To much text!

Dunno militia forges can do alot of damage but at starter levels the recharge time is too long follow up shots are extremely hard to maintain on a moving target. Its only when they start leveling up does it become a problem of being free and effective, then again all militia gear is this way. a militia outfit with 20 million sp behind it is going to give a proto a run for his money.

The only problem I have with that idea, is that they are all grenades, they all have the word "grenade" in them.

/rubbing cigarettes into your arm

"scum"

Keep grenades in the same tree, but AV grenades should be weaker. They almost diminish incentive to spec into AV weapons that should be the real hard hitters since you're giving up your primary weapon.

I disagree that grenades should be split. They are all grenades. The balance is in the skill multiplier (x4). it takes twice as many skill points to upgrade than any light weapon operations skill.

Reduce the overall damage that the militia forge gun does maybe?

I'm running a 9K33 Adv Forge with two Enhanced Damage mods, not the best set up i've ever run, but not the worst (the militia forge gun is the worst, I hate that thing). What i've noticed is that even with an okay AV set up that I have i'm still just area-denial rather than soloing tanks.

Their all grenades, don't change it, it'll just waste too much SP just to get certain types of grenades. Besides, you can only carry one type of grenade at a time, and THEY ARE ALL LIMITED, compared to you Tankers who basically have INFINITE AMOUNT OF AMMO to rain Hell behind your redlines or roflstomp people with your blasters.

True, but it's the only skill (that I can think of) that allows access to multiple items with EDIT: >completely< different roles. Nanohives take nanocircuitry, the AR requires Assault Rifle, shield extenders / armor repairers / damage amps / stimulants... every item has a skill for it except for Grenadier, which gives you three items for the price of one.

Is an assault scrambler rifle not a scrambler rifle? Is a tactical AR not an AR? And are those nano-hives that heal instead of resupply not nano-hives?

I want to define roles more. If someone specializes in AV, they should be using AV grenades. What we're seeing is every single AR/SMG Assault / Logi suit stomping tanks with their AV nade blobs while also keeping their infantry role with their guns.

The irony of this debate is all the tankers in Chromosome that told infantry to HTFU and adapt with AV after pubstomps. Guess what? We did. Turns out your tears are just as salty as ours.

Seriously though, what you are describing, everyone rolling AV nades, is called adapting. And tbqh we carry them to counter LAVs more than your tank. You are just icing on the cake if we are in the right place at right time. Thankfully, I doubt CCP will split grenade skills. But who cares if they do. I'll grind the SP and keep coming at you bro. :)

Personally, I think AV nades are fine as-is. I just think that if you want AV nades, you should spec into AV nades, Flux grenadiers should spec into Flux grenades, and the Locus bros should spec into Locus grenades.

Right now, if you get grenadier to 3, you get advanced Flux, AV, and Locus. There's no specialization required. If this were implemented, we'd see a few less AV nades (not completely removed) and the "HAV UP" threads might slow down.

I disagree that grenades should be split. They are all grenades. The balance is in the skill multiplier (x4). it takes twice as many skill points to upgrade than any light weapon operations skill.

That's like saying the standard, burst, breach, and tactical ARs should have their own separate skill tree when they're the same weapon family, but different variants. AV grenades should just be slightly weaker because they eliminate the need for people to use other AV weapons. Think about it, how often have you seen swarms and plasma cannons actually killing vehicles?

I'd argue more for about 7-10 AV grenades for a standard tank, possibly about 5-6 for a militia one, with one for a militia LAV, or three for a Logi LAV. Depending on fits, of course. This is, of course, with a general nerf to AV nades, in line for FG and swarm damage. Proto FG's should be able to take out a standard tank within 3-4 hits, with damage mods, two for a logi LAV. Swarms should take 6-7 full swarms to take out the standard tank, with again, three for a logi LAV.

Now then, what I propose: We keep the "Grenadier" skill as is, but we cut the damage on all grenades, and then add proficiency skills for the different grenade types.

Dude... I'm so smart.

AV grenades, when thrown (and come within range of a vehicle), home in on the target and explode on impact. These are a non-threat to infantry, and there is a packed variant with a smaller explosion radius (not sure why, these seek one vehicle and explode on impact).

I leave the variants of an item under the same skill, but these are different weapon systems.

IIRC, it is a smaller "seek" range, not explosion radius

I actually quite like that. It allows for entry level followed by specialisation.

As much as I would hate for my locus grenades to get an initial nerf, the idea is good.

I could support this idea too.

Set it up so that Grenadier is just an SP sink skill (or make it work like Demo does for Explosives) and then have each type have its own skill. If they did this though, the multiplier should be reduced to compensate for the SP sink of Grenadier.