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XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
329
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:21:00 -
[91] - Quote
Everyone talks about people who would abuse it to spec into the flavor of the month.
This is the truth. Easiest fix to this would to be have a balanced game. Which I imagine CCP is working on.
Granted, if the game is actually balanced, there would be less of a reason for people to constantly respec. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1078
|
Posted - 2013.06.04 06:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
Stephen Rao wrote:I support a once-per-PSN respec, and it should only be available when you graduate the Newb Academy.
Once a player realizes that they shouldn't have put all that SP in Corp skills ect, I feel that they should get the opportunity to change their SP choices. It will be a one-time offer, and it will allow for mistakes to be adjusted after a player gets used to the SP tree, the game mechanics, and has a feel for what they want to spec into. It will not allow the players to choose when it will be used as I envision that upon graduating they will be presented with the option, that will be valid until they play their first non-academy game.
Anything other than this is would be bad for the game. As anyone reading this thread knows I am against respecs and have quite a host of reasons for being so. Having said that I want to say that I could still support the above proposal as it avoids the lions share of problems created by unlimited respecs and it prevents "caching" of respecs on high SP characters (which could lead to many of the previously mentioned problems on another scale).
Combining the above proposal of a single respec per PSN idea offered on a "yes/no" basis after graduation from the Academy with an adaptation of the EVE style 'remap' (which allows players to gain discounted training costs in a specilized area at the cost of higher SP requirements within others) on a once yearly cool down (that is one year between uses, specific dates of "new years" having no effect on the timer) would provide players with options for dealing with the concerns raised in this thread presented as motives for a respec (excluding those motives such as a lack of patience and/or believe that the game will succeed, neither of which should be catered to by development).
Thanks Stephen for putting forward this idea so succinctly. Cross |
St Evilsbitch
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
59
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Posted - 2013.06.12 20:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
Rachoi wrote:Flavor of The Moth builds... where do i begin?
they are nothing but fleeting FADS, and do not stand up to the real tests that people should see in a long time persistant game. there is a point where shifting about is fine, but a total wipe and rebuild on even a bi-monthly basis would lead to making your build, getting tired of the build, and whining for another respec. and it turns into a painful cycle untill you've tried enough things and then walk away. games that have done that have in many ways, just up and died because of a mass loss in player base.
also, if you rely on those that respec all the time, they will always either cry OP or UP, because they spec into someting, whine about how bad it is, then whine that the choice they made before was killing them so effectively it does get nerfed. we need to keep solid numbers and figures in this game.
thsoe spreadsheets are courtesy of EVE players that did not want to have to worry about a respec, so they came up with something that works reletively well here in DUST, so that way you can actually plan ahead and reduce the likelyhood of mistakes. it adds to some of the longevity, and what people might think of doing after they have added enough to what they've chosen.
this is going to be a LONG TERM game, hopefully long as EVE got to recently, and running a game for so long will take alot of tweaks, shifts and fixes. you are probably one of many that make mistakes in the game, and think that to have fun you actually need the best things. hell, i made mistakes too, but i chose to live with them, because i knew i could fix what i was lacking in. i see why others want Respecs, but i honestly cannot support it.
Long term thinking, its what CCP is doing, its what alot of the good players are doing, i'm afraid you need to think that as well, and work at it. but have fun with what you've got, that way you know what you can and cant do effectively as you go.
It is not the PLAYERS fault CCP over nerfs/ fixes working game mechanics.You say these players are making mistakes, you are wrong. CCP has ninja nerfed several things I skilled into. How does this make it "MY MISTAKE"? You make an assumption of player error, so your core argument falls apart. My shotgun apparently does less damage since I used skill points on it. My scan profile went from -25% to -10% overnight. My scout suit actual runs slower then advertised. My armor ( and for all I know my shield) resistance skills get a stacking penalty?
As far as I can tell you are on the wrong side of this argument. A respec hurts no one, and would be a powerful tool for a new player just learning this game. If you don't like repecs don't use them, but don't **** on everyone's enjoyment because you are a miserable person so everyone else should be too.
To the other posters below this post from Rachoi I agree with most of what you are saying. 1. we should not have to wait for months to get better descriptions, and when we finally get them we should get the option to re-allocate those skill points. 2. As far as ninja nerfing is concerned, you are wrong, I feel betrayed and slighted. (not talking about any tac nerf) 3. We agree new players deserve a free respec. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
2678
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Posted - 2013.06.12 23:49:00 -
[94] - Quote
No more respecs after those petitions filed before the 31st of last month according to CCP. |
Universal Decimator
Interstellar Legionnaires
3
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Posted - 2013.06.17 10:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
A purchasable respect is a GREAT idea
First of all it would take a lot of work off of CCP's hands in the future, as they come out with new stuff and change things. CCP won't have worry about giving respects to people who complain, and we know there's a lot of those people.
Secondly it would make CCP some more money, in witch they greatly deserve. It's not pay to win but the game does take a little bit of investment and devotion from its more serious players. This helps to make the game more exciting for us grown ups. If you can't handle it, you should have played something else.
The booster chip should be called the skill regression, or something. It would very slowly give you the ability to remove skills already learnt and respend the points else ware. It should cost aurum, so people would be inclined not to misuse it.
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Draco Cerberus
Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy
119
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Posted - 2013.06.17 13:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:I hate to say it but I have come to believe this feature is needed for DUST. If this were EVE I'd say absolutely not, no way, never, but this is a very different game with a very different crowd.
I could talk a lot about the similarities and differences, but instead here's my basic suggestion on respec options.
First: There would be a respec limit. By that I mean 2-4 times a year or something like that.
Second: For the cost..... Simple, just make it cost like 20% of your current SP pool to respec.
That way the option is there pretty frequently, there is a penalty to doing it, so one wouldn't want to do it often, and there's no real money involved! The infamous post #8 leaves alot to be desired. First, 2-4 respecs a year are way too many, choices must have meaning.
Second, this would make sense but having the option to respec the first time there was already a hidden cost that wasn't readily clear, CCP left us with all the stuff that we had speced into and were using before the respec. This, rather than helping us by converting the assets back to isk like was previously done has placed a large number of assets in my possession that I would rather not have. Removing SP from the character would be a penalty that would remove altogether the usefullness of a respec.
Third, there are things in life that you just can't change. Eve is a simulated future, with Dust being part of that simulated future, many of the rules that are already in place are things that carry over in Dust. We do not have the option to respec in Eve, I don't believe anymore (after the optional respec) that we should be given the option. The only reason that people want the respec is to make the game constantly mutable, like COD or BF4 and I am very happy to say that it is not either one of those games.
I work hard for my SP, I spend time playing so I can get the LV 5 whatever, to make that task easier to achieve by allowing a constant stream of respecs would devalue that LV5 skill. Already we've had the proto stomping complaints, are you absoloutely certain you want the complaints about proto this and proto that every time CCP adds a new item to the market? I know I don't, it would ruin the enjoyment I have every time I take the field and see my WP payouts blip my screen from well chosen skills. This is what Choice has Meaning is all about, rewards to those who choose well, not to the ones who decide they can play 20% longer each week to get the SP back after finding a new flavor to try. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1176
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 05:16:00 -
[97] - Quote
To those still supporting the OP and general respecs please read and respond to in detail my posts #19 & #92. There's a lot of ground to cover and the issues presented within those two posts (as well as other posts not by me) really do require an address before any such idea should be considered for adoption into the game.
Cheers, Cross |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
12
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Posted - 2013.06.18 05:33:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:Even if just temporarily it's desperately needed in a game as incomplete and imbalanced as this.
Slap a price tag on it, hell make it cost aurum if you want to be a **** about it. Even toss on a time limit so someone can only do it once a week or month or something so it isn't abused.
Even at this "release" stage of the game there are too many missing pieces of critical equipment and items that may be nerfed into oblivion one day or buffed out of it.
Forcing your players to either gimp themselves waiting for an addition/update that may never come or punishing those that invest just to find that next week they've wasted everything is just a **** move. There's enough grinding in this game as it is, people shouldn't be needing to grind even more to make up for trying to enjoy the game before a new addition takes a crap on all they've done so far.
Someone wants to try playing as a logi or a heavy? Well they're going to have to invest a load of sp into it just to get to a point where they are actually built like one just to find out that they're horrible at it and now get to either quit the game in rage or play a game they hate until they can dump more sp into the next specialty just to toss the dice again.
Quit dicking around and playing with these partial respecs already and just add a self respecing system. Honestly, people are replying to this post saying it's "dishonorable" or "not new eden". Bullshit. If DUST 514 is going to compete with other games, it needs replayablity. Since people keep demanding new items added to the game, why not have a different solution to hold off the needy customers... respecs. So many games have them, and I know people say: "New Eden isn't for COD noobs" or something along the lines that Dust isn't easy. Yeah even with respecs your going to have people it proto suits and another 20 mil SP holding them up. Honestly thats never going to change. Maybe adding a feature to the game that will make people want to play after reaching their weekly cap, is a good thing to the game as a whole, and maybe it will hurt the "vets" a little because "noobs" will have a standing chance. Honestly people grow up and stop complaining about a damn game mechanic ... |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1176
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 05:41:00 -
[99] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:Mike Poole wrote:Even if just temporarily it's desperately needed in a game as incomplete and imbalanced as this.
Slap a price tag on it, hell make it cost aurum if you want to be a **** about it. Even toss on a time limit so someone can only do it once a week or month or something so it isn't abused.
Even at this "release" stage of the game there are too many missing pieces of critical equipment and items that may be nerfed into oblivion one day or buffed out of it.
Forcing your players to either gimp themselves waiting for an addition/update that may never come or punishing those that invest just to find that next week they've wasted everything is just a **** move. There's enough grinding in this game as it is, people shouldn't be needing to grind even more to make up for trying to enjoy the game before a new addition takes a crap on all they've done so far.
Someone wants to try playing as a logi or a heavy? Well they're going to have to invest a load of sp into it just to get to a point where they are actually built like one just to find out that they're horrible at it and now get to either quit the game in rage or play a game they hate until they can dump more sp into the next specialty just to toss the dice again.
Quit dicking around and playing with these partial respecs already and just add a self respecing system. Honestly, people are replying to this post saying it's "dishonorable" or "not new eden". Bullshit. If DUST 514 is going to compete with other games, it needs replayablity. Since people keep demanding new items added to the game, why not have a different solution to hold off the needy customers... respecs. So many games have them, and I know people say: "New Eden isn't for COD noobs" or something along the lines that Dust isn't easy. Yeah even with respecs your going to have people it proto suits and another 20 mil SP holding them up. Honestly thats never going to change. Maybe adding a feature to the game that will make people want to play after reaching their weekly cap, is a good thing to the game as a whole, and maybe it will hurt the "vets" a little because "noobs" will have a standing chance. Honestly people grow up and stop complaining about a damn game mechanic ...
Please see my posts #19 & #92 and respond to them in detail. There are reasons why the mechanic is a bad fix for the concerns raised, if you have a solution to those problems then by all mean respond in detail to those posts with your solution. Failing that the problems still stand.
0.02 ISK Cross |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
434
|
Posted - 2013.06.18 05:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
TL;DR the entire thread.. but lololoo who the **** would pay for a respec?
This idea is dead in the water.
You have to offer value for other's money.
even if a fool is soon departed from it, the tap cuts off quick. so quick bankruptcy starts to rear it's ugly head. many huge dev outfits have fallen from grace by being stupid. |
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Stands Alone
Ultramarine Corp
27
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Posted - 2013.06.25 16:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
How about a partial respec? every 6 months, you get to reset 25% of your SP. they would have to add a menu where you can choose the skills that you want to back out of however, up to 25% of course |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
447
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 16:31:00 -
[102] - Quote
Stands Alone wrote:How about a partial respec? every 6 months, you get to reset 25% of your SP. they would have to add a menu where you can choose the skills that you want to back out of however, up to 25% of course Depending on the amount of SP you have accumululated, 25% can mean easily enough to completely switch one class. Remember that every skill caps out at V and any suit/role has only a limited amount of relevant skills so having for example 50m would respec 12.5m wich is easily enough to near max out most if not all infantry classes.
That means that this limitation gets meaningless for veteran players while remaining prohibitive for new players. If there's one thing this game doesn't need then it's a feature that's the most usefull for vets instead of newberries. |
Revelations 514
Red Star. EoN.
72
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:20:00 -
[103] - Quote
I say no respecs ever. You defeat the risk of actually speccing into something by giving out a respec. You will have a ton more "flavor of the month" people who spec into whatever is exploitable at the time. The only way respecs would work is if you had achieved "perfect balance" which is a myth in a constantly changing environment (aka any MMO).
Im a scout, and while a respec would benefit me greatly as I would be able to choose a logi AR/Flaylock/LAV build that would crush all, I would prefer to be forced to stick to my choices so that they actually matter. Not to mention I don't really feel like dealing with a game full of Logi/AR/Flaylock/LAV wielding/driving mofo's. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
112
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:30:00 -
[104] - Quote
TcuBe3 wrote:Ok ok, not to be ignorant here but where are the resources for me that actually explain what I'm spending my sp on? I feel that until ccp does a really good job of explaining all the details of my sp purchases than respecs are needed. Not every player is gonna go read pages and pages of wiki data to research one sp purchase. I don't feel there is enough IN GAME information explaining the details of dust skills and equipment to yield no sp respecs.
this is a game where you're supposed to educate yourself. if you're not interested enough to read pages of information, then it's not ccp's fault you make bad choices. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
112
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:30:00 -
[105] - Quote
Stands Alone wrote:How about a partial respec? every 6 months, you get to reset 25% of your SP. they would have to add a menu where you can choose the skills that you want to back out of however, up to 25% of course
certainly not. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
112
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Posted - 2013.06.25 17:32:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mike Poole wrote:How many people do you really believe are going to be playing this game for 7.5 years? This isn't an mmo where you have a varied and rich game where people can lose themselves in various aspects and enjoy themselves over long periods. Dust is not an mmo, it's not the new EVE where people will spend years and years and years playing it. Dust is an FPS, it's complexity boils down to shooting stuff. If suddenly you're nerfed to hell and your ability to shoot stuff suddenly screeches to a halt you don't have many alternatives to fall back on outside starting over from scratch with a new setup. There's no "well I can always fall back on X" or "well I still enjoy the Y aspect of the game" or "well I'll just have fun with Z until they fix this" Even then an artificial longevity propagated purely by arbitrarily selected point value goals is not a true longevity. If someone really enjoys a game they don't play it for a year because that's how long it takes to unlock their next skill, they do it because over that year they enjoyed it enough to come back over and over again.
i will be playing this game for a decade. most of the people qqing about respecs will be gone in 6 months. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
112
|
Posted - 2013.06.25 17:35:00 -
[107] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:10,000,000 ISK Available once every 720 hours No skillbook refunding
too cheap
too often |
Edgar-Allan Poe
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.06.25 19:08:00 -
[108] - Quote
Stephen Rao wrote:Nope, bad idea.
While I can get behind a respec upon graduation from the Academy, you're supposed to live with your choices. The best way to learn something is through failure.
Also while every player with 1mil SP wishes dearly that they could respec, just think of how broken the game would become if the players with 14mil could just respec into the flavour of the month whenever they wanted. Adding timers or diminishing returns isn't going to help or change that. As new things come out everyone will have an equal opportunity to skill into it, no need to respec your entire character.
NOPE... If they keep adding new classes and new weapons its certainly a reasonable question and why for life? alot of games have repecs that have to be earned or paid for. It would actually help keep the game afloat.
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1211
|
Posted - 2013.06.26 16:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:To those still supporting the OP and general respecs please read and respond to in detail my posts #19 & #92. There's a lot of ground to cover and the issues presented within those two posts (as well as other posts not by me) really do require an address before any such idea should be considered for adoption into the game.
Cheers, Cross ^Still this. |
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