DUST Search - Why DUST 514 won't fail

Tharak Meuridiar wrote:

Ludvig Enraga wrote:

I also predict that Dust will fail as soon as some other developer who is better at making FPS will make a game with permanent resources to fight over to support a robust clan warfare. Something like Planetside but only for consoles. People who came to Dust following a promise of a persistent world where actions have a permanent effect will turn right around and jump on the next boat.

By the time that happens DUST 514 will have worked out many bugs, tied things together better, released more content, and people will have invested a lot of time into it.

Upon that game's release it will have most if not all of the issues the doomsayers are QQing about right now.

Most of these doomsayers will be QQing on some other new game's forums a few months from now, and another's a few month's on. Note that they are QQing here rather than playing one of the other games that meet all their expectations that the market has to offer. (Mainly because those games don't exist.)

This isn't my first trip on the new game train. The doomsayers are always prooven wrong in the end.

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steadyhand amarr Amarr Immortal Volunteers 661	Posted - 2013.06.06 13:00:00 - [31] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: KatanaPT wrote: Basic flaw in your argument: Playstation 3 lifetime and if Sony sees its a failing game it wont support it trough PS4. A console isn't a PC. I think this hits the ***** nail on the ***** head. +1. I think numbers need to stay as high as possible and AUR purchases need to sustain the effort and allow a profit. I think Sony is more intrested in the tech that comes with Dust514. It's very useful testbed for data they can then use in plantside :-P:-P
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 102	Posted - 2013.06.06 13:58:00 - [32] - Quote I think there is a viability threshold for Dust 514. I will not guess at the numbers because I have no clue though I suspect current numbers to be on the low side. To be viable on a long term basis I believe they will need numbers similar to Eve. This based on the amount of Aurum etc items that need to be bought to pay for the Dust 514 teams and resources. Would anyone like to guess how much CCPs monthly costs are for this game is? Especially when you add in salaries. At a minimum it must be tens of thousands of Gé¼ if not more. Now you could say that there are probably 20k active players in all of the different time zones but we have no idea how many of them actually spend money on this game. Even if all 20k did spend money every month it would still be close to break even at best. If numbers do not improve then CCP has broadly 2 options: 1. Reduce staff and resources to the point they are making money. This would result in limited expansions at a slower pace but avoids closing the project completly and you have the permanent half life some have mentioned. 2. Go all in for the next couple of years. That is to say ignore current user figures, and the possible losses they may be making at the moment in the hopes that the larger team will improve the game to the point that it is comparable to a AAA game in terms of gameplay and has a more complex and involving back story and function than most of those games. My hope is obviously with option 2 as it result in me enjoying this game in years to come. However, I can not deny that Dust 514 has to improve in all respects if CCP wants to be able to hold its own against other AAA titles in the years to come. To those arguing about the PS4 my opinion is as follows. Dust does not need to be on the PS4 in the first year unless there are some dramatic updates to the game. However, I could see Dust 514 PS4 specials appearing for Christmas 2014. 2013 is all about the first adopters willing to pay high prices for the console and take the risk that there may still be issues with the hardware etc that need to be resolved. The major sales will come in the following year when the tech is proven and/or updated and the price is more reasonable and more accessories and games are on the market. As I see it CCP has 2 maybe 3 expansions to prove that Dust 514 has a viable, and growing, future so long as they fix the actual gameplay mechanics soon, and I do mean soon. Plenty of games have problems but most people will stick it out for a while if they see those problems resolved in a timely fashion. For me the priorities would be as follows: 1. Gameplay mechanics. If the gun game is not fluid and predictable and comparable to other FPS then you will loose most people before they bother to learn anything else about the game. 2. New modes including some variant of PVE. My preferences would be focused on squad based PVE but some solo would be good as well. 3. Introduction of all racial variants of existing versions. They can work on new models and introduce them with the expansions e.g. Proto tanks, jet fighters etc 4. Better and more profitable links to Eve. There are plenty of things I have not mentioned, like the open market, but these can be added as part of updating the game. I do not believe Dust 514 will fail but I have no idea what it will look like in a year. It could be an incredible and complex game or something very niche with a very small budget.
Atikali Havendoorr HERBGROWERS 18	Posted - 2013.06.06 14:34:00 - [33] - Quote Tharak Meuridiar wrote: Game: Mortal Online Age: 3-5 years old Status: Active Info: Mortal online is a first person sandbox MMO. It has a very unique crafting and skill system. It also has rampant bugs and balance issues that have been there since release. For instance sometimes the skillbar just doesn't work after logging in. You rush into the middle of a fight and find you aren't switching weapons or activating abilities when you press the button. Also of the hundreds or race/age combos for characters ~10 are viable with only 2-5 combos being viable for each role. These issues have been around since release and have not been dealt with but people still play this game because it's unique. [...] Holy macaroni! That is still alive? Hah! I was kinda involved in the development. One of my best friends worked on it as a graphics artist from start to first release. Management was terrible, totally senseless idea to start with an MMO as a first game ever for a team. The producer had very little knowledge about the gaming industry. They were running out of both time and money, which is more rule than exception, and management told them to work overtime, but didn't pay for it. Many left because of this. That-¦s why it kinda failed. But my mate stayed, just to have it on the CV. He left shortly after release. I took the picture of the whole team for the special edition art book. Wonder if it ever shipped. The idea was great, but the production was a failure. My mate is very good though, probably the best matte painter in Sweden. http://kupski.net/
PonyClause Rex TRAMADOL KNIGHTS 48	Posted - 2013.06.06 14:41:00 - [34] - Quote Now is the time CCP should be marketing Dust for PS4
Sergamon Draco Rautaleijona 36	Posted - 2013.06.06 15:39:00 - [35] - Quote Dust 514 dies if not converted next gen console (ps4)that is my opinion.
Kitten Empress Ametat Security Amarr Empire 299	Posted - 2013.06.06 15:48:00 - [36] - Quote These games are truly unique offering experience that no one else can. Same for EVE, it has no competition. Now, what about Dust? Well, its a FPS, which means its competeing in a highly saturated market of well refined shooters that got the basics to a science. The one thing Dust does better than them is customization. Time vs Reward requires too much time to get anywhere (yes there is a mathematical formula that knows when to reward people for x amount of time played), so progression isn't one of them. And CCP didn't take PC far enough for it to be considered a big plus. Maps aren't that big. Player counts aren't that good. Graphics are PS2.5 era. Aiming is terribad.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 217	Posted - 2013.06.07 01:45:00 - [37] - Quote Tharak Meuridiar wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I also predict that Dust will fail as soon as some other developer who is better at making FPS will make a game with permanent resources to fight over to support a robust clan warfare. Something like Planetside but only for consoles. People who came to Dust following a promise of a persistent world where actions have a permanent effect will turn right around and jump on the next boat. By the time that happens DUST 514 will have worked out many bugs, tied things together better, released more content, and people will have invested a lot of time into it. Upon that game's release it will have most if not all of the issues the doomsayers are QQing about right now. Most of these doomsayers will be QQing on some other new game's forums a few months from now, and another's a few month's on. Note that they are QQing here rather than playing one of the other games that meet all their expectations that the market has to offer. (Mainly because those games don't exist.) This isn't my first trip on the new game train. The doomsayers are always prooven wrong in the end. Do you play mostly PC games? For a new console game Dust falls far below average. But you know, I do wish that you are right. I would enjoy the game again and support CCP if only they wanted to do their job and fix what's broken.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 217	Posted - 2013.06.07 01:47:00 - [38] - Quote PonyClause Rex wrote: Now is the time CCP should be marketing Dust for PS4 LOL, that would be balls of them!
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2240	Posted - 2013.06.07 01:56:00 - [39] - Quote I'm sure Dust will continue to be rubbish for years to come, they'll port to PS4. PvE & Industry would probably go a long way towards helping the game survive.
Tharak Meuridiar The Empyrean Agency 30	Posted - 2013.06.07 02:20:00 - [40] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Do you play mostly PC games? For a new console game Dust falls far below average. But you know, I do wish that you are right. I would enjoy the game again and support CCP if only they wanted to do their job and fix what's broken. This is based off a more PC like model. Most PC shooters ship as finished products that may or may not include purchasable add-ons at a later date. Dust is running off the free-expansion MMO model which means the game is continually fixing bugs and adding more content for free as long as you pay the sub fee (which for this game is nothing). That may not appeal to the greater PS FPS crowd but it's worked well enough on the PC that it should draw a crowd large enough to support this title. There were 6000+ players when I logged on during my break. Which means this game is doing fine ATM. 6000+ online at one time suggests a population of tens or hundreds of thousands. Remember, the people paying the most for AUR lead productive lives that don't allow them to be online 24/7.

Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 74	Posted - 2013.06.07 02:31:00 - [41] - Quote This game has the special position of being able to fail with every new release. And it can even fail a few times over in between those times. It's really in a special spot. A unique game. None like it has ever existed.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 287	Posted - 2013.06.07 02:42:00 - [42] - Quote Give me long life or give me bacon. Ps: I really like bacon.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 774	Posted - 2013.06.07 03:16:00 - [43] - Quote Tharak Meuridiar wrote: Immortal Solder Alpha wrote: Dust has already failed. Servers online? Check People buying AUR? Check Thousands of players online? Check How has it failed? Oh that's right! You pulled your own criteria straight out of your kitten. Your equating failed to not having players online, so your kind of pulling that out of your own mind either. Your setting your own criteria for failure while then denying that same ability to set criteria to others...
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 774	Posted - 2013.06.07 03:20:00 - [44] - Quote Tharak Meuridiar wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I also predict that Dust will fail as soon as some other developer who is better at making FPS will make a game with permanent resources to fight over to support a robust clan warfare. Something like Planetside but only for consoles. People who came to Dust following a promise of a persistent world where actions have a permanent effect will turn right around and jump on the next boat. By the time that happens DUST 514 will have worked out many bugs, tied things together better, released more content, and people will have invested a lot of time into it. Upon that game's release it will have most if not all of the issues the doomsayers are QQing about right now. Most of these doomsayers will be QQing on some other new game's forums a few months from now, and another's a few month's on. Note that they are QQing here rather than playing one of the other games that meet all their expectations that the market has to offer. (Mainly because those games don't exist.) This isn't my first trip on the new game train. The doomsayers are always prooven wrong in the end. Also, you say with confidence it will be fixed but the issues you speak of have been issues for over a year in beta and yet there is little progress. Sorry, I don't buy that all of a sudden DUST will magically become better and fix its myriad problems, especially at this rate.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2591	Posted - 2013.06.07 03:34:00 - [45] - Quote Does anyone here remember Earth and Beyond? That happened to be one of the few games that actually did fail. This was also the game from which Eve Online saw an influx of new players shortly after.
Geth Massredux Defensores Doctrina 377	Posted - 2013.06.07 03:39:00 - [46] - Quote LMFAO to the person who said Dust 514 will fail.....
Bytrine Prototype Shoot it Strip it.INC 0	Posted - 2013.06.07 04:12:00 - [47] - Quote This game is great, but is hugely unbalanced. One grenade to kill a Tank? Really.... Even if it was one of the best grenades on the Marketplace, it shouldn't be able to blow up the tank in one go. The spawn system in the Ambush Game-mode is HUGELY crappy. I lost count at how many times I get spawn killed. The method of getting SP is hugely unbalanced. Though I understand they want it to take awhile, but after your given 500k (or is it 250k? idk) SP once character is made, do you know how long or how bad of a grind it is to just unlock ONE SKILL? Hours. To me, that is hugely unbalanced as you should get way more than 3,000 SP for every won/lost match. And I know my performance is decent as I can get a 10/0 in Ambush with a tank and I still averaged about 5k SP, when I need 143k just to unlock another level of Dropsuit Command. I love this game and see it's potential and it's very fun... but I think you should get way more Skill Points. I mean, if I can get 200k+ ISK in one match, why do I only get 3k SP? If they could boost it up to 10k SP for a LOST match, I'd be happy. I have 5,000,000+ ISK right now and no way to spend it as I am constantly grinding to unlock one level. (also, SP boosters are a waste of money and don't do much) I'm not being a doomsayer, or trying to be. I just don't like a few things and I want you all to recognize the flaws this game has, as well as it's many pros.
da GAND 187. Unclaimed. 3	Posted - 2013.06.09 05:39:00 - [48] - Quote Draka Marintu wrote: The PC community is alot more patient than the console community. Games die on console alot faster than pc if ccp doesn't get it together there not going to have a player base at this rate of updates this game will fail, and this failure will be on CCP's record permanently. They gotta remember that their mostly dealing with the FPS community here.
Tactic Angel GodsWolves 18	Posted - 2013.06.09 06:38:00 - [49] - Quote While I do not like the 'Dust will not fail because it is not as broken as these other awful games,' there is certainly a point there. I prefer to look at EVE and CCP's commitment to an ever growing and expanding experience. I played EVE for about two years, and while I was pretty much on the fringe of doing anything interesting, I do have to say that I could see the changes and improvements. I also played the beta, and for anyone to say that the game is as broken now as when I started is completely ridiculous. In the 4 or 5 major builds I have played, every one has provided improvements to the gameplay, stability, and overall experience. I probably wouldn't say we are at 'AAA shooter' today, but its just a matter of time.


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