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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
210
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Posted - 2013.06.14 02:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
I could get behind this but only if all Heavy Suits receive 1H, 1L and more CPU/PG as well |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
232
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Posted - 2013.06.17 02:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Mai Deek wrote:mollerz wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:I could get behind this but only if all Heavy Suits receive 1H, 1L and more CPU/PG as well This is not a negotiation. GTFO whit your phat ass. funny, but Heavy suits have the same equipment failings as scouts. Max of 5 combined for high and low at proto level.. Not like we are asking for an equipment slot... I disagree, my heavy friend. There exists enormous risk in running with knives, and reasonable people expect a balance of risk to reward. Consider the long list of ways to OHK even the greatest scout among us. 150k+ isk down the drain to one flaylock blast, one sniper round, or one fused locus nade. Now what's a Proto Heavy's EHP again? I'll ask Cubs next time I see him post 20/0 in a pub. 1000+ HP is not risk. 1000+ HP is not underpowered. Underpowered is a title reserved for scouts and perhaps DS pilots, who seem to have Dev attention at present. Maybe we scouts can get fixed before Commandos w/shotgun sidearms tilt the scale of risk against us even further. - Shotty GoBang
There also exists significant ru-waddling in the largest slowest most expensive suit in the game. Sure we have 1000 hp, but our 3.6m/s movement and 5.1/s sprint speeds with 125 stamina more than balance this out.
I get taken out by shotgun scouts more than any thing else in the game. I also get taken out plenty by nova knives. Heavies cannot trak in CQC for crap. Our turning speed is shyte, unless the tango is 20m away it is near impossible to keep them on target even with x sensitivity at 100.
When a heavy is spotted we are attacked by 3+ players at once. how fast do you think that 1000 hp last under sustained fire from 3 or more duvall ARs? At least scouts have tiny hitboxes, and ultrafast movement//sprint speed giving them a chance to escape. All a heavy can do is pray we can out gun these guys(knowing we cannot)
Forget the fact that we can be OHK by plenty of explosives that anyone can carry. My a1 series is OHKd by any frag grenade from MLT locust up,flaylocks, plasma cannons, mass drivers, forge guns, LAVs, HAVs, rail turret installations, etc. if it can OHK a heavy is dead because we cannot dodge jack shyte.
20/0 in a pub is entirely unimpressive! Furthermore, you cannot judge balance by the things that occur in pub matches.
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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
234
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Posted - 2013.06.17 03:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: And what do the other classes get. I can see Logi not needing anything, the heavies and assaults should get something.
infact I would be incredibly happy if assaults got a second grenade slot to balance this out.
I think this scout buff is a wonderful idea.
I'm just going to come right out and say it. Assaults are powerful enough as it is! they are supposed to be jack of all trades master of none.
They are becoming Master of all trades God Suits. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
241
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Posted - 2013.06.17 14:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Thanks for the response, Jaraiya. I'd like to respond to a few of your points; not for the sake of argument, rather for simple consideration:
Likewise
Shotty GoBang wrote:A shotgun scout or nova ninja should win against a heavy at or under 3 meters. To accomplish this CQC feat, a scout likely had to sneak in behind enemy lines, find a lone target, stalk him remaining undetected, and await opportunity to close the gap. Even perfectly executed, that scout has blown his cover by attacking you and his odds of survival are bleak if any enemy happens to be nearby.
There are numerous variables a CQC scout must constantly manage and analyze. Situational awareness is the only variable in play for the unfortunate heavy that falls to a scout.
I would agree to this, but I would also add to it.
Heavies completely fail at CQC even though it is suppposed to be our area of expertise. We should dominate CQC. Heavies do not have the speed to turn and track, the speed to close in for kills, or the damage needed to stop opponents.
I rarely am killed by a stealth CQC scout. Most often, they rush head on, strafing and jumping to avoid being hit. Then when the get in close, they simply run circles around me firing at will. It is impossible to keep them on screen let alone on target. Their hitbox is so tiny that minimal damage is dealt when my target does find it's mark for split seconds at a time.
One could say this kind of balance is working as intended.
Shotty GoBang wrote:A heavy draws fire because he represents a greater threat. I think I understand your point, but I don't think that a single heavy should offer a fair fight versus focused fire from three ARs.
This I must highly disagree with. As a heavy, our role is supposed to be point defender. This often means being left behind at an objective alone. Therefore, in order for us to fill our role, we should be able to withstand sustained fire from at the very least 4 ARs. If we cannot then we would simply fail at our role 100% of the time. As it is now, normally when I am spotted by 2 or more, I have time to take 1 or 2 down before I am killed. If I am defending an objective and it gets attacked by lets say 5 guys. I go into defense mode, and I am able to take out 2 while 4 are shooting me (one is hacking). That leaves 3 to hack the Letter, CRU, Supply Depot (if there is one), and/or Turret Installation. Role of Point Defender = EPIC FAIL
Shotty GoBang wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote: Furthermore, you cannot judge balance by the things that occur in pub matches.
A veteran CQC scout is less viable in pub combat than an equivalent medium or heavy; this is a fair measurement of imbalance. That imbalance is amplified ten fold in PC when fighting against hardened and organized opponents. - Shotty
I have played as a CQC scout albeit not in Uprising. I was able to achieve similar KD/R in full MLT Shotgun Scout as I can in my Advanced Heavy suit with complex modules.
My best moment as a Shotgun Scout is when I took out not 1, not 2, but 3 heavies! Yes 3 heavies!
Heavies are hardly viable in PC as well when fighting against hardened and organized opponents who know how to exploit our weaknesses. (Movement Speed, Turning Speed, Range, Dispersion, lack of Shields, etc.) |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
262
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Posted - 2013.06.18 12:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:If your team is dumb enough to leave one person to guard an objective and you get jumped by 6 people, failing to defend the objective is not a failure of the heavy suit's design.
The failure is your team's.
Seriously if a heavy could reasonably expect to consistently win a 4v1, EVERYONE WOULD BE A HEAVY.
And then you'd be back to square one, dying because of your fail team.
Edit: Sorry for posting about heavies in your scout thread, just tired of these dumb complaints.
Honestly!
I never said a heavy should win 1v4 I simply said a heavy should be able to survive 1v4. By this I mean being able to take out at least 2 - 3 before having to retreat and wait for back up to arrive.
A heavy should be able to win every time in a 1v2 fight against players in the same Tier all day, 1v3 depending on level of skill. As of now Assaults can 1v1 a heavy, which should NEVER be the case.
I do agree with OP though regardless of our thoughts toward the heavies; the scouts could us some love |
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