It seems to me that "playing the metagame" is just glorified/encouraged griefing. Congratulations, you and your buddies hijacked someone else's match and teamkilled them till they lost. The only difference between griefing in dust and griefing in other games is that in dust people will pay you for it.

But that's not the point of this topic. The question I pose to you: Is there any way to fully enjoy the metagame without griefing? If I don't care to lie, steal, cheat. or backstab, can I still enjoy the metagame, or is all I can look forward to being mistrusted by any corporation I join simply because I'm new?

I have to agree. Meta gaming exists in almost every game. Simply being here on the forums, getting info on bug/glitches/fits ect is meta gaming.

The EvE community however, seems to feel griefing is meta gaming, and CCP back them. Which is total BS imho. I think this is an issue which will continue to plague CCPs games.

I will not defend saboteurs or griefers however, the enemy of my enemy...

Wars aren't won by boots on the ground. Wars are won via logistics, morale, and intel.

Sorry that you are so resistant to such a basic strategy lesson.

The mentality behind using tactics unintended by CCP (mechanical oversights) as "legitimate tactics" is troubling.

When Immobile Infantry handled the finding of infinite Precision Strikes primarily inhouse and out of actual matches, instead of abusing it in game for their benefit, I ultimately thought that was very cool and "professional" of them. They tested it, duplicated it, and reported it, all off the grid so no one was abusing it.

Yet, CCPs OWN ELECT happily and freely use these loopholes and tag them as "legitimate tactics".

Of course you can sit there and say "oh we're trying to fix it and talk to CCP about it" but the fact that it's readily and casually used in the gaming environment....yea, it just doesn't sit right with me.

Yet the simple lack of a mechanic as simple as roles or being able to remove people from combat has caused corporations to have to splinter off and go through silly loopholes and be hyper paranoid of every single applicant, because they have no control over what happens if someone goes rogue, because battle commanders forget how to cut clones off from the clone vat.

The second you're on the field, any clone vat will do. Why we don't just spawn on our enemies CRUs is beyond me

You would think that a member of CPM, CCPs own elected official, would take that information straight to CCP and try to hammer out an option BEFORE it came to light.

Emergent gameplay is one thing. That's cool and important. Finding a loophole and abusing it for your own gain at the expense of others is childish and bad form for a community representative.

The fact that this wasn't addressed before it came to light is the real issue at hand.

Well my understanding of the "mechanic" in question is fuzzy at best, I haven't had any experience with it first hand.

From what I hear, a squad leader or "spy" manages to hop into a PC battle alone by spamming X early on to ensure they get in. Then, they pull in a group of hostiles.

The battle commander (which doesn't even exist yet) can't cut off these clones access to his clone vats. The second they hit that war barge, they're in for the duration.

This doesn't require "infiltration" and does not break "trust" because it's so simple, has devastating results (unless you're BetaMax ), and is rather rewarding for the griefer in both time wasted and tears harvested.

It's childish, and not making this a top priority is dangerous for the metagame. This is the type of thing that CPM should be working to fix, that break further.