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dday3six
Intrepidus XI
0
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Posted - 2013.06.05 07:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
What supported the lone player gunning down 2, 3 or even 4 lower SP'd, lesser geared players was more then just the specs of the TAR, it was their deeper SP pool. While I certainly agree something needed to be done about the TAR, and can easily get behind lowering it's max RoF. Less hipfire accuracy and a smaller mag, seems a tad excessive. One or the other would have been fine. I can't help but draw comparsions to this and MP in ME3, were weapons were nerf-batted to an unusable state to soothe butthurt, rather then being scaled down for the sake of balance. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
91
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Nelo Angel0 wrote:I think CCP completely ignored the god damned damage output . IT suppose to be a long range, well short-mid range to mid -mid range, medium damage weapon. With the breach being a short range CQC high damage weapon. Why can't CCP just flip the damage stats on these guns? the breach could do the 70 and the TAC 50-56. Hell the breach wouldn't even be broken at those levels because of close people have to actually be to to take the full damage and the low ROF Semi auto weapons usually have very high damage and low ROF. Lowering ROF makes the most sense. Edit: Lowering damage would make the SR OP at 79 damage. The scr is actually how the tar should work. Lower the.rate of fire and decrease the clip size to 10, maybe 12. This will force people to actually use this weapon tactical. Habing 30 bullets in one clip on a tactical gun is just ridicoulus. |
James-5955
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
193
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:Nelo Angel0 wrote:I think CCP completely ignored the god damned damage output . IT suppose to be a long range, well short-mid range to mid -mid range, medium damage weapon. With the breach being a short range CQC high damage weapon. Why can't CCP just flip the damage stats on these guns? the breach could do the 70 and the TAC 50-56. Hell the breach wouldn't even be broken at those levels because of close people have to actually be to to take the full damage and the low ROF Semi auto weapons usually have very high damage and low ROF. Lowering ROF makes the most sense. Edit: Lowering damage would make the SR OP at 79 damage. The scr is actually how the tar should work. Lower the.rate of fire and decrease the clip size to 10, maybe 12. This will force people to actually use this weapon tactical. Habing 30 bullets in one clip on a tactical gun is just ridicoulus.
10 -12 on a TAC AR?
Talk about nerfing something into the ground. If this were a shooter like COD, or Rainbow Six, where it would only take a few shots to kill, it had all the range it needed, and so on then it'd make more sense. But for Dust? A game where people can move around so quickly, have so much HP, and swarm you easily as a group? Then taking into consideration the lag, bad frame rate in PC, and how difficult some people can be to hit if they know how to "dance" properly?
No, I'd NEVER use the Tac AR if it was nerfed as hard as you propose. At least with CCPs I could see it having a use, but at 10 - 12 I'd never even consider it. Not unless it dealt even more damage, or at least got something good in return.
No offense but that's the most ridiculous proposal for a nerf I've ever seen (related to Dust). I hope that was a joke. Does not fit the gameplay of Dust, not if it kept all the other stats the same as they are now. |
bonkersfox
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
72
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
semi autos are not much slower, 700 ram in real life, the problem is aim has to be re adjusted after every shot, with auto aim is adjusted after a burst, its not how fast the rifle fires, its how fast you can hit targets... |
Sontie
Ill Omens EoN.
579
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think it needs a 5-10 % damage buff now, to counter how often you're going to have to reload. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
all those nerfs are less effective then a over heat to jam that works like the scram rifle with out the damage. That allows for burst hi fire rates while favoring the well trained finger over the modded controller, you would be able to run the gun dry in most situation but pump out a quick burst when ever needed. I mean I've seen the damn thing used effectively at range, both in ads and not, with a modded at 8-12rps. With a heat build up you could knock that down to 5-6rps ave with an 5-8round burst at 15rps, not enough to turbo effectively but more then enough for the well trained trigger finger. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4896
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sontie wrote:I think it needs a 5-10 % damage buff now, to counter how often you're going to have to reload.
Hush you before they nerf it more. |
Sontie
Ill Omens EoN.
580
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
But they are going to nerf it to where it won't be usable in PC any more!!
Dude, I'm seriously hurting here! First my MD, not this? Maybe if they nerf the AR just a little then everything else will become balanced too...
I didn't like how the Duvole AR dominated Chromosome and now it's going to be worse than it was :( |
Spec Ops Cipher
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
87
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Posted - 2013.06.05 08:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
You can already get the damage up to over 100 easily. That's enough to kill 90% of players in pub games in 6 shots. |
dday3six
Intrepidus XI
0
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Posted - 2013.06.05 09:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
hgghyujh wrote:all those nerfs are less effective then a over heat to jam that works like the scram rifle with out the damage. That allows for burst hi fire rates while favoring the well trained finger over the modded controller, you would be able to run the gun dry in most situation but pump out a quick burst when ever needed. I mean I've seen the damn thing used effectively at range, both in ads and not, with a modded at 8-12rps. With a heat build up you could knock that down to 5-6rps ave with an 5-8round burst at 15rps, not enough to turbo effectively but more then enough for the well trained trigger finger.
The SR has an overheat mechanic to balance for the fact that it can OHK with Headshots, has little to no recoil, and does increased damage to Shields. Unless the TAR is going to get something similar it doesn't need a mechanic in that vain to be balanced, and certainly doesn't for the sake of weapon variety. |
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Blamejudg3s KEQ
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
46
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Posted - 2013.06.05 10:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:I'm implying that no other weapon in this game stands a chance in competitive play. That is to say, ARs are the only weapons that don't suck ATM.
HMGs look alright though, I think... haven't used one in a while. HMG's aren't bad tbh, but the hard range cap sucks. It sucks for ALL the weapons, minus the tact. but for a heavy it's more noticeable cuz he can't close the gap as fast as an AR player can. When CCP removes the hard cap, guns will feel allot better.
The hardcap should of already been removed. Stole all the fun outta the game. |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers DARKSTAR ARMY
230
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Posted - 2013.06.05 11:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nelo Angel0 wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:Nelo Angel0 wrote:I think CCP completely ignored the god damned damage output . IT suppose to be a long range, well short-mid range to mid -mid range, medium damage weapon. With the breach being a short range CQC high damage weapon. Why can't CCP just flip the damage stats on these guns? the breach could do the 70 and the TAC 50-56. Hell the breach wouldn't even be broken at those levels because of close people have to actually be to to take the full damage and the low ROF Semi auto weapons usually have very high damage and low ROF. Lowering ROF makes the most sense. it would make sense. But it wouldn't change the fact that the TAR is suppose to be a medium damage weapon, waiting for CCP to either fix the wording or fix the damage, if they keep the damage the same, even with the new clip size/ROF, they would need to lower the range abit *cough*orbetteryetraisetherangefortheSR*cough* mhhmm pretty mean cough . They didn't really have to do all this (lowering ROF and clip) so much as they could've lowered the damage and given it less range as well as increased dispersion/kick when not ADS(which they kinda did anyway). In turn they could've given the breach AR the TARs damage and quite frankly no one would notice because of the ****** range/rof on it. Then when the gauss rifle is released it could have better range/much lower ROF/higher damage output/lower clip. It'd basically be a hybrid between SR and TAR. don't know if it'd need a charge time though Quick note: since you brought up the SR. You're forgetting it has an overheat and lower damage to armor. Aside from that if im correct 79 isn't the base damage that's the charged damage. In either case it also has less range then the TAR with again an overheat.
ccp stated they would be taking these steps first and if needed they then would adjust damage. they want to do it in stages so they dont nerf it to useless in one step and then have to buff it back.... so patience. i am sure if this doesnt put it in line with its role rather than OP weapon of the week they will adjust again. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
278
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Guys, the hip fire spread is what is going to turn this gun around from being nerfed. Compare the TAR to the SCR right now, the thing that makes the TAR so dominant is how you can run around fiiring from him accurately in CQ and mid range.That's the biggest thing that makes the SCR more difficult for me to use.
Clip size, rof, meh. It will be harder to run 2-3 kills in a row with it now. Lots of people complained about burning through ammo with the TAR, but I never did. I guess I might have been "using it right." But yeah, its mainly the hipfire that will make it a ton less OP. |
Mike Poole
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
140
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Pathetic "nerf" as expected.
Wish CCP had been this gentle and caring when they destroyed the Mass Driver.
Now it will just take 1.5 seconds for a modded controller to wipe the floor with everyone instead of 1 second. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
278
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:Now it will just take 1.5 seconds for a modded controller to wipe the floor with everyone instead of 1 second.
Eh, except firing those shots from the hip now wont be accurate. Look, if you are caught running in a way that makes it easy to land a ton of shots without needing to adjust aim, you are dead. Thats how this game is.
The TAR had the unique advantage of being able to dominate at range and CQ cause of hip fire. The reduction there will nerf the TAR. You will still die to it if you are caught by it, or if folks focus fire from mid/long. But no more Halo style, hopping, run and gun in your face with the TAR owning. |
Solomon Malcolm
BurgezzE.T.F
23
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
So, who's still going to use the Tac? I legitimately use it for my Logi fit being a medic, so ill still pick this up. My main is regular assault rifles anyway. |
Mother Facker
Ill Omens EoN.
2
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Sontie wrote:18? Did they increase the reload speed? Please tell me they increased the reload speed. There's a skill for that, level it up. The AR reload skill is a 6x skill and only reduces the reload speed of an AR by 0.45 seconds when maxed. |
mikegunnz
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
606
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 14:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Would have been acceptable if mag capacity of Glu went from 24 to 18, and the Duv Tact from 30 to 24. 18 is a bit excessive for the Duvolle. ROF and Hipfire nerf sound good.
I think either the damage should be bumped up another 5-6pts (to offset the large reduction in mag capacity) OR the range gets buffed another 10-20m.
Before the Tac haters cry: Think about it. (going off memory) A Duvolle does 37dmg per round x 60 rounds, means 2220 dmg per magazine.
Duv Tact has 78 dmg per round x 18 rounds, means 1404 dmg per magazine. Seems a little low. A player will barely be able to take down a high level Heavy with a FULL magazine. (thats assuming they hit with almost every shot) |
Cody Sietz
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
202
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Sontie wrote:18? Did they increase the reload speed? Please tell me they increased the reload speed. There's a app for that, level it up. Fixed. |
Nelo Angel0
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
45
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Would have been acceptable if mag capacity of Glu went from 24 to 18, and the Duv Tact from 30 to 24. 18 is a bit excessive for the Duvolle. ROF and Hipfire nerf sound good. I think either the damage should be bumped up another 5-6pts (to offset the large reduction in mag capacity) OR the range gets buffed another 10-20m NO. Before the Tac haters cry: Think about it. (going off memory) A Duvolle does 37dmg per round x 60 rounds, means 2220 dmg per magazine. Duv Tact has 78 dmg per round x 18 rounds, means 1404 dmg per magazine. Seems a little low. A player will barely be able to take down a high level Heavy with a FULL magazine. (thats assuming they hit with almost every shot)
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French CRONOS.
1512
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Posted - 2013.06.05 14:58:00 -
[51] - Quote
Still got to try that brand new Tac AR. But if it got too nerfed, the best solution to make it usefull would be to lower the recoil through ADS by a good amount.
It would remain the deadliest long range AR but a ***** to use at short range... which is kind of the point afaik. |
Chris F2112
187. Unclaimed.
197
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Posted - 2013.06.05 15:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Still got to try that brand new Tac AR. But if it got too nerfed, the best solution to make it usefull would be to lower the recoil through ADS by a good amount.
It would remain the deadliest long range AR but a ***** to use at short range... which is kind of the point afaik.
The rate of fire is low enough now that there is no noticable recoil on your shots. |
Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
6
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 22:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi guys,
We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.
WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.
CCP Wolfman
What do you guys think?
At 77,000 isk, the Douville TAC is a premium priced weapon. I don't see why it has to be nerfed at all.
Just to get your hands on one you have to climb awfully high on the AR skill tree. Then if you die with it, including suit and equipment, you can be out 150,000 isk per death.
I feel like if I pay that much to get that weapon, it should be static, or get better, not get worse.
However, that being said, I love this game and all that it offers. I appreciate all that you guys do.
( just don't know if I can survive. I suck at other weapons.)
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Gods Architect
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
126
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Posted - 2013.06.05 22:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
You nerfed it, you bastards at the very least increase reload speed. And hip fire reduced that, no way in hell a TAR should have a spread of a AR |
Gods Architect
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
126
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Posted - 2013.06.05 22:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Phosis Norg wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi guys,
We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.
WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.
CCP Wolfman
What do you guys think? At 77,000 isk, the Douville TAC is a premium priced weapon. I don't see why it has to be nerfed at all. Just to get your hands on one you have to climb awfully high on the AR skill tree. Then if you die with it, including suit and equipment, you can be out 150,000 isk per death. I feel like if I pay that much to get that weapon, it should be static, or get better, not get worse. However, that being said, I love this game and all that it offers. I appreciate all that you guys do. ( just don't know if I can survive. I suck at other weapons.) +1 well you get fine cars and bad bitchez, reduced the price of the TAR if your going to nerf it like that |
echo47
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.06.05 23:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Nelo Angel0 wrote:I think CCP completely ignored the god damned damage output . IT suppose to be a long range, well short-mid range to mid -mid range, medium damage weapon. With the breach being a short range CQC high damage weapon. Why can't CCP just flip the damage stats on these guns? the breach could do the 70 and the TAC 50-56. Hell the breach wouldn't even be broken at those levels because of close people have to actually be to to take the full damage and the low ROF Semi auto weapons usually have very high damage and low ROF. Lowering ROF makes the most sense. Edit: Lowering damage would make the SR OP at 79 damage.
There is that phrase again OP how is over powered defined? |
Phosis Norg
Mad Clone Posse
6
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Posted - 2013.06.06 20:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi guys,
We are performing final tests on an update today. As long as all goes well and the game doesn't explode we will be deploying some changes to the TAC as well as fixing the explosives skill that wasnGÇÖt working. The TAC has clip size reduced to 18, increased dispersion when hip firing and a lower ROF cap.
WeGÇÖll be watching carefully to see what kind of impact this has on weapon performance.
CCP Wolfman
What do you guys think?
I gave it a couple of dozen matches to see. Now, I have to say I'm angry. You guys listened to people who spent their skill points on other weapons and suits and who didn't like the idea that their Heavy was not completely dominant.
Perhaps they spent their SPs on tanks and tank modules and now want to have a competitive infantry weapon but now it's such a long road.
I know I am not the only person that was getting massacred by Doui TACs, who made the decision to skill up and get my own. Then when I did, you turned it into a bb gun. I don't see how this far AFTER beta, you can make such a change. It took a lot of play to skill up to that weapon. I'm sure you are saying "oh well, sucks to be you".
But the people who harassed you into making the changes, are happily continuing on with their weapon of choice, they don't have to discipline themselves to follow that skill tree because you took away the competition for them.
When I finally got to the level of a Douvolle Tactical about a week ago, I started actually having fun with the game. I was no longer just fodder. I was getting kills. I bought 50 of them on Tuesday night for 3.8Mil isk, not knowing that the following morning they would be boat anchors. Well, they wouldn't be good at that either.
Anyway, I'm done. I know you guys won't miss me. You got my $500 over the past couple of months. So I'm sure you're happy enough. However, I don't think you have well set moral compasses.
You don't lay out a completely changed skill tree and tell people to follow a path and at the end you can have this weapon, then when they do said path, you say "oops, sucks to be you, we changed our minds because the Heavy's are complaining".
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