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Utsuru Kaiju
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
27
   |
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't chime in on the forums very much but this has got to become a more prominent topic. Shiny menus, cool new weapons and dropsuits, snazzy new features, these are all well and good, but they aren't what is going to really pull people in and build a respectably sized audience...
...but great gameplay will. We can all agree that there are many things Dust does well. With the recent update, a lot of the menus are more responsive, loading times a bit better here and there, the graphics are improved, they added some new things that weren't broken, and so on.
On the other hand, there are many, many things that Dust is not excelling at, and they should be top priorities on CCP's list of things that need to be addressed as soon as possible. Weapon ranges and odd bugs aside, the aiming, hit detection and frame rate in this game are laughable at best. These aspects of the game need to be acceptable, if not spot-on in order to create a game that will hook people from the first second and keep them interested for years to come. Here's why.
It's kind of like tasting some exotic new food for the first time. You have no idea what to expect. You do, however, know if you like it or not within the first few seconds of taking a bite and tasting it. Dust is the same way. New players will hear some info about the game or watch some trailer and say to themselves, "wow, this looks like something I could get into!" so they download the game. The first time they load into a match, they'll know within the first few seconds if they're driving a Ferrari or a Ford Fiesta. If it's smooth, if their bullets hit what they're aiming at, if the controls feel crisp, they'll say "man, this is good."
All the complexity with skills and dropsuits and prototype this and prototype that all comes later. That first match they play however is crucial. If the game doesn't feel good, people aren't going to play it no matter how complex you try to make it and how "vast" of a universe you strive to create.
Take Counter-Strike 1.6 for example. It was a pretty simple game, minimal weapons, all classes the same, it was very bare bones. But it played extraordinarily well. It was smooth, the aiming and hit detection was great, and look how well it did. One of the most successful competitive shooters ever, with a huge audience to this day.
My point is this, CCP: stop with all the bells and whistles. Stop with the shiny add-ons for one second and fix your game for the long haul. The aiming is terrible, especially with a mouse, the hit detection is incredibly inconsistent, and the frame rate is not acceptable. Please, if you want people to pick up your game and be impressed, these issues will need to be addressed first, mark my words.
What is everyone's take on this situation?
TL;DR- What the hell are you doing on a forum in the first place? |
Utsuru Kaiju
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 18:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Additionally,
I know nothing about EVE online, never really heard of it until I picked up Dust in mid-February, to be honest I don't really care what's going on up there in space. I picked up this game because it was something aiming to be different and ground-breaking but in the end, I think we all just want a fun, smooth, well-polished shooting experience to the best abilities the hardware allows. I know I'm not the only one who is in a similar situation as me. |
Tuna the Fish
Isuuaya Tactical
Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
I couldn't agree harder. New content or features are essential to prolonging a games life, but they don't help when the game doesn't have much a life to begin with.
Fix the house, then worry about the additions. |
Daedric Lothar
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
386
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
I haven't noticed any problems with the aiming. it seems pretty good. Better then it was though the K/M still seems kinda weird, the DS3 is great. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians
Orion Empire
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Both gameplay and content need to be reasonably balanced. I do not think however that mechanics should be the absolute top priority.
There are parts of the playerbase who have no significant experience with other console shooters and to those the mechanics are not nearly as broken as to the competitve FPS guys. I'd argue from my own perspective, that the mechanics just have to be "good enough" and that the point at which this is the case varies between different players.
Therefore you have to take into consideration how many players are really dissatisfied with the current aiming and how many would rather have new features content or something entirely different and base your priorities on that, even if that means that some players will not stay. |
Utsuru Kaiju
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daedric Lothar wrote:I haven't noticed any problems with the aiming. it seems pretty good. Better then it was though the K/M still seems kinda weird, the DS3 is great.
Veteran console players will instantly know something is off, you are right however the DS3 is currently much, much better than the mouse. Aiming with a mouse right now can best be described as my hand is moving my mouse, those inputs get outsourced to a child in India, who tries to mimic those inputs, then sends them to a server to the south pole, then finally show up on my screen.
In all seriousness, one of the reasons I believe aiming is further being hindered is due to the fact it changes so much. Each dropsuit's turning speed varies, crouching vs. standing sensitivity is different, hipfire vs. ADS's sensitivity is drastically different. There needs to be more consistency for both DS3 and Mouse, along with much, much refining. |
Utsuru Kaiju
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Both gameplay and content need to be reasonably balanced. I do not think however that mechanics should be the absolute top priority.
There are parts of the playerbase who have no significant experience with other console shooters and to those the mechanics are not nearly as broken as to the competitve FPS guys. I'd argue from my own perspective, that the mechanics just have to be "good enough" and that the point at which this is the case varies between different players.
Therefore you have to take into consideration how many players are really dissatisfied with the current aiming and how many would rather have new features content or something entirely different and base your priorities on that, even if that means that some players will not stay.
I see what you're saying, however I believe what I'm about to say rings very true. Fans of EVE Online, especially those that bought a PS3 exclusively for Dust, will play it however terrible the game is (to a point.) Those invested so fully into the universe will undoubtedly play it, if only for the novelty factor.
However, in order to truly build an audience, to really suck people in, the core mechanics of the game have to be well executed. New players with no knowledge of EVE Online will likely pick this up, think to themselves "this feels like crap" and walk away forever. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
Gentlemen's Agreement
102
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Things that can help you today:
Restarting your PS3 - Every 5 or so matches you should restart your PS3...there is a very noticeable drop in frame rate the longer your PS3 is running DUST...even when you are just standing around your cell chatting with your corp mates.
Let your PS3 cool down - sometimes a restart works....but PS3s playing Dust over heat...turn it off let it sit for 15 to 30 min then turn it back on and play.
Get a keyboard and mouse - This won't work for everyone. I am sure people who have played halo for 10 years will not be helped...but for people like me who have played FPS since Marathon and Doom with a mouse and keyboard it will help you very very much.
Get a good mouse pad - yeah your mouse works on your jeans for web browsing...i am very impressed. Still a good mouse pad is more consistent.
Turn all that crap off on your PS3: http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25980465/how-to-improve-ps3-frame-rate search Google with "improve PS3 frame rate" for more suggestions on what to turn off. The link gives you a good idea on what to turn off.
Play in your time zone: Last night at about 3 am pacific time i got face stomped by a bunch of Aussies...and the reason why was because i was on a server far far away. (they probably would have face stomped me anyway but i would have taken more of them with me if not fro the server lag) play the game at prime time for your time zone. Prime time is from about 4 PM to 11 pm in your time zone. by playing at these times it greatly increases the chance that you will be playing on a server near you. |
Utsuru Kaiju
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Things that can help you today: Restarting your PS3 - Every 5 or so matches you should restart your PS3...there is a very noticeable drop in frame rate the longer your PS3 is running DUST...even when you are just standing around your cell chatting with your corp mates. Let your PS3 cool down - sometimes a restart works....but PS3s playing Dust over heat...turn it off let it sit for 15 to 30 min then turn it back on and play. Get a keyboard and mouse - This won't work for everyone. I am sure people who have played halo for 10 years will not be helped...but for people like me who have played FPS since Marathon and Doom with a mouse and keyboard it will help you very very much. Get a good mouse pad - yeah your mouse works on your jeans for web browsing...i am very impressed. Still a good mouse pad is more consistent. Turn all that crap off on your PS3: http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25980465/how-to-improve-ps3-frame-rate search Google with "improve PS3 frame rate" for more suggestions on what to turn off. The link gives you a good idea on what to turn off. Play in your time zone: Last night at about 3 am pacific time i got face stomped by a bunch of Aussies...and the reason why was because i was on a server far far away. (they probably would have face stomped me anyway but i would have taken more of them with me if not fro the server lag) play the game at prime time for your time zone. Prime time is from about 4 PM to 11 pm in your time zone. by playing at these times it greatly increases the chance that you will be playing on a server near you.
Thank you for replying, but your points either don't really coordinate with what I was saying or don't apply to me.
I rarely play more than 5 matches in a row, I let my PS3 cool off if it gets too hot all the time(which is rarely as I don't play for long sessions) so neither of these have much to do with the current issues. Also, I have a keyboard and mouse and a good mouse pad and play on the America servers only during "peak hours." Additionally, that thread you posted does very little in regard to increasing frame rate, most of those options have nothing to do with running a game.
I do, however, appreciate you responding to this thread. |
RoTTeN-1
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
I cant get my veteran players back on this game untill the aiming and range is fixed. Some might not come back at all. Another point is these guys are not kids, They have money, But will not sink another dime into this game untill things are working right. |
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
21
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 19:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Heres how you fix the DS3 aiming
1) Remove turn acceleration completelly
2) increase sensitivity on everything (its too slow right now even maxed out)
How to fix hit detection
I have no idea because the unreal engine is famous for its hit detection problems. I dont see it ever getting fixed in dust unless they start from scratch on a new engine (which wont happen)
Framerate
Now this can be fixed, simply getting better servers, server nods and connectivity to these nods and servers will fix it for the majority of people. The second part is not allowing people with shoddy internet connections to connect (which wont happen).
Another way to fix this without screwing with the battle servers is to just not allow battle servers to reach out and connect with other major servers from around the world. (this wont happen either)
Editting to clarify that last bit
It wouldnt allow EU servers to connect to NA servers or Asian servers to Ausland servers. |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
I like the new flashy graphics, the new guns and dropsuits but it doesn't compensate for the destruction of the old aiming system. I know they won't go back to RAW input but having a virtual joystick is not an improvement. It's ok when using hipsfire but when you use the sights it slows down to ridiculous levels. Also, try moving the mouse in a smooth manner - it will jerk, try jerking it - and it goes smoothly. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians
Orion Empire
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Utsuru Kaiju wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:Both gameplay and content need to be reasonably balanced. I do not think however that mechanics should be the absolute top priority.
There are parts of the playerbase who have no significant experience with other console shooters and to those the mechanics are not nearly as broken as to the competitve FPS guys. I'd argue from my own perspective, that the mechanics just have to be "good enough" and that the point at which this is the case varies between different players.
Therefore you have to take into consideration how many players are really dissatisfied with the current aiming and how many would rather have new features content or something entirely different and base your priorities on that, even if that means that some players will not stay. I see what you're saying, however I believe what I'm about to say rings very true. Fans of EVE Online, especially those that bought a PS3 exclusively for Dust, will play it however terrible the game is (to a point.) Those invested so fully into the universe will undoubtedly play it, if only for the novelty factor. However, in order to truly build an audience, to really suck people in, the core mechanics of the game have to be well executed. New players with no knowledge of EVE Online will likely pick this up, think to themselves "this feels like crap" and walk away forever. I agree that EVE players are much more forgiving of faulty gameplay mechanics and that they should not set the bar for what is good enough alone.
But there's also the likes of me (disclosure: i do play EVE but please read on  ) who like dust not explicitly because they like the franchise, or want to make some isk but for the persistence. I like me some shooter and, on pc, i played quite a number of them. But i'm not interested in multiplayer shooters beyond coop or the occasional round of quake because i really like some persistence in depth in my games.
Now you could say that's because i like EVE but i'd rather argue that it's the reason why i like EVE and i believe that there's others like me to whom the main reason to play DUST or any FPS for that matter is that added depth and persistence. People that are not looking for the COD killer and couldn't even notice that kind of improvement that you would appreciate. Players to whom Dust might be the first FPS to play for more than the story campaign.
These people shouldn't be forgotten in the pursuit of improving the core mechanics because, to them, the battlefield might not be core of the game. That's why i think that getting the aiming and lag issues fixed should be important but not the only focus say for the next 3 months.
Balance is really the right word for what i ask for
|
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
325
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Join the fight!
I have a thread up in the bugs section already on this whole topic. Feel free to show support, solutions, or opinion on what you think is the causing the problem. I know if you switch down to 480p it fixes the problem, I have tried this myself, it works. I just don't wanna play PS2 on PS3. P |
Blamejudg3s KEQ
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
33
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
the lower sensitivities seem to be working fine, its the higher ones where the disparities start really showing |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic
Gentlemen's Agreement
104
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Utsuru Kaiju wrote:
Thank you for replying, but your points either don't really coordinate with what I was saying or don't apply to me.
Agreed.
My post was meant for players who did not know who want "better" (less terrible really) game play now.
But yes i agree core FPS game play is a must and Dust is lacking as you say. |
Malkai Inos
The Vanguardians
Orion Empire
90
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:I like the new flashy graphics, the new guns and dropsuits but it doesn't compensate for the destruction of the old aiming system. I know they won't go back to RAW input but having a virtual joystick is not an improvement. It's ok when using hipsfire but when you use the sights it slows down to ridiculous levels. Also, try moving the mouse in a smooth manner - it will jerk, try jerking it - and it goes smoothly. Did they ever use raw input? I play since CB and always felt slightly restrained with kb/m (last checked in chromosome)
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Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
|
Cass Barr
Red Star.
EoN.
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 20:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
I just shot a sniper sitting still about 3 yards away with a GEK and the first 5 bullets got blue shields.... |
Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cass Barr wrote:I just shot a sniper sitting still about 3 yards away with a GEK and the first 5 bullets got blue shields....
So far I can pretty much insta kill anyone standing still, It meens on my client they are in the right place. Im kinda convinced its a dysink issue. /shrug
I never seen any problems if they are not moving. but yea, this new aiming engine / client dysink needs to be talked about more. |
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Secon Nine wrote:Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
>aim assist
>kb/m
Your post made me puke a little |
Toni Scott White
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
It may be broken, but new players like me find it normal on max sensitivity. |
Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
>aim assist >kb/m Your post made me puke a little
Typing from a iphone, but yea, "Aim assist" is an aim bot so puke if you need to. why you think we dont see hit markers as much anymore? get a marker then water hose your aim. its a no brainer. its easy, last build was for noobs.
K/M, its sweet an short.
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Secon Nine wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
>aim assist >kb/m Your post made me puke a little Typing from a iphone, but yea, "Aim assist" is an aim bot so puke if you need to. why you think we dont see hit markers as much anymore? get a marker then water hose your aim. its a no brainer. its easy, last build was for noobs. K/M, its sweet an short.
I puked a little because only people who are bad use aim assist. It makes it worse that you would use it on a kb/m. Aim assist should be removed from all FPS's so people can learn how to use a controller or kb/m the right way. |
Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
>aim assist >kb/m Your post made me puke a little Typing from a iphone, but yea, "Aim assist" is an aim bot so puke if you need to. why you think we dont see hit markers as much anymore? get a marker then water hose your aim. its a no brainer. its easy, last build was for noobs. K/M, its sweet an short. I puked a little because only people who are bad use aim assist. It makes it worse that you would use it on a kb/m. Aim assist should be removed from all FPS's so people can learn how to use a controller or kb/m the right way.
ALL aiming engines have Assists built in silly, its just code that tells your client you hit, COD clones have super easy hit markers to crutch on..
Aim assist on or not, that is not what I was talking about anyway..
|
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
22
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Secon Nine wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Well they did tighten the aim up, the built in aimbot is not as forgiving anymore. ( it was a joke before )
Im fine with that, but not all matchs run well. From my point of view it feels like dysink, not all games are hard to aim in.
Since they made the aim so sharp, a small amount of dysink can play hard on a cqc encounter. I know its not just me when 4 guys in front of me cant drop my shields, it feels like a pillow fight sometimes.
I play on k/m,.
>aim assist >kb/m Your post made me puke a little Typing from a iphone, but yea, "Aim assist" is an aim bot so puke if you need to. why you think we dont see hit markers as much anymore? get a marker then water hose your aim. its a no brainer. its easy, last build was for noobs. K/M, its sweet an short. I puked a little because only people who are bad use aim assist. It makes it worse that you would use it on a kb/m. Aim assist should be removed from all FPS's so people can learn how to use a controller or kb/m the right way. ALL aiming engines have Assists built in silly, its just code that tells your client you hit, COD clones have super easy hit markers to crutch on.. Aim assist on or not, that is not what I was talking about anyway..
Aim assist helps you stay or get on target. Its not hitmarkers. Its literally a program that grabs your sites and drags them on target.
Look back to the games like Quake or Gore for lack of aim assist features. |
Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 21:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yep, thats why I called it a aimbot =p
Im just a pc gamer, so what do I know huh...
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
26
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Secon Nine wrote:Yep, thats why I called it a aimbot =p
Im just a pc gamer, so what do I know huh...
Im just a independant pre alpha and alpha game tester and was a Dev on an indie game.
 |
Secon Nine
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Yep, thats why I called it a aimbot =p
Im just a pc gamer, so what do I know huh...
Im just a independant pre alpha and alpha game tester and was a Dev on an indie game.
you say that like its a silver badge or something,. do I dare list the alpha's I been in on PC? naa, your not worth my time,. nice talking to you though..
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.20 22:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
Secon Nine wrote:Mossellia Delt wrote:Secon Nine wrote:Yep, thats why I called it a aimbot =p
Im just a pc gamer, so what do I know huh...
Im just a independant pre alpha and alpha game tester and was a Dev on an indie game. you say that like its a silver badge or something,. do I dare list the alpha's I been in on PC? naa, your not worth my time,. nice talking to you though..
How many where you paid for though? Im betting on zero. Which is too bad because its not a bad paying job.
Edit: And if CCP is looking to hire im currently out of a job and will travel! |
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