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Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
516
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Please do not resort to personal attacks. I rarely do this and refrain from it.
Its not a personal attack. I didn't say I wanted him to die. I didn't say that I was something. I'm a nobody when it comes to this game just like everyone else. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
123
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Delta 749 wrote: Respect for the title was there but many of the CPM have lost that respect due to their actions and behavior Really think about it, when was the last time you heard of people wanting to get rid of say Nova Knife? He carries himself in a respectable manner from what Ive seen and others respect him for it If the stress of the position is getting to others like Wolf who is getting snippy and making thinly veiled threats if he even bothers with trying to veil them in the first place then they can quit and the community will be none worse for the wear and we might be able to get around to electing our own representatives Ha, no there is general respect. Just because you don't think someone deserves it doesn't mean you withold it. Like you. I have no respect for you. I don't care if you get hit by a truck or get cancer. In fact, if you died right now, it might make it easier for people to see what I posted. See, thats called a lack of respect. But I don't need to respect you. Thats because you have no authority or influence. You are nothing. Now if you disagree with Iron Wolf, flaming him isn't going to get you any points. Its going to make him angry and maybe he will actively work to sabotage you. I've see stuff like that before. However, as long as he wears the CPM title, he does have somewhat of a say and if you actually want the game to get better, speaking in a civil tone will net you more results then saying. "Go die in a fire"
Your second sentence contradicts so much of your post but I like how you go wishing cancer on people if they dont agree with you Real classy move
As for Wolf I have seen people be civil when bringing things up and then getting a "Durr hurr try harder" type response and even if that doesnt happen everytime when it does happen its enough to lower peoples opinion of him just that much further And like I said before if it all gets to be too much then he can just step away, no one is twisting his arm to stay on as CPM and I know lots of people are anxious to replace not just him but all current CPMs with ones the playerbase has voted for instead of ones assigned to us |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4769
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Please do not resort to personal attacks. I rarely do this and refrain from it.
Its not a personal attack. I didn't say I wanted him to die. I didn't say that I was something. I'm a nobody when it comes to this game just like everyone else.
No, we are all somebodies. Just some take more time than others to find out who that somebody is. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4769
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:
Your second sentence contradicts so much of your post but I like how you go wishing cancer on people if they dont agree with you Real classy move
As for Wolf I have seen people be civil when bringing things up and then getting a "Durr hurr try harder" type response and even if that doesnt happen everytime when it does happen its enough to lower peoples opinion of him just that much further And like I said before if it all gets to be too much then he can just step away, no one is twisting his arm to stay on as CPM and I know lots of people are anxious to replace not just him but all current CPMs with ones the playerbase has voted for instead of ones assigned to us
The problem with my statement of Try Harder is that most people DONT. I applaud those that are doing so lately on the battlefield however. Adapting and Surviving at the finest. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
516
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote: Your second sentence contradicts so much of your post but I like how you go wishing cancer on people if they dont agree with you Real classy move
Learn 2 Read. I said I don't care if you got it, not that I actively wished it on you. The point being that we are faceless and meaningless beings to each other. Your life has no impact on me and vice versa. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3140
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:All I am asking for is would the current pilots stop being so stubborn and actually try to talk to me? Not by me, not around or behind me, but at me.
Because I am sorta getting tired putting quite a bit of effort in trying to understand ANY their problems. In my efforts I have identified quite a large number quality of life issues but as for verifying their generic complaints I am having near zero success in.
This isn't like the HMG use where I can verify that the HMG only did kill at 10-15 meters. Or run up to a guy in an assault suit and beat a heavy armed with an HMG to death before they fixed it. The whole AVvV thing is a very complicated 'Environment' its not a situation, its not any specific vehicle, its not a specific module, its the whole damn thing. I would love to spend more SP into the environment better but I have to be able to verify other complaints to not just that of pilots alone. True CCP did make a game balanced on end gear. However in that theory player own skills should override gear disadvantages regardless I've seen you show up in vehicle and AV threads, and bring your opinions instead of listening to the people who have a higher level of experience in the area you're talking about.
People point out that they're seeing high-level AV grenades failing to deal significant damage to well-fitted LAVs, and you use an example of a single AV Grenade killing the LAV you're in when you didn't fit it yourself and don't know exactly how it was fitted. You then use that one example to claim that the issue isn't worth considering and dismiss it. It's perfectly reasonable for people to become aggressive towards your refusal to listen to them in that case.
You've shown up in threads where high-tier tank drivers are explaining that their fits are having to be rebuilt repeatedly because of changes, nerfs, etc. and you're saying "well I can keep my Sica alive" and once again using that to negate the validity of their examples where they don't get the same luck.
You're NOT backing up the people who dedicate themselves to vehicles, OR the people who dedicate themselves to AV. You're arguing that our evidence isn't as important as yours, even when we know the full details of what we're talking about and you don't. Your examples of Militia and Standard gear don't negate the top-tier players talking about how the game should work. Your examples running as a gunner or passenger in a vehicle you don't know the full fitting details of are NOT a good counter to people who know every detail of their fitting and most of the relevant details about what killed them. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
124
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Delta 749 wrote:
Your second sentence contradicts so much of your post but I like how you go wishing cancer on people if they dont agree with you Real classy move
As for Wolf I have seen people be civil when bringing things up and then getting a "Durr hurr try harder" type response and even if that doesnt happen everytime when it does happen its enough to lower peoples opinion of him just that much further And like I said before if it all gets to be too much then he can just step away, no one is twisting his arm to stay on as CPM and I know lots of people are anxious to replace not just him but all current CPMs with ones the playerbase has voted for instead of ones assigned to us
The problem with my statement of Try Harder is that most people DONT.
No the problem is that its overly flippant I dont know how you see the position since Ive never asked you but a lot of people here see the title as someone that should be somewhat serious when concerns are mentioned rather than brushing them off Hell, do you know how much better you would come off if instead of "try harder" you said something like "This is what I do and it works for me, why dont you try it as well" Even if they were just placations I can almost guarantee that if you responded in that way you wouldnt have people asking for you to be stripped of the CPM title |
KrazyEyeKilla
Greek Death Squad
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
@Jason Pearson.
Don't mean to highjack the thread but you LAV takes 5 Lai Dais? Seriously? |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
516
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've seen you show up in vehicle and AV threads, and bring your opinions instead of listening to the people who have a higher level of experience in the area you're talking about.
People point out that they're seeing high-level AV grenades failing to deal significant damage to well-fitted LAVs, and you use an example of a single AV Grenade killing the LAV you're in when you didn't fit it yourself and don't know exactly how it was fitted. You then use that one example to claim that the issue isn't worth considering and dismiss it. It's perfectly reasonable for people to become aggressive towards your refusal to listen to them in that case.
You've shown up in threads where high-tier tank drivers are explaining that their fits are having to be rebuilt repeatedly because of changes, nerfs, etc. and you're saying "well I can keep my Sica alive" and once again using that to negate the validity of their examples where they don't get the same luck.
You're NOT backing up the people who dedicate themselves to vehicles, OR the people who dedicate themselves to AV. You're arguing that our evidence isn't as important as yours, even when we know the full details of what we're talking about and you don't. Your examples of Militia and Standard gear don't negate the top-tier players talking about how the game should work. Your examples running as a gunner or passenger in a vehicle you don't know the full fitting details of are NOT a good counter to people who know every detail of their fitting and most of the relevant details about what killed them.
See, now this has the basis for a great post. Its well thought out, its aggressive without being to confrontational. It uses reason instead of "Nah nah nah you suck". However his message is implied rather then spelled out when he is saying, the going forward part. "Why do you think your opinion is better then the opinions of everyone who has more experience then you. If you don't know something fully, why not consult experts, thats what people do when they really want things to work right" |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
I had no quarrel with him until I red the part about one proto nade killing a militia LAV... |
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Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1431
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:I had no quarrel with him until I red the part about one proto nade killing a militia LAV... Ansiiis.. Not only do I have to teach you how to shoot but I have to teach you how to read?! :P I kid, but he said one proto grenade took out a LLAV. |
Daalzebul Del'Armgo
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
All I am asking for is would the current pilots stop being so stubborn and actually try to talk to me? Not by me, not around or behind me, but at me.
Because I am sorta getting tired putting quite a bit of effort in trying to understand ANY their problems. In my efforts I have identified quite a large number quality of life issues but as for verifying their generic complaints I am having near zero success in.
This isn't like the HMG use where I can verify that the HMG only did kill at 10-15 meters. Or run up to a guy in an assault suit and beat a heavy armed with an HMG to death before they fixed it. The whole AVvV thing is a very complicated 'Environment' its not a situation, its not any specific vehicle, its not a specific module, its the whole damn thing. I would love to spend more SP into the environment better but I have to be able to verify other complaints to not just that of pilots alone. True CCP did make a game balanced on end gear. However in that theory player own skills should override gear disadvantages regardless
you want pilot info hit me up on skype =p |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3140
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:@Jason Pearson.
Don't mean to highjack the thread but you LAV takes 5 Lai Dais? Seriously? It's believable with a Caldari LLAV I'm not sure a Gallente could manage it though. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
78
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
@ Iron Wolf Saber.
I am not going to comment on what has been said on this thread but I did notice that you had problems investigating specific issues due to your level of SP and how you have used it. Now I assume you have alts that you have set up for different tasks but I can not imagine that you have lots of SP in them unless you are playing 23/7.
So my suggestions, which I hope help, are as follows:
1. Talk to the specialists, which you are already doing, and go into battle with them. 2. If you have specific questions/issues that you need answering then set up a thread asking those questions and saying what it is you need. 3. Ask CCP to set up test accounts called CPM Test or something similiar which has unlimited SP and Isk which can be manually reset, in terms of SP spent on skills, or resets after a week. This way you and the others can test out everything from militia fits to full protos with max skills.
From the sounds of it you are already doing options 1 and 2 but I think option 3 could really help your investigations of specific issues. |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1431
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:@Jason Pearson.
Don't mean to highjack the thread but you LAV takes 5 Lai Dais? Seriously?
Left me with about 400 armor, was stupidly close xD |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
119
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
+1 for CPM overthrow |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4769
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I've seen you show up in vehicle and AV threads, and bring your opinions instead of listening to the people who have a higher level of experience in the area you're talking about.
People point out that they're seeing high-level AV grenades failing to deal significant damage to well-fitted LAVs, and you use an example of a single AV Grenade killing the LAV you're in when you didn't fit it yourself and don't know exactly how it was fitted. You then use that one example to claim that the issue isn't worth considering and dismiss it. It's perfectly reasonable for people to become aggressive towards your refusal to listen to them in that case.
You've shown up in threads where high-tier tank drivers are explaining that their fits are having to be rebuilt repeatedly because of changes, nerfs, etc. and you're saying "well I can keep my Sica alive" and once again using that to negate the validity of their examples where they don't get the same luck.
You're NOT backing up the people who dedicate themselves to vehicles, OR the people who dedicate themselves to AV. You're arguing that our evidence isn't as important as yours, even when we know the full details of what we're talking about and you don't. Your examples of Militia and Standard gear don't negate the top-tier players talking about how the game should work. Your examples running as a gunner or passenger in a vehicle you don't know the full fitting details of are NOT a good counter to people who know every detail of their fitting and most of the relevant details about what killed them.
Well I am sure a video or reproduction of steps and characteristics of the environment causing the AV grenade to fail to do its full damage and then proving that a good throw goes bad and can be scientifically reproduced is infinitely far more helpful than a generalized complaint. Unfortunately I haven't found the magic pattern myself and nobody here can seem to describe why its failing either because so far, LAVs have been the only vehicle to exhibit this behavior and it may be a combination of lag and projectile tracking done by the server, or it could be worse and its related to a bug. Either way evidence of either would be more helpful.
As for the whole fitting thing I am entirely powerless to do anything about that. CCP is cooking up a new environment so even if I 'could' comment about modules and the sorts its not going to be the same in the 'new environment.' Hell I don't know how its all going to get done either. Things are going to get looked at and questions are going to be asked and I am sure that even I won't be able to answer stuff about it. Sure it may look good on paper but until it's practiced we won't know.
Also I am sure you as a good player understands surviving in anything is a combination of both gear and player's own skills.
My Sica survives solely because I try to play the way I expect the HAV to play, infantry support and anti-vehicle. Combining it with cover tactics and knowing when to pull back and rest the modules bit. If you press this Sica hard enough it will crack and it cracks easily. I die near instantly sometimes but when that normally happens I attribute myself at fault. Like I shouldn't have drove though that hostile squad. I shouldn't try to take a hostile tank squadron one at a time and I need to stay out of the Railgun's FOV when going in behind it for the kill. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4769
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 11:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
A'Real Fury wrote:@ Iron Wolf Saber.
I am not going to comment on what has been said on this thread but I did notice that you had problems investigating specific issues due to your level of SP and how you have used it. Now I assume you have alts that you have set up for different tasks but I can not imagine that you have lots of SP in them unless you are playing 23/7.
So my suggestions, which I hope help, are as follows:
1. Talk to the specialists, which you are already doing, and go into battle with them. 2. If you have specific questions/issues that you need answering then set up a thread asking those questions and saying what it is you need. 3. Ask CCP to set up test accounts called CPM Test or something similiar which has unlimited SP and Isk which can be manually reset, in terms of SP spent on skills, or resets after a week. This way you and the others can test out everything from militia fits to full protos with max skills.
From the sounds of it you are already doing options 1 and 2 but I think option 3 could really help your investigations of specific issues.
We already discussed a max skilled character and concluded such characters would be... bad for the live environment. A test server/environment is more preferable. I mean they're already removing the isk caused by the respeccing hiccup. That is how delicate the current live environment is right now that things like that cannot be allowed to exist. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
167
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lilah Silverstone wrote:Because calling out one of the more active CPM reps is definitely a good way to get your opinions heard.
Passive aggressive snark doesn't make you right.
I haven't been paying attention to his posts... but his first post in this thread was a passive aggressive threat. It can't be seen any other way. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maybe pilots should learn how to complain better because I am having an extremely difficult time to finding out 'what exactly' the problem is, but if you wish I'll tell CCP everything's fine nothing needs to be fixed at all.
So be it.
I had such a nice list of things that outside of numbers needs fixing, mostly quality of life stuff for vehicles and AV in general.
Things like fix the small missile turret from exploding itself while the vehicle is moving. It's because the headrest for shield LAVs is higher than for armor, which causes the missile to detonate on the vehicle itself. It's especially bad when moving, over any kind of terrain, because you can rarely successfully get a shot off in a 90 degree angle towards the front of the vehicle.
Turrets for dropships needs to be fixed, because 1, they're going to the up and forward position automatically when in a certain range of the front of the ship. Second, either the bottom of the ships ought to be redesigned, or a greater firing area when in the turret, because the area you can shoot without hitting the ship is still pretty small when you're above a target. |
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Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
518
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Lilah Silverstone wrote:Because calling out one of the more active CPM reps is definitely a good way to get your opinions heard. Passive aggressive snark doesn't make you right. I haven't been paying attention to his posts... but his first post in this thread was a passive aggressive threat. It can't be seen any other way.
Sometimes there is only so much you can take before you get alittle snarky. Its a hard job that doesn't have any pay. I wouldn't want to do it, but mostly because of the NDA. I would fail horribly at that.
But it looks like he is responding well to the other post. I don't have any knowledge of AV vs vehicles because I am just straight up infantry and fluxer. |
Felix Faraday
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
You want some pilot feedback?
Give Railgun and Forge Gun shots a trail like sniper rounds. Nothing is more frustrating than being chased around the entire map, high and low, and not being able to find out what the %$@#$ is shooting at you so I can shoot back.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1665
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 12:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Felix Faraday wrote:You want some pilot feedback?
Give Railgun and Forge Gun shots a trail like sniper rounds. Nothing is more frustrating than being chased around the entire map, high and low, and not being able to find out what the %$@#$ is shooting at you so I can shoot back.
I can't +1 this hard enough. The damn shots need vapor trails or something just like sniper shots.
A reduction to projectile velocity would be nice as well, but god forbid we make the RG/Forge crowd have to lead their targets. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3144
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
So, Iron Wolf...
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83233&find=unread
Hopefully the above link provides better feedback than you've been getting so far. It only has my opinions at the moment, but if some more well-reasoned discussion can happen, please listen to it and look at the experience the posters in question are speaking from, and please don't throw isolated rare events in as arguments against our conclusions. Just... READ and take in what the experts are saying. Please? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3341
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 13:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maybe pilots should learn how to complain better because I am having an extremely difficult time to finding out 'what exactly' the problem is, but if you wish I'll tell CCP everything's fine nothing needs to be fixed at all.
This coming from the guy who said "learn to fly better" in one of the more useful dropship feedback threads?
Lmao
**** you man. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4782
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 18:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:So, Iron Wolf... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83233&find=unreadHopefully the above link provides better feedback than you've been getting so far. It only has my opinions at the moment, but if some more well-reasoned discussion can happen, please listen to it and look at the experience the posters in question are speaking from, and please don't throw isolated rare events in as arguments against our conclusions. Just... READ and take in what the experts are saying. Please?
Thanks Garret I'll give the thread a read.
Felix Faraday wrote:You want some pilot feedback?
Give Railgun and Forge Gun shots a trail like sniper rounds. Nothing is more frustrating than being chased around the entire map, high and low, and not being able to find out what the %$@#$ is shooting at you so I can shoot back.
I have been asking for this since... codex. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4782
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 18:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maybe pilots should learn how to complain better because I am having an extremely difficult time to finding out 'what exactly' the problem is, but if you wish I'll tell CCP everything's fine nothing needs to be fixed at all.
This coming from the guy who said "learn to fly better" in one of the more useful dropship feedback threads? Lmao **** you man.
I am a bit hazy about that one mind reminding me which one that is? |
grreen mctree
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 18:05:00 -
[58] - Quote
Hahaha wow. you people are the reason dust is the way it is. Hahahaha |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4783
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 18:09:00 -
[59] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Maybe pilots should learn how to complain better because I am having an extremely difficult time to finding out 'what exactly' the problem is, but if you wish I'll tell CCP everything's fine nothing needs to be fixed at all.
So be it.
I had such a nice list of things that outside of numbers needs fixing, mostly quality of life stuff for vehicles and AV in general.
Things like fix the small missile turret from exploding itself while the vehicle is moving. It's because the headrest for shield LAVs is higher than for armor, which causes the missile to detonate on the vehicle itself. It's especially bad when moving, over any kind of terrain, because you can rarely successfully get a shot off in a 90 degree angle towards the front of the vehicle. Turrets for dropships needs to be fixed, because 1, they're going to the up and forward position automatically when in a certain range of the front of the ship. Second, either the bottom of the ships ought to be redesigned, or a greater firing area when in the turret, because the area you can shoot without hitting the ship is still pretty small when you're above a target.
I agree the guns should be like belly mounted or wing mounted or something and what I would not kill for some gyro stabilization as well. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
1920
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 18:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
Much as I think some of the things he's said like "learn to fly better" are complete garbage insulting him really isn't the way to go about getting things sorted. Honestly, I really wish we'd had a dedicated vehicle guy on the CPM, but you go with what you got, at least guys like IWS and kain have showed they are willing to listen.
And iron wolf, the biggest problem IMO is with AV right now, they go all the way up to proto while the vehicle hulls don't, it leads to a huge imbalance across the whole spectrum. You end up with situation where an advanced forge gun is doing 5-6 times the damage the top tier light modules can repair in the exact same time span, and that's before you start adding in skills.
Honestly, I think quite a few of the problems with AV/Vehicles would be sorted by the introduction of things like countermeasures, but we have no idea when things like that are coming.
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