Shield tanks are fine. This is coming from a Gunnlogi pilot with 8m SP invested into them.

They work great when thrown in with infantry. The natural shield regen coupled with explosive resistance lets you stay with your infantry and soak up a bunch of damage for them. Shield tanks lose out to armor tanks 1v1 though, which, given the shields strengths, I think is a fair tradeoff. Armor doesn't last nearly as long when combined with infantry as shields do.

People forget that Caldari is for ranged engagements and general support fire, basically the "snipers". Plus, you not natural repps.....

As much as I agree with balancing tanks arround pc this is not the best answer as only about 5% of the dust population if that get to participate in pc so balancing on elietist gameplay will put the rest of the game into unbalance. Plain and simple.

Yes pc is the endgame and all classes should be viable in pc but I think we would find more balance if ccp would just give us reallproto havs . You wouldent dream of entering pc with just std suits and all we really have is std havs. I do think if and when proto havs are released we will have the balance we are all looking for.

When did they? I always did better with a Caldari HAV Rail sniping. You must be doing it wrong, or go against terribad rail snipers.


Peace, Godin

Because railguns are more effective against shield than armor. You sir must be doing it wrong.

Incorrect. If the Gallente Rail sniper has more EHP than the Caldari tank, it does not have better mobility, and it does not do more damage. Shield tanks have better resistances for a shorter period of time, which makes sense when you should only be activating them to get your tank behind cover quickly, since you should be far and away from the combat.

The Madrugar can be equal to the Gunnlogi when fit with Railguns on some fronts, but it sacrifices on others. It is capable of higher damage at the cost of incredibly paper thin tank, it is capable of going faster at NIL tank, it is capable of higher EHP at the cost of all mobility..

The only 100% correct point you have there is Armor repair modules are indeed "better" than shield regenerators. Probably has something to do with CCP factoring in natural shield regen rate.

Edit: Before being flamed for absolutely no reason and have people make entirely irate assumptions about me, my personal life, and how I play this game, yes. I armor tank. I am Gallente and only spec into Gallente Suits and vehicles (and for the most part weaponry). That said, I have used far more shield tanks than armor tanks, although I've used both. So trying to say I don't have any opinion here is wrong, leave it. I have done mostly okay in matches with my really poorly fit Sicas (I have little to no vehicle shield SP invested, only armor). That said, I can agree that shields on the vehicle level need A MODERATE amount of love. 90% of what people are calling for would just throw armor out of favor and shield into favor. Remember the flavor.

i was a armor tanker till the 2nd uprising respec and we are hurting pretty bad i never cared for rails much so i wont mention those but my blaster tanks couldnt fit a 180mm plate without giving up 2 slots to pg expansions i could fit a 120mm and a 60mm which saved something like 300-400 pg and had a worse penalty than a 180mm but id still be giving up on damage resistance(in my case i could only use passives due to issues with KB/M)

the only madrugar of mine that could fit a 180mm plate was a STD missile tank.....

while shield tanks couldnt slot nitros without giving up a slot atleast you guys dont have to give up your main slots for pg expansions....

buuut i also believe shield tanks need a buff in fact i wonder how much better the would do with a decent natural shield recharge...(both tanks as a whole need a buff or atleast give us ADV/PRO vehicles.....)

Yeah, with NO tank at all is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi. Unless you have a fetish with "living on the edge" you're not going in without plates, and a single 60 plate is all it takes to go slower than the Gunnlogi, where most people will use 120s or 180s. To use 180s we have to further sacrifice low slots (read: our survivability) using PG modifier modules. By comparison, a single Complex plate on a dropsuit gives ridiculously higher armor levels than complex shield extenders (pretty much 2:1 ratio) but shields are arguably favored in the dropsuit department.

To claim that what I said is a lie, when none of it was, is funny. Also, am I allowed to complain that you get passive resists that are higher than our passive resists? Or are we just going to overlook that? And both tanks are hurting inexorably for powergrid, but at least you don't have to give up tank slots to use them. You do have to sacrifice the claim to damage mods which you should rightly have, however.

If an armor tank isn't ****fit then your shield tank is faster 100% of the time. But you guys ALWAYS ignore that simply because our base speed is higher. It's time to get over that fact and start dealing with the problems related to shield tanking that ACTUALLY matter. Like:

1) Powergrid problems (due to the powergrid skill change and this hurts all HAVs)
2) Active Hardeners should last ~15s as opposed to 10, while keeping the amount bonus
3) Shield tanks should be enticed into longer range, high powered railgun roles in a better manner (role definition)
4) Shield Active Reps need to be higher bursts than armor (armor should be slower but stay in the thick of the fight longer)

These aren't "big buffs" necessary to shield tanks. The shield modules need minor tweaks to be brought in line, not giant changes. Being so quick to "Waaaaaah" and "Waaah" loudly are what bring about free militia LAVs that take prototype level equipment to take out.

Edit: Please understand that despite being an armor tanker I am interested in balance and flavor, not in making armor "master race" or anything similar.

what about changes to both armor and shield hardeners/passives as well as shield boosters and possibly armor reppers

limiting both sides to 1 of each item

shield hardeners +5 second duration same cooldown and a significant buff to the damage resistance to promote burst tanking
shield passives light buff to make up for only having one(low end passive 15% and high end 25%?) to allow for some passive damage resistance while still focusing on burst tanking
shield boosters shorter durration same cooldown large buff to shield recharged(up to the 4k to 5k hp range? im not sure on exact amount for it to be balanced) and raising shield tank's passive shield recharge rate

armor hardeners same durration +5 second cooldown and 15-20% damage resistance
energized plates buff to 20-30%
armor reppers not sure on these i think they are fine as is.... maybe a slight buff(probably to duration) if they are weak in terms of balance after any changes to damage resistance mods

and after all that removing damage resistance stacking penalties since only 1 of each will be fittable

just some ideas obviously values i suggested would most likely be changed for balance

Its because people want to play outside of their role and whine on the forums about it. It gets hard to read sometimes.

Currently, I believe armor reps finish their cycles somewhere between 15-20s and boosters finish after 15 seconds. In order to make shield boosters favor burst tanking and make armor reps favor sustained tanking, I think shield boosters should not only have an increased hp/s, but also a smaller cycle time than 15s, and armor reps should provide less hp/s than the shield booster but are active for a longer period of time.

Like for example, let's use pegasis' proposal of repping 4500 hp in 10 seconds to equal 450 hp/s. The current best armor rep does 414hp/s. Shield boosters in EVE cycle significantly faster than armor reps do. So I suggest to make shield boosters pulse for 450 shield every second for 10 seconds, and make armor reps pulse once every 3 seconds for 45 seconds. The best armor rep will remain with 414 hp repaired per pulse.

Let's do the math. The best shield booster will rep a total of 4500 shield. The best armor rep will rep a total of 6210 armor (which is the current amount, except this will now be slower).

Now let's add cooldowns. The current cycle time for a shield booster is 45 seconds, and the current cycle time for armor reps is 45-50 seconds (can an armor tanker help me on this?). Shield boosters will have their cooldown increased to 35 seconds to accommodate a 5 second reduction to its active time, and armor reps will have their cooldown decreased to 5 seconds to accomodate the increase in duration of its active time.

Personally, I think shield boosters should do slightly more than 4500 hp, but that might just be from my own bias.

I think this is the ideal solution because now shield tanks can burst tank and armor tanks can only sustain a moderate tank without being able to burst tank. Also, the shield booster will now have an active duration equal to the shield hardener so the EHP repped during both active cycles will also be greater than it currently is.

Please, I want some feedback on this and also should I copy and pasta this into my own thread?