-vehicle cannon, or you can make it just tough and mount a full assortment of death cannons.
As for incentives to fly one, I have been a supporter that if you are wearing a flight suit and your ship explodes then at the end of the match, if you got enough WP while in the ship, you get a free militia BPC version of the ship (No fittings or modules included). This prevents ISK farming abuses that would come from increasing the ISK payout of the suit.
As for WP, The transport ship should get points for CRU Spawns, Resupplies, and any Hack points if the hack takes place within about 30 seconds to 1 minute of dropping off a player, also a portion of any points made from kills from occupants while decloaked, or god forbid.... any kills made by vehicles while they are being transported. For the Gun Platform, bring on the kill points. |
Heavy Salvo
Ill Omens
EoN.
11
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Posted - 2013.06.20 11:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
1.Access to better turrets. not saying the things should have a large blaster turret sitting on each side but something like a medium turret would make the damn things more viable, especially if your using an assault where that small turret does little to nothing unless your running a prototype turret on it which sends the price of that paper crane your flying ludicrous.
2.Forcing out passengers/gunners, a blueberry sitting in on a turret seat in a dropship constantly hitting the ship is detrimental to the safety of the passengers/pilot as well as the pilots own sanity, not saying you should make it so your pretty much shooting the guy out of a cannon into the red zone, but just dropping them out the bottom couldn't hurt.
3.The Modules necessary and/or devoted to the dropship themselves that allow you to turn that flying crane...Into a flying bomb :3 . |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Kapow Heavy Industries
163
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Posted - 2013.06.20 12:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
The main point to factor is therole of the vehicle.
Lets run on the assumption that the game is heading toward larger maps, or/and terrain features that would push a team to use troop transport. Such features would be multi objective maps (which we have now) hilly terrain with roads that ground units can use but at a much reduced time to destination... and so on. In this future what roles and tasks should a Drop ship be expected to fulfil?
Roles
1)Transport of a full squad.
2)Pick up and Delivery of Players at the beginning of a match and during the match for point to point transport
To complete these roles what must a drop ship be able to do ?
1)Move quickly
2)Carry at least 6
3)Survive the trip
4)Survive delivery and pickup in hot zones
5)Assist in the safety of those being dropped or picked up
These are the key factors that should drive the design. The main points I think are capacity and survival. Damage is a minor point. The Drop ship must by design and function land slowly (due to impact damage and tight terrain) and hover for short periods of time. This requires high damage absorption.
It can take a full minute of slow movement and being stationary to land, drop, pick then leave an objective. currently drop ships are very venerable when trying to do this. With the range and strength of a forge or swarm once within 300m of an objective I will come under sustained fire. I have to cover the 300m. Land. Wait to load. Take off, then travel the 300m again. This requires high HP or EHP and takes quite some time.
I would prefer a fair damage but very high EHP drop ship. The current versions do fair damage. ItGÇÖs fair because aiming is hard, it takes more than one player to operate the side turrets and the weapons are quite weak. I think to meet the role above we need :
1)Current weapons increased in damage slightly. We still need 3 people to operate so the current damage model is not over powered
2)Double our current EHP, or more. High ehp is not over powered if our DPS is low (which it is. Very low)
3)Counter measures
Risks
BUT if we are too strong in EHP even with our hard to aim weak weapons we could become OP. So I would prefer active ehp rather than passive. Make surviving skill based to balance high ehp. For example we have to time our approach with module cool down to consider, with high passive we could roll on in anytime. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
306
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
High HP, low speed, flares, and all come with a pilot turret. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
363
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 12:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
In my mind there should be three variants of the dropship. I see it as a support aircraft, and want to encourage that role.
The base dropship works essentially like our current base dropships. It's capable of carrying troops and gets bonuses to things like mCRU respawn or scanner radius.
The second would be the logi dropship. This would work differently than our current logi dropships, in that I would nix the built-in mCRU and exchange it for bonuses to range and transfer amount of reps and cap transfers, as well as bonuses to certain remote buffs such as tracking speed. Basically it's the vehicle version of a logi suit. Turrets which function like remote reps and which also benefit from these bonuses would be very useful. These are essentially the T2 logi cruisers from EVE.
The final variant is the recon variant. An example would be the one at the end of this dev blog. It's a dropship that specializes in electronic warfare. It's still a support ship, but offers its support offensively through such things as cap neuting, sensor jamming, and the like. It's essentially a T2 recon cruiser from EVE
You'll notice no assault or bomber dropships. Those roles deserve their own hulls, and I suspect that's where CCP ultimately wants to end up. They just wanted to give us these roles to play with while they work on other things.
Things to assist dropships that aren't actually the dropship:
Larger maps and team sizes. The biggest problem with all vehicles, not just dropships, is the lack of role. Because of the small maps and team sizes there's not much a vehicle can do that small arms can't do more cost effectively. I suspect this is why CCP hasn't implemented transport assist WPs. They know that even if they were in the game, we'd almost never get any, because why sit around waiting for a dropship when you can just walk? This would help eliminate issues with dropships durability, as they would not necessarily have to sit in place to operate anymore.
Transport requests. An option available to troops to bring up the map, select a point, and have a request broadcast to friendly transport pilots of their location and where they want to go.
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Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
687
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 15:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh and dropships should be Eject their people over a dropzone! Yea it may result in trolling, but honestly it would just end up the same as a LAV, getting into a Murder taxi, you have already made a nonverbal agreement that you are both going to die horribly. |
darkiller240
INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION
4
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dropsihps should gain points for when an ally that entered the dropship then got out dropship flyer should gain assist for what he/she does for around 5 mins that would really help dropship pilot do what they spose to do Troop transport.
Also a great thing is to include Cloaks this would really resolve the low health problem |
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darkiller240
INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION
4
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Posted - 2013.06.20 15:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also the dropships look epic no redesigning on appearance needed ^^ |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
697
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 16:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Countermeasures, AV target warnings and better WP rewards would all go a long way to improving dropships but as several others have already mentioned bigger teams would make them far more useful than they currently are.
Oh yeah and an eject passengers button is a must for all vehicles. |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Kapow Heavy Industries
164
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 22:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
I hit my knee on a low table. Now it hurt but for some reason I can't quite remember the word for the small red swelling that appeared a few minutes after i hit it. Anyone know the word for that? |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
885
|
Posted - 2013.06.20 23:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Fix light weapon turrets.
- Really hard to hit stuff with due to the pixel sized hit detection.
- Tiny fire arc, that doesn't hit the drop ship itself.
- Make new weapons specific for assault dropships. The weapon systems of the A10 tank burster could be the insperation. I personally think assault dropships should function like attack helicopters. No crew but may an additional gunner control side mounted weapon systems.
Fix Pilot rewards.
- Dropship pilots should get kill assists for a successful drop.
Fix Drop mechanics.
- Mercs should drop striaght down regardless of the velocity of the dropship. While the angular momentum of of dropping mercs is fun and hilarious to watch it doesn't help the dropships role at all. And Im sure the engineers of new eden have figured out a way to funnel dropsuits down a graviton tunnel or some sci fi nonses so that passengers drop on a target directly below the dropship. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
972
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
My ideas for redesign
Basic DS -
1. pilots gets a small turret
2. be able to fit a full squad plus gunners (so max capacity is 8 + pilot)
3. hitpoints should be equivalent to a HAV.
4. an eject button for everyone but the gunners
Assault DS
1. Should be able to fit large turrets in all slots
2. should be able to fit 2 plus gunners (max capacity is 4+ pilot)
3. HP should be just higher than an LAV making it a glass cannon.
I want to be able to use an assault dropship to clear a roof and drop a small strike team, or use a basic to drop a team into a lightly defended area.
|
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 00:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bump, good post Judge mate.
I should be asleep, 1am in London here.
Okay dropships should definitely have a flare systems or a counter-measure to AA we are what, 19,000 years into the future and you can not even stop an incoming explosive. This would greatly ease the burden of having to climb to dodge the swarm/forge shot.
Also in first person view you should have a different view instead of a circle that I drew with the bottom of a cup, it should look like you are actually sitting there. You should also be able to look around like in Birds of Steel, you press down on the d-pad and use the right analog stick to look around, This would be very tactically used instead of rellying on a gunner to tell you that there is enemy AA active in the area. In this view there should also be a altimeter and a speed meter.
Now, modern day planes have anti-collision computers and so why can't a very advanced computer systen like Tacnet warn of a collision, it should warn when a aerial vehicle or AA is in the vicinity.
Well that said would help the core of the dropship problems.
And within 1-2 years we really need to see fighter jets and definitely gunships like is seen at the end of the 2009 Fanfest video in the MCC where there is a blue hologram of it floating. Gunships should be seen like AC-130's.
Spash damage, should be improved, firing a missile in front of the enemy sometimes won't even scratch the suit of the enemy. What happens with orbital strikes, I do not give a damn if they are launched from 1 billion ISK high tech metal ships with lasers. This proves a fault in your turret damage system, how can a a laser blast from space kill a merc when its origin of impact was 10 metres away whereas a missile blast half a metre from a nercs face can not even scratch him, in my opinion the splash damage system should be removed as well as impact damage and it should be replaced with a systen in which whatever is within its blast radius will take the full damage of the missile, you can not take complaints saying this would be over powered because how can it be realistic?
On the contrary Assault Dropships should be like Chopper Gunners I being an Incubus pilot would like to see a improvement to the pilot aiming system. in the fixed first person view you can not see an ant without rolling forward. in third person the pilot should have a complete overhead view when looking underneath the ship with crosshairs.
And finally for dropship gunners, you can't even shoot when the dropship is moving at a velocity without the missile or blast impacting the dropship, this can lead to loss of control in some cases, especially with railgun turrets, for the pilot. This is probably one of the most ridicoulous
I really hope a Dev or CPM member looks at my post as it would greatly improve pilots lives. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
363
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 01:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread*, and a lot of incredibly bad ones. But ultimately I think that the fixes for the DS are conceptually very simple, but incredibly difficult to implement. It's an operational tool in a game where everything is at a tactical level. The bulk of the problem is in the scale and scope of the game at present. Bring in large maps and large teams and rapid transport will become invaluable.
*MIne is the best, obviously.  |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 18:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I will bump this forum till seen.
correction: bump this topic* |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
BUMP FOR TOP TOPIC!
COME ON GUYS! |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 18:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
BUMP KEEP POSTING YOUR AWESOME IDEAS!
Dropships having a bomber variant sounds quite dubligous... is that how you spell it?
Could we have more details on this variant? |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
709
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Posted - 2013.06.21 18:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Evolution-7 wrote:I will bump this forum till seen.
correction: bump this topic*
It's a CPM thread; it doesn't need a dev to come on and say he's seen it; the CPM will take it directly to the team responsible once the player feedback has been compiled. You really don't need to keep bumping. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
363
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 18:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Evolution-7 wrote:dubligous
Are you trying to say "dubious"? |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 19:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yup sorry dubious.
Well then Django Quik, we will bump for more players to see the post at the top so we CAN get the players ideas. I have already written some extensive stuff to improve the overall feel of the DS.
Also back to the bomber dropship, please, please. It would be awesome for this dropship to be defendable against other aerial attack. Instead of current turret positions like turrets on the side, it should have two turrets, one directly under the barrel of the dropship and one on the top-rear of the ship for future purposes of anti-air defence. This should also be a reason of introducing swarm launchers for light turrets that can lock onto vehicles as well as other swarms, if flares can not be designed for some reason we could have that as an alternative defense.
I figured out how to implement the use of flares, this could be by pressing X(currently unused in aerial vehicles, although I somehow managed to get the ADS to zoom once and I could never do it again only by pressing random buttons, could someone point out how to do this to me)
To implement an eject passenger feature you should press L3 as it is unlikely to be pressed normally, it will give space between all main buttons on the ps3 controller, thus preventing accidental removal of passengers but this should not be allowed in the ground units redzone as aerial and ground have different redzones.
To add a look feature, you could tap SQUARE once to allow the R3 stick to move around to show the surroundings. This is then tapped again to return to normal vision.
When remote repping I would like to see the beam of energy from the dropship to the target like seen in the Gathering Forces trailer.
For ADS you could also add maybe multiple ammo-types to switch between.
I just thought of an awesome idea, just like soldiers are cloaked when spawning, you can guess what I am going to say..... ADD a temporary 5-10 second invincibility of vehicles to give them a chance to move when dropped by the RDV and to prevent RDV pilot stupidness.
Also add some sort of laser so the pilot can laze targets for gunners, that would be awesome.
All ideas in this topic are awesome. Keep posting guys.
EDITED 3 time because of mistake in controller buttons. |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 20:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bump |
Klivve Cussler
S.e.V.e.N.
187
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 20:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Complete redesign, eh?
TL;DR: Survivability is good. Retool the Logi dropship to deploy equipment rather than troops.
First, let's take a look at what dropships are: VTOL vehicles resistant to small-arms fire. In this way, they are closest in capability to the "Chopper", UH-1 Huey helicopter made famous by the Vietnam war.
Like the Huey, the current dropship holds six, has door guns, and has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving over an active combat zone. Huey's can't handle hot LZ's (not well, anyway) and neither can the Dropship.
This configuration presents a problem for two reasons: one, the entire map is an active combat zone, which severely limits the dropship's ability to survive there; and two, there isn't a huge need for terrain avoiding troop transportation. This leaves the dropship in this role a tool of occasional use, and is usually disposable.
The Assault dropship adds maneuverability, and therefore some survivability, and more weapons at the cost of transport capacity. Here we have the Huey Gunship. Except we can't mount a heavy machine gun to it like they did in Vietnam. However, it's vulnerability to anything heavier than an AR is still a weakness.
The Logi Dropship is an upgraded version of the transport dropship, without the need to land in the safe zone to pick up troops. This saves time, but doesn't seriously add to the survivability. It is also painted yellow as camouflage when hiding in canary flocks.
It's important to realize that the dropships in Dust are not Pelicans, or Clone Wars Gunships, or even Pave Hawks. They are Choppers. Play them as such, and they're pretty good.
So, now what do we want dropships to be? I think the answer is divided into two parts: Survivability and Role.
For survivability, I think that most people have already hit the high points: Better threat detection, countermeasures/ECM, stealth. For the Assault variant, I think heavier shields and armor would be appropriate, to bring it in line with the MI-24 Hind gunship it's trying to be (Passenger capability is why I didn't say Apache)
Role, I think, is the bigger question: What can you use a dropship for? I think that the assault role makes sense, with more survivability, and the basic transport role has its uses, but the Logi dropship, I think, should primarily be used for dropping equipment.
Imagine a yellow demon swooping low over the battlefield dropping mobile uplinks, AV mines, and remote explosives. You lock on, and it turns on its ECM, breaking your lock. MDs and Plasma launchers rise up and damage the ship, and it flies back behind the redline to repair and resupply. |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Klivve Cussler, I like your very smart thinking, the only problem I see is the gunship being a new variant of the dropship, hell no.
A new vehicle all together something like a Heavy aerial Vehicle should look like this:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=futuristic+gunship&id=A5387C4F00BF0FB386D78C037335E8519D575904&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=A5387C4F00BF0FB386D78C037335E8519D575904&selectedIndex=0 |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 21:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
While I haven't Really Used the Dropship all that Much, I have Used the MIL Model, and I Believe several things need to Occur
1) WP for Spawn-Ins- Consider the CRU as a Drop Uplink that Lasts Forever. That Way their is a Reason to Fly Dropships besides to Blow ISK. It Would Provide a Safe Spawn Point For the Squad to Rally Before Assaulting a Position. But Non of That Matters If 2 isn't Considered
2) Larger Map s + Larger Player Counts- Why Spawn onto a flying bull's-eye when you can walk to the target? If Maps were Bigger we wouldn't have to Question that. Not Only Would it improve DS survivability, which in its current State is Worse then Murder Taxis, as if it came Under Attack, it Could Run Away, but as Give the DS purpose as Would You Rather Walk Across The Map that I Propose Became Open (Next Time you Play, Before you Spawn, Zoom all the way out. ) Or would you rather take a Ride in the Now More Survivable DS to the Target, And Then have Numerous Attempts At taking the Objective with the CRU being put to use as the Pilot is now getting WP for Fitting it.
A] The Speed of the Average Skirmish Match needs to be Slowed Down Immenselly. Or Replace It woith Something with more clearly Defined Attackers and Defenders. I Posed on a Thread that Explains a very good Replacement For the Kitteny Skirmish We have Now Here is the tread
3) Give the Capability To Remove the Side Turrets all together-The Purpose I am suggesting for the DS requires both a CRU, and the Simple Requirement that all Non-Suicide Vehicles of extensive use of Tanking Mods, and the Turrets should be eliminable for those preferring to Simply Drop the Troops Off and Then Leave to Save fitting space |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
489
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 22:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:1. Give them the ability to force eject passengers (but not in the red zone).
Sure there is potential for abuse, but its the player's responsibility to be careful where they spawn, and the tactical benefits of forcibly deploying many teammates to attack an objective makes it worth it. Also, it makes mCRUs much more useful since ejecting players will allow more to spawn on the mCRU, and thus increase dropship usefulness to the team.
2. Allow dropships to deploy without turrets (and vehicles in general).
Turrets use up PG//CPU that could otherwise be used for more productive purposes. Not all dropships are for combat, many are far transportation or reconnaissance, so it does not make sense to require turrets from all of them.
3. Obviously WP for players spawning on your mCRU.
This^
Why do I HAVE to deploy into battle with a weapon? (Same for dropsuits.)
4. Dorsal and Ventral turrets for better fore and aft weapon coverage.
5. "No" to dorsal and ventral turrets? Let the passengers fire their hand weapons from the dropship (and LAV). Perhaps allow them to set-up their handheld weapons on extra gun mounts (sway from the dropship pilot is enough). I would love to see dropship sniping. Or using an HMG, AR, or scrambler rifle from a weapon mount. |
IR Scifi
Silver Talon Corporation
37
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 22:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:
5. "No" to dorsal and ventral turrets? Let the passengers fire their hand weapons from the dropship (and LAV). Perhaps allow them to set-up their handheld weapons on extra gun mounts (sway from the dropship pilot is enough). I would love to see dropship sniping. Or using an HMG, AR, or scrambler rifle from a weapon mount.
I can already imagine the epic drive-bys and tears this would cause. |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.21 22:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Give all dropships a CRU built in and WP for people who used the dropship to enter the battlefield (drop out of dropship and hit an enemy within a certain timespan, bonus points for a kill or hack).
Give dropships the ability to rearm people like a nanohive and add a armor rep module, that reps the armor of people in an area below the dropship automatically.
Give people the ability to use a rope or something to hang below the dropship for quick extraction or insertion near NULL cannons or other objectives, so the dropship doesn't need to land on the ground to let mercs enter, near the ground should be enough.
Make the AI of turrets not shoot dropships.
and give them a resist bonus against Forge Guns (25% or something).
Also; Restrict Drop Uplinks to be only deployable outdoors. |
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