DUST Search - [feedback] assault dropships

Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:

dalt ud wrote:

(...)

As Railgun HAV pilot I completely understand your pain.
Since this build start just 1 ADS almost killed me, and I killed at least 10 of them with my HAV.
Railgun tanks are camping in redline because map is constructed at the shape of the crown - there is now huge mountie at the middle of map where they could spawn their tanks and start camping from there - far, far away from redline.
Every current map have mountains at the edge's of map(next to redline).
It's like DUST have a lot of content that is planned to work perfectly in they own environmental, fast example: HMG - weapon design for close buildings, or Assault DS with were design for really big maps, same as Railgun HAV.

I totally agree with you on Swarm Launcher changes especially that we already have weapon that can replace it and it requires real-skill to use it. Beside that I think that ADS should have a passive bonus to weapons range on it, or I would split them on two kind: 1 - ASG that is very fast and have close range weapons, 2 - ASG that have current speed and have long range weapons.

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dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 106	Posted - 2013.05.19 22:15:00 - [1] - Quote factor 1. Enemy railgun tank in red zone = assault dropship total useless. I cant do anything on battlefield coz this tank destroy me in two shots in any distance, and i cant destroy tank coz redzone dont let me it. Two railgun tanks - while i TRY to destroy one (and its hard enough for me) - second will destroy me. factor 2. One enemy advanced swarm launcher (SL) = assault dropship total useless. I cant do anything on battlefield coz this guy sneak somewhere and distance he can lock me too big. They shoot faster than i can sneak somewhere, and all my modules useless. It seems: i come to battlefield, i got damage by swarm launcher, i enabled all active modules to damage resist and shield restore, begin to move to safe place, got second shot from SL and pray i will find building for sneak before 3rd swarm shot. Most skirmish maps have not so many buildings. 2-3 enemy with militia SL do like one advanced SL, let me do nothing but sneak somewhere far away from battlefield. Ok, i see guy with swarm launcher under me in clear field, i begin shoot to him. I must be damned the seer to know way of my prototype rockets, coz factor 5, and i must make direct hit to destroy him (if he have less then 470 HP), or 2-3 splash damage. So no chances do it before him destroy me even in clear field. Advanced SL do 2 shoots, so i cant do anything. I met guy with good SL today, i have no chances to look where he is, have no chances to fly at all. He just made 2 shots and i am dead. My dropship cost 1.5kk ISK, thanks CCP i spent 6kk ISK when tried to just find this guy use my dropship. I failed, i do no one shots to this guy coz i even didnt found where he was, i was dead after 2-4 seconds after my takeoff. factor 3. Turrets is overpowered against dropships too. If anyone use any kind of turret i cant destroy it, i must go to safe place and wait while my team or squad will destroy this turret. And CCP, thanks a lot for turrets in red zone, its great fun try to destroy it, coz it dont let me do anything too. Turrets is no threat for tanks, they destroy turret in 2-3 second. I need 7-8 shots as minimum, its not fair. factor 4. Forge guns, it is not so great threat, but skilled guys can hit me easy enough before i will see them. So this factor bad just coz its not only factor 4, factors 1,2,3,5 exist too every time. factor 5. Shooting from assault dropship - is something special. I did shot rocket in point on ground, and got acceleration to left/right. What the hell, my rocket got same acceleration!!! Stupidest thing. Same with grenades in infantry playing. I did stay, i tossed greanade and after this toss i began strafe.... and what the hell, my grenade strafe in the air too!!!! But my dropship moving every second, i have no time to hover for each shoot. Ok, If enemy dont use factors 1,2,3 and i have time to shooting, i can kill 3-4 noobs per round. When i become better i will kill 6-10 noobs Why noobs? Coz only total noobs cant use factors 1,2 and 3 against me. ==================== So if i am the seer and sharpshooter for my shooting, and my team neutralized factors 3 and 4 - my dropship is still useless coz factor 1 and 2. If enemy team not blocked on base - anyone can get swarm launcher and destroy me everywhere + tanks in red zone + turrets in red zone. Guy in militia equipment have much more chances to survive than assault dropship (1.5kk), too many threats, and no way to resist against all of them. ================= Ways to resolve it: most important Factor 1. Remove red zone for aicraft. As minimum battle field must be twice bigger than now for aicraft. It give chances vs campers in red zone (especially railgun tanks), coz red zone tanking is apparent fraud. most important Factor 2. Just see how made it Dice in battlefield 3. At start they did same fail - too big distance for lock of target for stingers. But they patched it. They did: Small radius locking of target. Stingers cant lock target if target fly "below radars" below 30 meters. And choppers have flares to skip locked rockets. So antiair infantry can defend some zone of ground near one objective if it necessary for tactic, and they cant control entire map. And they need teamwork, coz one guy cant destroy skilled chopper. Now in dust514 - every one, every one not skilled guy - alone guy can annihilate prototype assault dropship in 5 secs, with cheap enough swarm launcher. As example - entire squad have troubles against any prototype tank. factor 3. Reduce the angle of the barrel of turrets - will enough i think. Btw for tanks too, but slightly. Increase aicraft's damage against turrets. factor 4. Need no changes. Just a little buff dropship's HP. if they will withstand two hits of protoforge and railgun tanks - it will fair enough. factor 5. Make shots more predictable if Unreal Engine let it. At least a little more predictable.
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 107	Posted - 2013.05.20 05:37:00 - [2] - Quote minimum pilots is no reason to forget about this thread!!!
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 291	Posted - 2013.05.20 06:28:00 - [3] - Quote Every pilot already knows that CCP hates dropships. Thats why noone post.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1036	Posted - 2013.05.20 07:20:00 - [4] - Quote Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Every pilot already knows that CCP hates dropships. Thats why noone post. Dropships get kicked around so much, heavies feel bad for them.
Theillness HoldSquare Reaper Dynamics 1	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:19:00 - [5] - Quote I am a pilot and I agree that they are weak and need more room than what the map is now to fly, also a higher height cap. I mean seriously, up above us are star ships but the one thing that flies in DUST is a paper plane that can't fly high enough to avoid missile fire? I love flying them though with a good squad though. Because its quick in and out taking objectives. No squad? You're ****** because no one ever gets in and when they do get in no one ever gets out! I have spent 5 min hovering and spinning over an objective that needs taken and this guy is just shooting into the air. >:(
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2013.05.21 00:36:00 - [6] - Quote honestly, i really dont know how i'm so lucky, since... some how i survive swarms. but i do agree, most dropships are decidedly useless when it comes to any battlefeild tactics, especially with these rather tiny maps. Depending on the ship you fly, some turrets can be an issue, but i usually out fly the tracking of a Rail turret/tank, and missles dont hit me in time, so keep mobile when actually dogfighting and you're fine... though without people dropping out to take things, you're still useless, because people just.. sit there, and bounce shots off of your own ship and still upset the physics a little, or you end up flying fast enough to catch your own small missiles in a turn. Swarms are decidedly to me the biggest threat, because unless you fly out of their flight range.. they knock you sideways, hard. with not counter lock equipment, like chaff flares, those fire and forget weapons are going to rip into us... though they should be able to hurt, we should be able to limp back to base and get a fix
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 293	Posted - 2013.05.21 01:01:00 - [7] - Quote The reason the stinger missile system you mentioned works for BF# is because stingers also have a dumbfire option. Swarms do not. That will not work. CCP already stated that countermeasures are coming. I hate to say this, since you DS pilots have done so much of it already, but wait.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 78	Posted - 2013.05.21 17:55:00 - [8] - Quote dalt ud wrote: (...) As Railgun HAV pilot I completely understand your pain. Since this build start just 1 ADS almost killed me, and I killed at least 10 of them with my HAV. Railgun tanks are camping in redline because map is constructed at the shape of the crown - there is now huge mountie at the middle of map where they could spawn their tanks and start camping from there - far, far away from redline. Every current map have mountains at the edge's of map(next to redline). It's like DUST have a lot of content that is planned to work perfectly in they own environmental, fast example: HMG - weapon design for close buildings, or Assault DS with were design for really big maps, same as Railgun HAV. I totally agree with you on Swarm Launcher changes especially that we already have weapon that can replace it and it requires real-skill to use it. Beside that I think that ADS should have a passive bonus to weapons range on it, or I would split them on two kind: 1 - ASG that is very fast and have close range weapons, 2 - ASG that have current speed and have long range weapons.
Mary Sedillo XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 70	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:15:00 - [9] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: dalt ud wrote: (...) As Railgun HAV pilot I completely understand your pain. Since this build start just 1 ADS almost killed me, and I killed at least 10 of them with my HAV. Railgun tanks are camping in redline because map is constructed at the shape of the crown - there is now huge mountie at the middle of map where they could spawn their tanks and start camping from there - far, far away from redline. Every current map have mountains at the edge's of map(next to redline). It's like DUST have a lot of content that is planned to work perfectly in they own environmental, fast example: HMG - weapon design for close buildings, or Assault DS with were design for really big maps, same as Railgun HAV. I totally agree with you on Swarm Launcher changes especially that we already have weapon that can replace it and it requires real-skill to use it. Beside that I think that ADS should have a passive bonus to weapons range on it, or I would split them on two kind: 1 - ASG that is very fast and have close range weapons, 2 - ASG that have current speed and have long range weapons. I love killing tanks by the way with my Assault Dropship. Redline rail tanks do bug me, and if they have a rage hard on for me, I just despawn my ship.
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 187	Posted - 2013.05.30 12:29:00 - [10] - Quote Up thread tanks have alarm signal for mines And dropship must have alarm when swarm launcher begin try to lock me. And frequent beep-beep-beep when rockets follow me.

Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 369	Posted - 2013.05.30 12:42:00 - [11] - Quote While all of the problems mentioned in the OP are valid, most can be dealt with. I do agree that redline installations and redline tanks are a huge problem. I can kill a tank on the field (provided he doesn't bring friends), but I can't do a thing to a tank in the redline. I can kill a turret in the redline, but it takes a lot of effort and sometimes involves me having to run out past the redline and take a few shots, scamper back, and repeat.
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 187	Posted - 2013.05.30 14:58:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah, redzone is most stupid thing. And easiest to fix it :( Balance of aicraft is very important. I understand it. If overbuff ADS - it will OP and will kill everything. What meam ADS is OP? When ADS or DS can survive long time and kill people most of the time. Now - we cant survive, and cant kill many people. Obvious way to balance it - let dropships to survive, but dont let them do too many kills. Best situation when for destroing of dropship enemy team must do some teamplay work, and in same time 1-2 guys with AV weapons dont let ADS kill too many people. And it is not so hard as it seems. Now, if enemy have advanced AV weapons - we have no time for attack anyone, we need to sneak all the time. Its stupid when one guy with weapon cost 70-100k ISK - dont let dropship do anything Forgegun need almost one shot to destroy dropship (cost 1.2kk). Swarm launcher need 2 shots. And both weapons do 2 shots faster then ADS can leave dangerous area. Now dropship have active modules for 30% reduce taken damage . Module for restore shield, and speed module. 1. When i took one enemy hit from advanced SL - i activate this module, module for recharging of shield and speed burst and go away and probably i will survive. 2. If i take hit of proto SL - i wont survive at all. They do second shot too fast for me. 3. If first hit was advanced or proto forgegun - i wont survive. They do second shot too fast for me. 4. If it was railgun tank - i wont survive. They do second shot too fast for me. So i can survive only if enemy have militia swarm launcher, or have really bad aim skill as players. Ok. Enemy have no AV weapons right now. I got 3-4 kills, and skilled enemies got good AV weapon coz pissed off by me. My game as pilot is finished. I have no time for attack anyone, because i take damage before i will kill anyone (they wait me) and die in 70% or must go away. So way for balance it: Give for ADS the modules (one module for reduce 80-90% of damage for 30 sec as example) that will give me capacity to operate on some area of battlefield 30-40 seconds vs 1-3 infantry with AV weapon and will leave this area alive for reload this module. It will seems so: I fly over map, i see group of enemy (with or without good AV weapons - i dont know), i activate modules for 30-40 seconds of surviving. I do 10-20 shots, and i activate speed module for leaving this area for 40-60 seconds of reloading my modules and i still vulnerable for railgun tanks, swarm guys and FG guys who stay in other areas. Even for skilled ADS's gunner/pilot - it one frag per 3 rockets. So if i am great gunner i can kill 4-10 guys per one attack if enemy have no shelters at all. Most of the time they have shelters or inside buildings or walk alone, so it will 2-5 per attack. For each attack i need 2 minuts of time, so 15 minuts of ambush will give me 14-35 frags. It is equal for any skilled infantry guy can kill. In fact here is ideal circumstances, and in real fight ADS will do not so many kills at all. And most great thing - you easy can tuning ADS. If dropships do too many kills - just a little increase reload time. Not work time of module, REOAD time. 30-40 sec active time is constant. 2-5 kills per 40 sec + 60 sec = 14-35 kills per round of ambush 2-5 kills per 40 sec + 70 sec = 12-30 kills per round of ambush 2-5 kills per 40 sec + 80 sec = 10-25 kills per round of ambush I wrote the rough figures to show how easy it for tuning. As i see its only way to right balance of aircraft.
martinofski Les Rebelles A Qc 163	Posted - 2013.05.30 16:07:00 - [13] - Quote I agree something could be done faster than just wait for new countermeasure features. Just increase the HP and speed of the dropships in general for now. When CCP release their stuff for counter measures, just readapt the hp and speed. Simple. Right now a DS pilot need to fly really low not to get hit by every fool in turrets, near a supply depot, respawn point, tanks and whatever else. Even there, there is issue where you get hit by light weapon like the flaylock pistol lol. This small gun flip DS on it's roof like it's pancake. I was in the mood to switch to a DS pilot with my fresh new SP respec SP, but can't do that, because it really is just a useless money pit right now. Tank complain for a reason, but man, DS is so much further down the pile of poo right now. Reducing DS price isn't even a fix to anything.
xSir Campsalotx Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.05.30 21:06:00 - [14] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Martin0 Brancaleone wrote: Every pilot already knows that CCP hates dropships. Thats why noone post. Dropships get kicked around so much, heavies feel bad for them. Lol we can empathize.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 529	Posted - 2013.05.30 21:20:00 - [15] - Quote ok well I did have some fun testing them out and they are speedy little death birds. that's it they are birds, dodging and moving saved mine from HAVs, forge turrets and all other fun AV stuff. now they don't have a lot of tank to them and it takes a bit to use then without spinning around doing nothing. they could use a slight HP buff but otherwise the cost is the biggest thing and the WPs that needs some more balancing to them.
Taurion Bruni Nightingale Logistics Pty Ltd 24	Posted - 2013.05.30 21:25:00 - [16] - Quote I do my best to fly, if I fell endangered to loose my ship, I will recall it instantly. but most of the time I move before the enemy AV can preposition. it's all about tactics my friends
Klivve Cussler S.e.V.e.N. Gentlemen's Agreement 146	Posted - 2013.05.30 22:16:00 - [17] - Quote Taurion Bruni wrote: I do my best to fly, if I fell endangered to loose my ship, I will recall it instantly. but most of the time I move before the enemy AV can preposition. it's all about tactics my friends I agree. The anti-air capabilities of Dust are murderous, but if you keep your speed up and your altitude low, you can survive. You have to hit-and-fade though. The dropship isn't going to survive going toe-to-toe with any sort of heavy gun. Attack from unexpected directions and fade over the horizon before they can responde. Take advantage of the expanded redlines. Air units have a redline expanded on three sides compared to ground units. You can come in from over the redline, hit your target, and disappear over the other redline before a rail turret can slew 180 degrees.
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 191	Posted - 2013.05.31 06:33:00 - [18] - Quote Klivve Cussler wrote: You have to hit-and-fade though. first minute of battle: ADS seek-and-hit - got 1-2 frags second minute of battle: ADS seek-and-hit - got 1-2 frags third minute of battle: some enemies got AV weapons.... all next minuts of battle: ADS fade-and-fade - no-hit-and-fade - try-to-fade-and-die, because have no time for hit at all
dalt ud Vacuum Cleaner. LLC RUST415 199	Posted - 2013.06.07 12:35:00 - [19] - Quote minimum pilots is no reason to forget about this thread!!!
tander09 RISE OF THE EMPIRE The Superpowers 21	Posted - 2013.06.07 12:42:00 - [20] - Quote pilots, wait till fighter comes...infantry will quake in their boots once there released.

CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 117	Posted - 2013.07.18 20:35:00 - [21] - Quote after failing to read all of the walls of text.. i have come up with my solution... give dropships more firepower to fight back with.. and the ability to survive a little more av... of couse ive taken out many derpship with a rail turret.. its hard to hit derpships with a railgun when theres a lagg going around... meduim sized turrets they r in the middle between small and large turrets should be mounted on dropships... this will solve the firepower problem an make it an effective anti tank and anti infantry vehicle... and before ppl start saying that dropships r trasports,not gunships.. let me point out they THEY R THE SAME FREAKING THING! let me make my example. the LAAT gunship from starwars battlefront... fills the same roles, its a dropship with proper firepower...
gargantuise aaron Sanguine Knights 41	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:46:00 - [22] - Quote 1 dropships shouldn't be so expensive for what they are 2 they need bigger turrets 3 they need more turrets 4 they need an auto targeting system for turrets 5 turrets need a better firing area My solution makes them more like air support of today, things go boom when air support is in and that's how it should be
gargantuise aaron Sanguine Knights 41	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:53:00 - [23] - Quote And if dropships are transport vehicle's explain the assault version and why we don't get sp for transport


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