DUST Search - shield tanks need a big buff

Tankin Tarkus wrote:

what about changes to both armor and shield hardeners/passives as well as shield boosters and possibly armor reppers

limiting both sides to 1 of each item

shield hardeners +5 second duration same cooldown and a significant buff to the damage resistance to promote burst tanking
shield passives light buff to make up for only having one(low end passive 15% and high end 25%?) to allow for some passive damage resistance while still focusing on burst tanking
shield boosters shorter durration same cooldown large buff to shield recharged(up to the 4k to 5k hp range? im not sure on exact amount for it to be balanced) and raising shield tank's passive shield recharge rate

armor hardeners same durration +5 second cooldown and 15-20% damage resistance
energized plates buff to 20-30%
armor reppers not sure on these i think they are fine as is.... maybe a slight buff(probably to duration) if they are weak in terms of balance after any changes to damage resistance mods

and after all that removing damage resistance stacking penalties since only 1 of each will be fittable

just some ideas obviously values i suggested would most likely be changed for balance


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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.06.13 22:05:00 - [1] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Impressive detail OP. I greatly enjoyed reading through the various suggested fixes you had and your thoroughly detailed description of the issues. Not like it would matter, they don't listen to the feedback anyways. They only care about infantry problems in addition to that as well.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 117	Posted - 2013.06.14 00:25:00 - [2] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Shield tanks are fine. This is coming from a Gunnlogi pilot with 8m SP invested into them. They work great when thrown in with infantry. The natural shield regen coupled with explosive resistance lets you stay with your infantry and soak up a bunch of damage for them. Shield tanks lose out to armor tanks 1v1 though, which, given the shields strengths, I think is a fair tradeoff. Armor doesn't last nearly as long when combined with infantry as shields do. People like you don't understand that armor reps are three times as powerful than shield boosters. Even if anti-armor weapons dealt twice as much damage than anti-shield weapons did (which they don't), armor still reps three times as much hp than shield. Shields should be able to burst tank, but armor does that better than shield, and shield should also be able to fit passive tanks as well (but the shield regen is absolute crap).
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 118	Posted - 2013.06.14 02:54:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: People forget that Caldari is for ranged engagements and general support fire, basically the "snipers". Plus, you not natural repps..... Why do armor tanks make better railtanks then? People just STFU if you don't know what you're talking about. When did they? I always did better with a Caldari HAV Rail sniping. You must be doing it wrong, or go against terribad rail snipers. Peace, Godin Because railguns are more effective against shield than armor. You sir must be doing it wrong.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 125	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:06:00 - [4] - Quote Tankin Tarkus wrote: what about changes to both armor and shield hardeners/passives as well as shield boosters and possibly armor reppers limiting both sides to 1 of each item shield hardeners +5 second duration same cooldown and a significant buff to the damage resistance to promote burst tanking shield passives light buff to make up for only having one(low end passive 15% and high end 25%?) to allow for some passive damage resistance while still focusing on burst tanking shield boosters shorter durration same cooldown large buff to shield recharged(up to the 4k to 5k hp range? im not sure on exact amount for it to be balanced) and raising shield tank's passive shield recharge rate armor hardeners same durration +5 second cooldown and 15-20% damage resistance energized plates buff to 20-30% armor reppers not sure on these i think they are fine as is.... maybe a slight buff(probably to duration) if they are weak in terms of balance after any changes to damage resistance mods and after all that removing damage resistance stacking penalties since only 1 of each will be fittable just some ideas obviously values i suggested would most likely be changed for balance Make our shield boosters boost 5k hp in 10 or 15 seconds and I'll be happy. Same cooldown. Armor will still be able to rep more as if they were more stable on capacitor, but shield will still be able to burst. 2k shield compared to 6k armor is a joke in roughly the same amount of times.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 126	Posted - 2013.06.14 19:25:00 - [5] - Quote Currently, I believe armor reps finish their cycles somewhere between 15-20s and boosters finish after 15 seconds. In order to make shield boosters favor burst tanking and make armor reps favor sustained tanking, I think shield boosters should not only have an increased hp/s, but also a smaller cycle time than 15s, and armor reps should provide less hp/s than the shield booster but are active for a longer period of time. Like for example, let's use pegasis' proposal of repping 4500 hp in 10 seconds to equal 450 hp/s. The current best armor rep does 414hp/s. Shield boosters in EVE cycle significantly faster than armor reps do. So I suggest to make shield boosters pulse for 450 shield every second for 10 seconds, and make armor reps pulse once every 3 seconds for 45 seconds. The best armor rep will remain with 414 hp repaired per pulse. Let's do the math. The best shield booster will rep a total of 4500 shield. The best armor rep will rep a total of 6210 armor (which is the current amount, except this will now be slower). Now let's add cooldowns. The current cycle time for a shield booster is 45 seconds, and the current cycle time for armor reps is 45-50 seconds (can an armor tanker help me on this?). Shield boosters will have their cooldown increased to 35 seconds to accommodate a 5 second reduction to its active time, and armor reps will have their cooldown decreased to 5 seconds to accomodate the increase in duration of its active time. Personally, I think shield boosters should do slightly more than 4500 hp, but that might just be from my own bias. I think this is the ideal solution because now shield tanks can burst tank and armor tanks can only sustain a moderate tank without being able to burst tank. Also, the shield booster will now have an active duration equal to the shield hardener so the EHP repped during both active cycles will also be greater than it currently is. Please, I want some feedback on this and also should I copy and pasta this into my own thread?
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 126	Posted - 2013.06.14 22:07:00 - [6] - Quote Tankin Tarkus wrote: as someone who has armor tanked this build i cant agree with the changes to armor reppers that your suggesting 414/3 sec is too slow it was take 9 seconds to rep 1200 armor which is less than even a militia swarm can do in 3 seconds(flight time aside) swarms and assault forges would destroy armor tanks before their reppers could even make a difference which is why i made my suggestion on reppers if u want to make shield boosters "burst heal" why not make them rep somewhere in the 4500-6k range in a short period of time(say 5 seconds maybe a short 3 second delay before it kicks in for balance) that would be 900-1200/sec i think armors 1200/3 sec is fair as is it significantly slows damage after you apply damage resistance but its still not too high that it out reps accurate low/mid level or high level AV damage sources i suppose it could take a small hit to rep rate but not 1/3 but it would need to last longer as well maybe 200-300/s for 20 seconds or something I'm sorry that armor reps were placed into God-mode when they shouldn't be. If you play EVE, you'll find that any armor tanker for PvP does not have an armor rep, but rather a lot of buffer armor and resists be ause armor reps are the slow and steady healers while shield boosters are the aggressive ones. Sure, some ships have bonuses towards armor reps and have incredibly strong armor rep tank fits, but the majority of armor ships rely on buffer. I'm not saying that armor tanks in Dust should rely on buffer only. I'm just saying that they have too good of a burst tank, when they are meant for sustained reps. I don't agree with you that shield boosters should have a small warm up period. Armor reps in EVE intentionally rep at the end of each cycle while shield boosters are effective immediately. But my bias likes your suggestion for shield boosters to boost 900-1200hp/s for five seconds
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 126	Posted - 2013.06.14 22:24:00 - [7] - Quote Tankin Tarkus wrote: i thought gallente focused more on repping instead of buffer to maintain any sort speed(coulda swore thats why they got the higher base speed) but i dont play eve(would like to) so idk as far as my suggestion on the small delay before the booster kicked in it was a suggestion to promote balance.. you would have to time your booster early to get the most out of the recharge instead of being able to throw it on at the last second and go from almost no shield to med/high shield in seconds Some of their ships in EVE get bonuses to the amount repped by armor reps, but this bonus is typically weaker than a bonus to armor resists which some Amarr ships get. However, there are famous fittings involving triple armor rep Myrmidons (battle cruiser level ship) that can take on a few people at once, depending on situation of course. But I must still disagree with the delay on shield boosters. You can still do the same thing with shield ships in EVE, especially Caldari ones with bonuses to shield repping power: wait until you're low on shield, hit the booster and your shield goes up almost instantaneously, again depending on situation and the kind of fit and ship.