I look at logistics suits and lose all faith in CCPs ability to create balanced suit dynamics :/

Scouts fit into non-combat when they run distraction or take point in a formation.

I look at logistics suits and lose all faith in CCPs ability to create balanced suit dynamics :/

The only problem is the Cali Logi shield Bonus. Fix that and things are fine.

I kind of define roles based on progression in the game, if what you are doing does not earn you sp, your character does not advance in the game.

Ever seen a scout using code breakers? I could generate 1000+ WP on my own, just running distraction in a skirmish.

I look at logistics suits and lose all faith in CCPs ability to create balanced suit dynamics :/

Only having a sidearm would focus logistics more on... logistics. Logis can out assault assaults.

Logistics suits do everything, and for what...no side arm?

Then'd you be butthurt when players like "All Dinner Can" psychically assaults your nether regions with a Proto SMG.

Every suit can do every roll when you get down to it. I do believe the Assault Suits don't have enticing enough skills (2% reload speed per level), but the logi suits with the exception of the Cali Logi are fine as they are.

There would be zero issue if people specced into one level of Grenadier and started using Flux nades more.

Logistics suits do everything, and for what...no side arm?

Lmao

Are we seriously going to have this nerf logi debate again? Didn't we just go through this **** two weeks ago? Did you forget my goddamned campaign to buff the other suits?! Am I wasting my time?!

ARGGGHH!!!!!

I look at logistics suits and lose all faith in CCPs ability to create balanced suit dynamics :/

Every suit can do every roll when you get down to it. I do believe the Assault Suits don't have enticing enough skills (2% reload speed per level), but the logi suits with the exception of the Cali Logi are fine as they are.

There would be zero issue if people specced into one level of Grenadier and started using Flux nades more.

Essentially, more so than nerfing Assaults and Logis, Heavies And Scouts just need an extra role and you'd see much better balance.

[trimmed quote]

Scouts need a second equipment slot and more scout equipment and then scouts would honestly be fine. They would function like negative logis by hindering the enemy by reveals, disruption, and sneak attacks compared to logis ammo, heals, and assaulting.

Heavies would benefit from active shield or armor hardeners that give a 50% boost to starting armor or shields, meaning that module stacking suits wouldn't be able to steel the thunder from heavies considering it would assist base stats. This could serve as the "close that gap" or the "Oh ****" button for heavies who do need it. It would also allow snipers and surprise attackers their fair share against the heavy since they have to activate this ability.

if you gave scouts a second equipment slot, you would completely obsolete the amarr logi below proto. and even at proto, itd still be a tossup, because after what? 2.7m sp? you arent used to or proficient with that side arm, and probably not going to be able to fit a decent upgrade of a fit with that 3rd equip ontop of side arm...

the mention of 'EHP' made me chuckle on the first page... EHP on dropsuits... where theres no damage reduction aside from weapon strength/weaknesses... the numbers you were giving are not EHP but raw hp, unless they were mathed against a specific weapons effectiveness... though they do need to give heavies some sort of tank-ability... be it buffs to hp per level, or modules that are high req for heavies, to give them an edge above buffer tanked assault/logi

Far from it, Scouts suffer heavily from low cpu/pg than any other suit, with two equipment slots, they would have to chose between a sidearm and two equipment items or one equipment and one light weapon. Couple this with their low hp, they certainly can't "run with the pack" risking getting caught in the open to utilize logistical equipment meaning other equipment items (cloak, scanning, EWAR) would be the most effective yields for scout suits, again serving as a minor negative logis.

You should add Heavy Forge Gun to support. I don't know how many installations/vehicles I've taken out since I made the switch.

i know a few folks who speced logi just for the second equip slot to run remote explosives+nanos, they might have gone scout, but they wanted the buffer of cald logi, having a second option for bonus equip slots would diversify things, but people have already dedicated to negative-logi builds.

but having said this, i thought the entire point of the amarr logistics was to be 'combat support' rather than actual logistics(healing). but amarr logi only really flush out at proto level when they get that side arm(AV becomes considerably less painful with a side arm)

i do feel the other roles could use some TLC and be brought up to be more on par with the mainstream assault/logi suits...

Forward Slayer
-Logistics
-Assault

Support
-Logistics

Flankers
-Logistics
-Assault
-Scout
-Heavy

Currently, non combat roles are limited to logis due to their equipment slots being high enough to support real sp attainment during a match. Also combined this with the fact that most of the equipment is logistics oriented.

Scouts (sidewinders) and heavies (point defense) are limited to flanking roles due to suit constraints, heavies don't have the range/speed/hp combo to push and scouts lack the slots and survivability to separate themselves from speed tanking logis and assaults.

I also think this explains the dynamics of suit popularity as well.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on this and the balance between suit popularity? Do you think an introduction of alternative roles would assist the less popular suits and if so what should they be?

A personal fear of mine but do you think that the fact that since scouts and heavies are more marginalized and are a minority that they could potentially never really be develop in the game due to time and effort spent on a ever shrinking population? I also believe this is why the devs introduced all the assault and logistic suits first and are more interested in introducing all the assault rifles before anything else.

Anyways, all thoughts are appreciated and thank you for your time.

Also installations and vehicles are not something that a heavy can take in a face off.

[
Cheers,
Cross

I one shot those weak sauce Blaster and Rail turrets all day and 2 or 3 shots max most average joe Tanks. Forge Gun is more powerful than even the best Rail turret and Heavies with FGs can in fact solo any big slow thing, Infantry support is what kills me when I'm tank hunting.

A conscious effort was made to make this game as grey and lifeless as possible in the name of "player choice" because the gaming industry is run by a committee of marketing tards with the collective creativity of cold oatmeal and uninspired salesmen that only know how to ctrl+v existing business models.

And that's why the Logi is OP...

First thoughts are that you must not play in a Logi suit much. "Speed" and "Logi" hardly ever belong in the same sentence unless juxtaposed with something like "lack of". Also Logi are not in the "forward slayer" category. I've yet to see a "slayer" logi build that doesn't depend on the AR (and almost exclusively the TAR in a Cal Logi suit at that). I'm sure there are players who can make that work but when talking suit values that's not part of the equation. As far as WP earnings from support actions are concerned those are down across the boards and even dedicated support Logi are having to resort more 'slayer' activities just to remain in the same ballpark as the last build. The list is too long to repeat here but the TL;DR is earnings potential from all equipment types is lower now than in Chrome (with the arguable exception of the RE and noting that the Scanner is both new and has no WP earnings yet).

Heavies can be front line as easily as assault within the right context. Granted these contexts are more limited than the assault however a well specc'ed heavy can hold his own in CQC against more than one assault (the current use of TAR not withstanding but that issue isn't a suit based thing). All of which presumes HMG heavy as opposed to the use of other weapons, role will alter based on weapon employed. Leaving all the light weapon possibilities aside (I've still seen heavy snipers, heavy shotgunners and heavy AR guys doing work in various matches) the heavy possesses access to the Forge which in addition to it's AV abilities (such as 1-2 shotting dropships and LAVs, as well as eating up non-proto HAVs) is currently a more effective area denial weapon than the MD. The heavy suit will likely become more popular with the introduction of the "commando" heavy which packs 2 light weapon slots and not heavy slot.

Scouts are limited to flaking and scouting it's true but an active scanner, a set of nova knives or a well placed shotgun blast is still quite effective. And the main assets of the scout are speed and scanning/damp. So various forms of flaking are really their intended niche (sniper scouts notwithstanding). There's also the coming cloak which if things hold to EVE style the scouts will get a bonus to fitting giving them more options (and possibly explaining some of the delay in deploying the other racial scout suits). The scouts are also going to be highly effective at both deploying and countering eWar, another aspect of the mechanics which is confirmed as coming but still not integrated into the game.

Assaults are the ever popular "go to" suit, they are the AR of the dropsuit line... however in Uprising they took a bit of a hit as their racial suit buffs weren't well received in general and (the on board rep of the minny aside) they didn't really offer any non-shield tanking options making them take one on the chin to some extent with the introduction of the new weapons.
To some extent the familiarity of the assault suit, combined with it's name and "jack of all trades" base suit values will likely keep it in prominence. And while I fully support the development and viability of other diverse roles it's important to bear in mind that part of this popularity is based on what the players feel at home with due to prior FPS time and is not actually a comment on balance.

Cheers,
Cross