| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1963
   |
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:17:00 -
[91] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:From what Mithridates said:
There is your circle of rock < paper < scissors < rock : AV < infantry < tanks < AV.
In order to make this work, infantry and AV need to have fully specialized suits. Tanks are already specialized. The problem that currently exists is that AVers want to be infantry as well. They don't want to die to infantry so they can kill tanks. Rock doesn't want to lose to paper while beating scissors either, but that's how it goes.
Again, infantry don't want to take the specialized role of AV but at the same time they want to beat tanks and other vehicles. That's the core underlying problem of this AV vs vehicle problem.
Note: infantry classifies anybody without AV capabilities
It's not rock paper scissors.
Tanks **** all over AV players all the time. So do infantry.
This is like rock not wanting to lose to paper while beating one instance of scissors and then somehow being cut up by the next scissors it encounters. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
211
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:31:00 -
[92] - Quote
So I guess it counts for nothing that AV sacrifices a lot of survivability vs. anti-personnel weapons. Tank weapons make short work of everyone regardless of their suit.
SWARM can be carried by anyone and only fires from a lock on. Fine. It can launch how many volleys how fast? And it's only 330 damage per missile (Min4 to max 6 at proto) that impacts before any skill/mods.
Plasma Cannon can be carried by anyone. I haven't used it, so I can't say much about it, but I hear it's AV.
Forge Gun can only be carried by heavies. Does good damage but has to charge between shots, has weapon shake, and slight scatter to contend with.
All AV has very limited ammo.
With all of these, the only thing an AV set up has that can be used in defense against other personnel are side arms, of which the Flaylock (that I don't use) is a beast. These defense measures are easily out ranged by everything except, maybe, the shotgun. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:35:00 -
[93] - Quote
Princeps Marcellus wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Princeps Marcellus wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Princeps Marcellus wrote:Look, I don't know what you experienced, but I was retreating in my Madrugar with all modules offline when someone with a single swarm (that means one shot) killed me. I was at 4000 armor, 100 shields. It seems like an absolutely silly amount of damage. What killed you? CBR7? Is that half armor for you? Is that full armor? Need more details. That wyrmkomi thingy, however you spell it. I have 4% natural skill armor resistance. I have 3 25% active armor hardeners (which were, as mentioned, offline), 6073 max armor, 10XX max shields, and a heavy repper which was also offline. You didn't mention anything you had. Fine. This is from before they bumped up vehicle health so some info might be out of date. Low: 180mm Reinforced Nanofibre Plates (20/928)(20/788.8) Carapace Armor Hardener (25/5) Carapace Armor Hardener (25/5) Carapace Armor Hardener (25/5) Heavy IG-L Polarized Armor Regenerator (21/896) High: F45 Peripheral Damage Control Unit (23/0) Turrets: 80GJ Railgun (60/900) AT-1 Cycled Missile Launcher (19/77) AT-1 Cycled Missile Launcher (19/77) Now, here are my (relevant) skills: Vehicle Armor Upgrades III (1.06% Armor resistance) Vehicle Core Upgrades V (1.05% PG/CPU) Vehicle Electronics III (1.15% CPU) Armor Adaptation V (0.85% PG cost of armor hardeners) Vehicle Armor Plating III (0.91% PG cost of armor plates) This pushes me into 6073 armor. Edit: made fairly large changes past the low slots.
That's a very basic fit. You're missing out on tank too to use that 3rd hardener. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1557
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:35:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:I love it when tankers pull the "I've spent more ISK and SP" card, as though that automatically entitles you an "I win" button. The problem is that vehicle pilots spend way more ISK and SP to get into a vehicle, that is actually much easier to kill than a regular dropsuit. There's no risk/reward, it's ALL risk. There's a difference between whinging about not being an I WIN BUTTON (like some people did back 6 months ago, when that is precisely what tanks were) and the perfectly valid complaint that AV has been buffed multiple times while vehicles have been repeatedly nerfed (except LAVs for some reason). The balance is currently terrible, and non-LAV vehicles aren't any fun to use because they are all paper thin. Most vehicle SP spent is simply not worth it. The first 700k SP you spend can put you in a tank with 10k eHP. After that, you're adding minuscule layers of defence on top.
but if you're trying to seriously use vehicles you need those extra layers of defense because they're so damn weak. You end up spending huge swathes of SP just trying to eek out enough to hopefully survive a tiny bit longer. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:38:00 -
[95] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
I used tanks and forge guns in the previous build.
Again previous build experience is irrelevant.
I fail to see how it's irrelevant. It means I know how difficult it is to use forge guns. As such, I don't call forge users a bunch of girls for having skilled into them. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
159
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:39:00 -
[96] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Mithridates VI wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Another Heavy SOB wrote:I love it when tankers pull the "I've spent more ISK and SP" card, as though that automatically entitles you an "I win" button. The problem is that vehicle pilots spend way more ISK and SP to get into a vehicle, that is actually much easier to kill than a regular dropsuit. There's no risk/reward, it's ALL risk. There's a difference between whinging about not being an I WIN BUTTON (like some people did back 6 months ago, when that is precisely what tanks were) and the perfectly valid complaint that AV has been buffed multiple times while vehicles have been repeatedly nerfed (except LAVs for some reason). The balance is currently terrible, and non-LAV vehicles aren't any fun to use because they are all paper thin. Most vehicle SP spent is simply not worth it. The first 700k SP you spend can put you in a tank with 10k eHP. After that, you're adding minuscule layers of defence on top. but if you're trying to seriously use vehicles you need those extra layers of defense because they're so damn weak. You end up spending huge swathes of SP just trying to eek out enough to hopefully survive a tiny bit longer.
If he's saying that all the other SP isn't worth it, he's doing it wrong. Very wrong |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1965
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 04:40:00 -
[97] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:If he's saying that all the other SP isn't worth it, he's doing it wrong. Very wrong
How is your tank doing in PC?
|
The Robot Devil
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
363
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 05:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Icy TIG3R wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:15k dmg seems a bit much, but I will be very happy with a working nav computer for the moronic missles and a higher missle velocity to actually get to a target before the round is over....
oh wait you were being sarcastic -_- Its homing. Which is EZ mode. Does that make plasma cannon the only hard mode? Forge gun versus most vehicles is like sniping a building and av nades have tracking.
Plasma Cannon = Very Hard mode. |
NAV HIV
The Generals
EoN.
228
|
Posted - 2013.06.06 13:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:15k dmg seems a bit much, but I will be very happy with a working nav computer for the moronic missles and a higher missle velocity to actually get to a target before the round is over....
oh wait you were being sarcastic -_- No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Forge guns are miles ahead of railguns in terms of damage, and it's far easier for a heavy to hide than a tank. Plus, tanks cost far more in terms of ISK, and is one of the most skill-intensive rolls in Dust. Why should I be defeated so easily?
Simply cause, YOU are not a tanker. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |