It seems to me that "playing the metagame" is just glorified/encouraged griefing. Congratulations, you and your buddies hijacked someone else's match and teamkilled them till they lost. The only difference between griefing in dust and griefing in other games is that in dust people will pay you for it.

But that's not the point of this topic. The question I pose to you: Is there any way to fully enjoy the metagame without griefing? If I don't care to lie, steal, cheat. or backstab, can I still enjoy the metagame, or is all I can look forward to being mistrusted by any corporation I join simply because I'm new?

Protip: If you sabotage do it right. Not like Beta...ehem...failmax :]

Oh look, another OMG SPIES thread.

It seems to me that "playing the metagame" is just glorified/encouraged griefing. Congratulations, you and your buddies hijacked someone else's match and teamkilled them till they lost. The only difference between griefing in dust and griefing in other games is that in dust people will pay you for it.

But that's not the point of this topic. The question I pose to you: Is there any way to fully enjoy the metagame without griefing? If I don't care to lie, steal, cheat. or backstab, can I still enjoy the metagame, or is all I can look forward to being mistrusted by any corporation I join simply because I'm new?

Meta gaming in New Eden generally requires an intricate knowledge of most dramas going on at any one moment, so it will always exclude new players.
Developing trusted allies is still meta gaming IMO. If you sell your services as a merc, you can establish a good rep with the corps, and managing that rep when you inevitably get hired against previous employers could be quite a challenge. Especially having seen the tantrums thrown in the war room by certain corps.

It seems to me that "playing the metagame" is just glorified/encouraged griefing. Congratulations, you and your buddies hijacked someone else's match and teamkilled them till they lost. The only difference between griefing in dust and griefing in other games is that in dust people will pay you for it.

But that's not the point of this topic. The question I pose to you: Is there any way to fully enjoy the metagame without griefing? If I don't care to lie, steal, cheat. or backstab, can I still enjoy the metagame, or is all I can look forward to being mistrusted by any corporation I join simply because I'm new?

I have to agree. Meta gaming exists in almost every game. Simply being here on the forums, getting info on bug/glitches/fits ect is meta gaming.

The EvE community however, seems to feel griefing is meta gaming, and CCP back them. Which is total BS imho. I think this is an issue which will continue to plague CCPs games.

I will not defend saboteurs or griefers however, the enemy of my enemy...

I will not defend saboteurs or griefers however, the enemy of my enemy...

Oh look, another OMG SPIES thread.

I have to agree. Meta gaming exists in almost every game. Simply being here on the forums, getting info on bug/glitches/fits ect is meta gaming.

The EvE community however, seems to feel griefing is meta gaming, and CCP back them. Which is total BS imho. I think this is an issue which will continue to plague CCPs games.

I will not defend saboteurs or griefers however, the enemy of my enemy...

CCP doesn-¦t endorse griefing. They have sandobx games that have emergent gameplay.

That being said, if you thing that you-¦re being harassed or you can-¦t play the game because of someone (he bumps you out of your minning position and it doesn-¦t matter how many systems you jump, he follows you and you can-¦t play for example), you-¦re welcome to file a petition. Harass and griefing is no good.

What people call griefing however, is another story.

Soon we-¦ll have people calling "Oh, but he killed me 20 times with his protosuit, while i only have STD" griefing.

Failmax needs grief counseling after their failed atempt at griefing.

Getting griefed while they grief? GRIEFCEPTION

Wars aren't won by boots on the ground. Wars are won via logistics, morale, and intel.

Sorry that you are so resistant to such a basic strategy lesson.

The mentality behind using tactics unintended by CCP (mechanical oversights) as "legitimate tactics" is troubling.

When Immobile Infantry handled the finding of infinite Precision Strikes primarily inhouse and out of actual matches, instead of abusing it in game for their benefit, I ultimately thought that was very cool and "professional" of them. They tested it, duplicated it, and reported it, all off the grid so no one was abusing it.

Yet, CCPs OWN ELECT happily and freely use these loopholes and tag them as "legitimate tactics".

Of course you can sit there and say "oh we're trying to fix it and talk to CCP about it" but the fact that it's readily and casually used in the gaming environment....yea, it just doesn't sit right with me.

OB to be used, needs every X ammount of WP. That-¦s the mechanic.

If i find out that i can go X, -50, X, -50, that-¦s a bug. If people use the bug for personal gain, that-¦s an exploit.

**

I-¦m a squad leader, therefore, i invite people to squads. That-¦s the mechanic.

I find out that i can invite hostiles to a battle. That-¦s NOT an exploit.

If the difference between each case is not clear, it-¦s going to be very complicated to talk about emergent gameplay, or a game where "shoot shoot, kill kill, i killed most therefore i win" is not the plan.

Yet the simple lack of a mechanic as simple as roles or being able to remove people from combat has caused corporations to have to splinter off and go through silly loopholes and be hyper paranoid of every single applicant, because they have no control over what happens if someone goes rogue, because battle commanders forget how to cut clones off from the clone vat.

The second you're on the field, any clone vat will do. Why we don't just spawn on our enemies CRUs is beyond me

You would think that a member of CPM, CCPs own elected official, would take that information straight to CCP and try to hammer out an option BEFORE it came to light.

Emergent gameplay is one thing. That's cool and important. Finding a loophole and abusing it for your own gain at the expense of others is childish and bad form for a community representative.

The fact that this wasn't addressed before it came to light is the real issue at hand.