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Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.06.17 14:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
I agree that the scout suit is broken. I'm concerned that the solutions being offered are to make the scout suit more like the assault suit. This doesn't make sense to me. They should just remove the scout suit if that's what you want.
The scout suit needs to be improved by improving the things it's supposed to do better than everything else. A big part of that is signature profile. The base for the scout should be greatly reduced (-10 or -15) and it should be increased significantly for the assault(+10) and a ton for the logi's and heavies(+30). Oh and Free LAV's need to be +100. Right now, there isn't nearly enough to differentiate the various sig profiles between the suits.
Next is adding things that will give the scout an advantage in other ways. I think we need ascension cables, jetpacks, and look forward to the real stealth modules that CCP is already planning. I think for the jetpacks and cables especially, the powergrid needs should be based on the weight of the suit (i.e. it takes significantly more energy to hoist an assault suit up than it does a scout, and so much more to do a heavy that they're not going to be able to fit much else).
I'd also like to see a micro-jump drive module for the CQC scout where they can teleport very short distances like 5 Meters if it's within LOS. This would allow a "backstab mechanic" so they can get behind someone once they've been spotted. It would radically improve survivability, but in a way true to the nature of the suit instead of just turning the scout into something other than a glass cannon. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
425
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Posted - 2013.06.17 16:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I agree that the scout suit is broken. I'm concerned that the solutions being offered are to make the scout suit more like the assault suit. This doesn't make sense to me. They should just remove the scout suit if that's what you want.
Your concern is unfounded. Let's move on.
Vell0cet wrote: The scout suit needs to be improved by improving the things it's supposed to do better than everything else. A big part of that is signature profile. The base for the scout should be greatly reduced (-10 or -15) and it should be increased significantly for the assault(+10) and a ton for the logi's and heavies(+30). Oh and Free LAV's need to be +100. Right now, there isn't nearly enough to differentiate the various sig profiles between the suits. This also goes for the base levels of the signature profile detection mechanics. Scouts should be excellent at seeing enemy stuff on the map, assault mediocre and logi/heavy really bad at it by default (everyone should always be able to see their teammates all of the time).
maybe, but as someone who plays a scout, this is a lesser concern as I routinely run behind people for what seems like miles swinging my ishnoks with abandon and they never know i am there.
Vell0cet wrote: Next is adding things that will give the scout an advantage in other ways. I think we need ascension cables, jetpacks, and look forward to the real stealth modules that CCP is already planning. I think for the jetpacks and cables especially, the powergrid needs should be based on the weight of the suit (i.e. it takes significantly more energy to hoist an assault suit up than it does a scout, and so much more to do a heavy that they're not going to be able to fit much else).
I'd also like to see a nano-jump drive module for the CQC scout where they can teleport very short distances (like 5 meters) if it's within LOS (there would be a significant cooldown). This would allow a "backstab mechanic" so they can get behind someone once they've been spotted. It would radically improve survivability, but in a way true to the nature of the suit instead of just turning the scout into something other than a glass cannon.
yea. that stuff is fine, and probably deserves it's own thread.
TL;DR I've played scouts since the closed beta came about. there are some issues with the CPU/PG, and they are shorted slots that make them viable. Like I said, if you don't see that, go look at the caldari logi. Also, consider I am talking at the proto level only as I see think the advanced level scout is decent. |
Ghost Kaisar
Intrepidus XI Omega Commission
0
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Posted - 2013.06.18 06:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Currently, the Minja scout is at 2L/3H slots and the Ganja scout is 1H/4L.
I propose changing this to Minja 3L/3H and the ganja to 2H/4L. In addition, buff the CPU/PG by 15-20%.
I can't see anyone having any arguments against this, and makes the scout far more viable. So I won't bother to reinforce why this makes sense. It just does.
If you somehow disagree- see caldari logi 5H/4L. I rest my case.
+1
We don't need another high slot, 2 complex shields are enough, and then you combine with your favorite damage mod or regulator.
I just wanna be able to run proto sprint and proto stamina while not killing my PG/CPU. Props to you sir! |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
232
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Posted - 2013.06.18 07:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Come on guys! Let's put an end to assault 514! |
Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
311
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Posted - 2013.06.18 08:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
If your team is dumb enough to leave one person to guard an objective and you get jumped by 6 people, failing to defend the objective is not a failure of the heavy suit's design.
The failure is your team's.
Seriously if a heavy could reasonably expect to consistently win a 4v1, EVERYONE WOULD BE A HEAVY.
And then you'd be back to square one, dying because of your fail team.
Edit: Sorry for posting about heavies in your scout thread, just tired of these dumb complaints. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.06.18 08:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
mollerz wrote:yea. that stuff is fine, and probably deserves it's own thread. Fair enough. Here's the thread I started. I'd appreciate feedback and be interested in your/everyone else's thoughts. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
262
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Posted - 2013.06.18 12:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:If your team is dumb enough to leave one person to guard an objective and you get jumped by 6 people, failing to defend the objective is not a failure of the heavy suit's design.
The failure is your team's.
Seriously if a heavy could reasonably expect to consistently win a 4v1, EVERYONE WOULD BE A HEAVY.
And then you'd be back to square one, dying because of your fail team.
Edit: Sorry for posting about heavies in your scout thread, just tired of these dumb complaints.
Honestly!
I never said a heavy should win 1v4 I simply said a heavy should be able to survive 1v4. By this I mean being able to take out at least 2 - 3 before having to retreat and wait for back up to arrive.
A heavy should be able to win every time in a 1v2 fight against players in the same Tier all day, 1v3 depending on level of skill. As of now Assaults can 1v1 a heavy, which should NEVER be the case.
I do agree with OP though regardless of our thoughts toward the heavies; the scouts could us some love |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
690
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Posted - 2013.06.18 15:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
I've been saying for ages that the gallente suit progression is weird for scouts but I disagree that you should give the proto one extra hi to make it right - instead make the adv 1 hi 3 lo.
A very small CPU/PG increase would be adequate but nowhere near 15-20%; I'd say 10% would be ok. |
Asher Night
187. League of Infamy
123
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Posted - 2013.06.19 16:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
I agree wih this. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
467
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Posted - 2013.06.20 21:56:00 -
[40] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:I've been saying for ages that the gallente suit progression is weird for scouts but I disagree that you should give the proto one extra hi to make it right - instead make the adv 1 hi 3 lo.
A very small CPU/PG increase would be adequate but nowhere near 15-20%; I'd say 10% would be ok.
Why do you say that? Did you even bother to run the numbers, or just deem 15-20% is too much based on some arbitrary non-thoughts?
10% wouldn't do anything. it would just make the gap smaller and tease you that much more because you'd just be closer to fitting something worthwhile into another slot.
15-20% would be the minimum to add another slot, put something in it, and manage the rest of the currently deficient slots CPU/PG.
Proto suits should be able to fill slot swith complex mods, advanced suits with enhanced, and std/MLT with std/MLT mods. get it?
currently, the proto CPU/PG on the minnie suit is broken because you can't even adhere to that standard all the other suits can.
this is with LV5s across my core skills (15m SPs).
So please, do some math before brain farting out a low number that is worthless. |
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Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
334
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Posted - 2013.06.20 22:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Are any proto suits capable of running a full proto loadout? I know Logis can't. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
471
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Posted - 2013.06.20 22:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:Are any proto suits capable of running a full proto loadout? I know Logis can't.
The caldari logi with 9 slots? 9 slots is a tall order to fill with 100% proto.
5 slots shouldn't be harder than that. |
Cass Barr
Red Star. EoN.
334
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Posted - 2013.06.20 22:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gallente, actually. But the same total slot count, 14. |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
471
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Posted - 2013.06.20 22:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
That could be a potential discussion to have.
My point still stands.
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Harry Hendersons
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.06.21 00:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
One more high one more low?
Nah maybe 1 more high, but not 2 |
Yani Sing
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.06.22 18:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yes scouts are only 2 high slots from being even relavant here in new dpeden, as it is now, they are useless. |
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