Impressive detail OP.
I greatly enjoyed reading through the various suggested fixes you had and your thoroughly detailed description of the issues.

Not like it would matter, they don't listen to the feedback anyways.

Shield tanks are fine. This is coming from a Gunnlogi pilot with 8m SP invested into them.

They work great when thrown in with infantry. The natural shield regen coupled with explosive resistance lets you stay with your infantry and soak up a bunch of damage for them. Shield tanks lose out to armor tanks 1v1 though, which, given the shields strengths, I think is a fair tradeoff. Armor doesn't last nearly as long when combined with infantry as shields do.

People like you don't understand that armor reps are three times as powerful than shield boosters. Even if anti-armor weapons dealt twice as much damage than anti-shield weapons did (which they don't), armor still reps three times as much hp than shield. Shields should be able to burst tank, but armor does that better than shield, and shield should also be able to fit passive tanks as well (but the shield regen is absolute crap).

Shield tanks are fine. This is coming from a Gunnlogi pilot with 8m SP invested into them.

They work great when thrown in with infantry. The natural shield regen coupled with explosive resistance lets you stay with your infantry and soak up a bunch of damage for them. Shield tanks lose out to armor tanks 1v1 though, which, given the shields strengths, I think is a fair tradeoff. Armor doesn't last nearly as long when combined with infantry as shields do.

People forget that Caldari is for ranged engagements and general support fire, basically the "snipers". Plus, you not natural repps.....

^ has never done PC before, point invalidated.


To anyone and everyone who think tanks in general are fine. Why are there next to NO tanks in PC? And to anyone who thinks shield tanks are fine, why are the 2 tanks in PC armor tanks?

Riddle me that. If you have an answer that isn't ******** you will shut up me and every other tanker in the world.

As much as I agree with balancing tanks arround pc this is not the best answer as only about 5% of the dust population if that get to participate in pc so balancing on elietist gameplay will put the rest of the game into unbalance. Plain and simple.

Yes pc is the endgame and all classes should be viable in pc but I think we would find more balance if ccp would just give us reallproto havs . You wouldent dream of entering pc with just std suits and all we really have is std havs. I do think if and when proto havs are released we will have the balance we are all looking for.

Why do armor tanks make better railtanks then?


People just STFU if you don't know what you're talking about.

Aye, I do agree on that front.

When did they? I always did better with a Caldari HAV Rail sniping. You must be doing it wrong, or go against terribad rail snipers.


Peace, Godin

When did they? I always did better with a Caldari HAV Rail sniping. You must be doing it wrong, or go against terribad rail snipers.


Peace, Godin

Because railguns are more effective against shield than armor. You sir must be doing it wrong.

Impressive detail OP.
I greatly enjoyed reading through the various suggested fixes you had and your thoroughly detailed description of the issues.

What does a Caldari do better for rail sniping?

More EHP? Gallente. Better way to repair? Gallente. More damage? Same. More mobility? Gallente. Better resistences? Gallente.

Incorrect. If the Gallente Rail sniper has more EHP than the Caldari tank, it does not have better mobility, and it does not do more damage. Shield tanks have better resistances for a shorter period of time, which makes sense when you should only be activating them to get your tank behind cover quickly, since you should be far and away from the combat.

The Madrugar can be equal to the Gunnlogi when fit with Railguns on some fronts, but it sacrifices on others. It is capable of higher damage at the cost of incredibly paper thin tank, it is capable of going faster at NIL tank, it is capable of higher EHP at the cost of all mobility..

The only 100% correct point you have there is Armor repair modules are indeed "better" than shield regenerators. Probably has something to do with CCP factoring in natural shield regen rate.

Edit: Before being flamed for absolutely no reason and have people make entirely irate assumptions about me, my personal life, and how I play this game, yes. I armor tank. I am Gallente and only spec into Gallente Suits and vehicles (and for the most part weaponry). That said, I have used far more shield tanks than armor tanks, although I've used both. So trying to say I don't have any opinion here is wrong, leave it. I have done mostly okay in matches with my really poorly fit Sicas (I have little to no vehicle shield SP invested, only armor). That said, I can agree that shields on the vehicle level need A MODERATE amount of love. 90% of what people are calling for would just throw armor out of favor and shield into favor. Remember the flavor.

Armor tanks deal with opposing tanks better, shield tanks synergize with infantry better.

i was a armor tanker till the 2nd uprising respec and we are hurting pretty bad i never cared for rails much so i wont mention those but my blaster tanks couldnt fit a 180mm plate without giving up 2 slots to pg expansions i could fit a 120mm and a 60mm which saved something like 300-400 pg and had a worse penalty than a 180mm but id still be giving up on damage resistance(in my case i could only use passives due to issues with KB/M)

the only madrugar of mine that could fit a 180mm plate was a STD missile tank.....

while shield tanks couldnt slot nitros without giving up a slot atleast you guys dont have to give up your main slots for pg expansions....

buuut i also believe shield tanks need a buff in fact i wonder how much better the would do with a decent natural shield recharge...(both tanks as a whole need a buff or atleast give us ADV/PRO vehicles.....)

Just flat out lying. A single 180mm plate gets you higher HP than we can ever achieve. With no mods, you have better mobility (though you have acess to nitrous boosters while we do not).

Shield tanks have 5% better resistance for TEN seconds. No shield tank worth a **** uses surge modules. We are forced to use the 15% passive resistences. You get 25% hardeners.

I said they have the SAME damage. Learn to read.

It is not for no reason that you are flamed. It's because you come to a thread with no information and spout lies.

EDIT: The only reason I care about those lies is we need less people spreading them so the healing can begin. CCP needs to take notice.

And I don't know if you're thinking I want armor tanks nerfed. On the contrary they need to be buffed as well.

We have next to no representation in PC and that is because we are weak.

The uprising nerf to vehicles did indeed hit armor harder than shields. It's bullcrap and we need to get that reverted/mended.

Yeah, with NO tank at all is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi. Unless you have a fetish with "living on the edge" you're not going in without plates, and a single 60 plate is all it takes to go slower than the Gunnlogi, where most people will use 120s or 180s. To use 180s we have to further sacrifice low slots (read: our survivability) using PG modifier modules. By comparison, a single Complex plate on a dropsuit gives ridiculously higher armor levels than complex shield extenders (pretty much 2:1 ratio) but shields are arguably favored in the dropsuit department.

To claim that what I said is a lie, when none of it was, is funny. Also, am I allowed to complain that you get passive resists that are higher than our passive resists? Or are we just going to overlook that? And both tanks are hurting inexorably for powergrid, but at least you don't have to give up tank slots to use them. You do have to sacrifice the claim to damage mods which you should rightly have, however.

If an armor tank isn't ****fit then your shield tank is faster 100% of the time. But you guys ALWAYS ignore that simply because our base speed is higher. It's time to get over that fact and start dealing with the problems related to shield tanking that ACTUALLY matter. Like:

1) Powergrid problems (due to the powergrid skill change and this hurts all HAVs)
2) Active Hardeners should last ~15s as opposed to 10, while keeping the amount bonus
3) Shield tanks should be enticed into longer range, high powered railgun roles in a better manner (role definition)
4) Shield Active Reps need to be higher bursts than armor (armor should be slower but stay in the thick of the fight longer)

These aren't "big buffs" necessary to shield tanks. The shield modules need minor tweaks to be brought in line, not giant changes. Being so quick to "Waaaaaah" and "Waaah" loudly are what bring about free militia LAVs that take prototype level equipment to take out.

Edit: Please understand that despite being an armor tanker I am interested in balance and flavor, not in making armor "master race" or anything similar.